Catholics, why is it necessary to believe that Mary was immaculately conceived?

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Monk Brendan

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For those that don't know what the Immaculate Conception is, it's a Catholic doctrine that Mary was conceived, born, and lived a sinless life. Ignoring the implications this has for whether or not Christ's work was actually necessary, I wonder why Catholics now see this as essential dogma.

I spoke online with a Catholic, albeit a nonpracticing one, about it. Basically it went something like this:

Me: "Why must Mary be seen as sinless when the Apostles never commented on such a matter?"

Them: "If Christ was born sinless, doesn't He require a sinless mother?"

Me: "No, since He was conceived of the Holy Spirit, and is God in the flesh."

Them: "Even so, why would God be born of a sinful woman?"

Me: "Wouldn't that require Mary to be born of a sinless woman also, and on throughout her ancestry, when we know from Matthew's genealogy that that isn't true?"

Them: "Mary was shielded from original sin."

Me: "So it's necessary for Christ to be born of a sinless woman to avoid the taint of original sin, but not Mary? Isn't that placing less limitations on a Human than on God?"

Them: "Let's just drop it, Mary is very special to me."



Now since this person was nonpracticing, I don't trust that I have all the facts. So Catholics, is there something I'm missing here? Why is it so central that Mary be sinless, rather than simply obedient?

I think all Protestants on here should know that the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception does NOT mean that Mary was herself conceived and born virginally.

However, it is significant that in the Greek NT, she is the only one called KEKhITOMENOI. The root of this word is KhARIS, which throughout the NT means "grace".

This is one place where the KJV committee fudged the translation.

Beyond this, I will go no farther. The only Marian doctrine that I will defend on line is that she is truly Theotokos, and her Son is God incarnate.

This is a new enough idea to many Christians.
 
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HeartenedHeart

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Are you saying Mary was never born despite the obvious fact she gave birth to Jesus?
Strange question considering my reply.

Mary was born as any other child after Adam's sin, that is to say through sexual union in marriage between her father (Heli; Luk. 3:23) and mother, and she inherited the same flesh as all children do since Adam's fall, which is to say fallen sinful flesh.

There is nothing 'immaculate' about it.
 
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doctorwho29

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Honestly I've never understood this at all, even when I was Catholic. The Bible says nothing on the Immaculate Conception of Mary nor that she was sinless NOR that she was always a Virgin (Jesus had siblings people). If God could shield Mary from sin, then why not just do the same for all of us? Why the cross?
 
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Monk Brendan

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I will leave Christ aside and ask why Jesus was able to "abide with sinners" on a regular basis?

How do you manage to separate "Jesus" from "Christ"?

This is nothing but the old heresy of Nestorianism.

It was wrong 1600 (or so) years ago, and is STILL wrong today.
 
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Hank77

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We know from scripture that God favored her before she conceived. The word used in Luke is 'charitoo' which is the same word used in Eph.

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

So for me, I see Mary as being 'made accepted/favored/filled with grace, at some point before the conception. But that doesn't say to me that she was born without the nature to sin or that she never sinned or never would sin after Jesus was born.

Above all else, Mary must have been a very special young woman to have been chosen by God to care for, raise, and love as a mother God's very own Son and the Redeemer of the world.
Thank you, Father for Mary and for your Son, Jesus the Christ.
 
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Shimokita

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How do we know Mary was immune ot sin and not just always obedient?

Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium doesn't give us that option. Gabriel referred to Mary as being full of grace, even before she said "yes" to God. It was a part of who she was prior to that moment.

As the New Eve, she necessarily must have been free from the sin of the first Eve (as Eve was born without this sin, obviously). So, we need to rule out the possibility that she had original sin. Gabriel's greeting reinforces this teaching, as she was described as being full of grace (as I already said) before saying yes.

And as far as the Magisterium goes, I have already posted a link to what the Church (founded by Jesus on Peter) has said about her immaculate conception and total freedom from sin.
If Cats is asking whether Mary is impeccable, I do not think the Catholic Church has any formal position on that, although many theologians seems to take that view. The fact that she did not sin is dogma, but whether or not she could have sinned is still an open question, from what I understand.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Honestly I've never understood this at all, even when I was Catholic. The Bible says nothing on the Immaculate Conception of Mary nor that she was sinless NOR that she was always a Virgin (Jesus had siblings people). If God could shield Mary from sin, then why not just do the same for all of us? Why the cross?

Which Bible version do you read? If it truly did not state Mary was a virgin, nobody would suggest that to be true. There are Bibles that call her a "young woman," but they are new versions, not like the originals.
 
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Tutorman

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Honestly I've never understood this at all, even when I was Catholic. The Bible says nothing on the Immaculate Conception of Mary nor that she was sinless NOR that she was always a Virgin (Jesus had siblings people). If God could shield Mary from sin, then why not just do the same for all of us? Why the cross?

Actually it never says they were the Blessed Mothers children.
 
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HeartenedHeart

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Which Bible version do you read? If it truly did not state Mary was a virgin, nobody would suggest that to be true. There are Bibles that call her a "young woman," but they are new versions, not like the originals.
Being a virgin to start with (she was) and the false claim of staying a virgin (error of Rome) are two differing things. Not synonymous.
 
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Tutorman

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Correct, they were Joseph's.

Please do not correct my post, it is against the rules and you will be reported next time. I am sorry your heart harbors so much hate for Traditional Christianity and the Theotokos
 
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doctorwho29

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Actually it never says they were the Blessed Mothers children.
Very strongly implied as she appeared alongside His brothers and sisters. Honestly, either they were hers or Joseph has some explaining to do
 
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HeartenedHeart

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Please do not correct my post, it is against the rules and you will be reported next time. I am sorry your heart harbors so much hate for Traditional Christianity and the Theotokos
Do what evil you will. I will do as I will to correct error.
 
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