OSAS....= is Grace

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Berean
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In your own words, how does one know if they are "truly" born again?
Heart affection towards God, Jesus and His Word and an understanding where it all becomes alive and real, whereas before it was aversion, hiding from, hating or at best a ritual relationship with 'a god'.
 
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Romans 8

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Heart affection towards God, Jesus and His Word and an understanding where it all becomes alive and real, whereas before it was aversion, hiding from, hating or at best a ritual relationship with 'a god'.

I agree with your description. I don't think any of us would be seeking God and attempting to live and learn to be Holy if we weren't born again. It's a process.

Watchman Nee describes being born again as follows:

An excerpt from Watchman Nee's book "Spiritual Man".

Rom 8:10 "But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

” Regeneration is to be born anew, to be born of the divine Spirit in our human spirit with the divine life (John 3:3, 5). The divine Spirit reached us and entered into our spirit to impart the life of God into our spirit. Thus, our spirit was made alive with the divine life. We have a regenerated spirit, a human spirit born of the divine life. By being born of God, we became a child of God (1:12-13). To be born of God is to receive His divine life. Although we are human beings, we are also children of God because we have the divine life in our spirit. Romans 8:16 says, “The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.” We are much blessed to have the assurance that we have been born of God, yet this is only the beginning.
 
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DM25

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IOW, of we don't come around to the OSAS way of thinking we are going to hell.

What was it I said in my last post about how OSAS will try to deceive one into coming over to their side? And this time with the threat of hell.

Care to show us where that is biblical? Or did you make that up as I strongly suspect?
It goes beyond just theology because those who don't believe in Once Saved Always Saved aren't trusting in God to hold them and trusting in the grace of Jesus Christ, that is what makes you go to hell right there. It's the fact that you think your sin or your works will make you lose salvation or that you must maintain salvation. I would say if someone has the theological view you can lose salvation by simply stop believing that doesn't mean they aren't born again probably just immature in the walk because that's wrong too as scripture says we are sealed until the day of redemption and no one can take him away from his hands but that wouldn't be a salvation issue I guess. But if someone says they can lose their salvation over sin or over their works or if they don't ask for forgiveness for a sin, that is definitely a salvation issue because they are not trusting in the grace of Jesus Christ but their works so they are probably not saved.
 
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Berean
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I agree with your description. I don't think any of us would be seeking God and attempting to live and learn to be Holy if we weren't born again. It's a process.



Rom 8:10 "But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

I also like this verse as a description...

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2Co 5:17)
 
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DM25

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I agree with your description. I don't think any of us would be seeking God and attempting to live and learn to be Holy if we weren't born again. It's a process.

Watchman Nee describes being born again as follows:

An excerpt from Watchman Nee's book "Spiritual Man".

Rom 8:10 "But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness."

” Regeneration is to be born anew, to be born of the divine Spirit in our human spirit with the divine life (John 3:3, 5). The divine Spirit reached us and entered into our spirit to impart the life of God into our spirit. Thus, our spirit was made alive with the divine life. We have a regenerated spirit, a human spirit born of the divine life. By being born of God, we became a child of God (1:12-13). To be born of God is to receive His divine life. Although we are human beings, we are also children of God because we have the divine life in our spirit. Romans 8:16 says, “The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God.” We are much blessed to have the assurance that we have been born of God, yet this is only the beginning.
We have a new spirit, but the flesh can and still does sin. To be born again has NOTHING to do with your works, but by the work of Jesus Christ and your faith in that alone. Should we do good works after we are saved? Yes, we should walk in the new spirit not to get saved but because we are already saved and love God, but they will be null and void and "filthy rags" unless you are relying on the grace of Jesus Christ and are secure in your salvation. You aren't justified by your works, plain and simple. We are saved by Jesus alone.
 
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DM25

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I also like this verse as a description...

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2Co 5:17)
Yes we have a new spirit that will live on for eternity. Our flesh, which still sins, will not live on for eternity and that will die.
 
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DM25

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In your own words, how does one know if they are "truly" born again?
To be truly born again one must believe Jesus died on the cross for their sins and that he is Lord and saviour and in him alone you shall have eternal life. This means you have to repent from dead works of the law and religion like the pharisees were told. You have to accept his free gift and not think that anything you do and any of your works affect your salvation, right-standing, justification, and righteousness before God. But that you are only made righteous through Jesus. Those who believe this are truly born again. It's the complete surrendering to Jesus Christ and acceptance of his free gift of grace. Those who boast in their good works and don't talk about what Jesus did on the cross are probably not born again.
 
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Berean
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Yes we have a new spirit that will live on for eternity. Our flesh, which still sins, will not live on for eternity and that will die.
If by 'new' spirit, you mean our old spirit has been quickened through the Blood of Jesus Christ, then I agree.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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I'd say the OSAS's will confront issues with their logic because what do you tell an atheist? An atheist will say "Hitler was catholic, so he still went to heaven after all he did?". OSAS's say "He was not saved to begin with!". There in lies the issue. You can't say OSAS then say someone is not saved since the start then. It makes it look like you don't really know. And to a non-believer it makes christianity look like a joke.

Especially since the bible says when you let Jesus in, you are saved. But you are saying "Oh, that bad person, he never really let Jesus in!". This is why saying OSAS isn't accurate at least appeals more to non-believers. We should be more worried about what OTHER people think instead of what other christians think. The outsiders are the ones we are trying to reach. All the fighting we do amongst each other is why they say christianity is a joke.

Also I'd add that many OSAS's tend to be very aggressive, sarcastic and super "holier than thou". Since that is the case.... maybe you weren't saved to begin with. But like it says in the bible you don't realize it until you stand before Him and He says "Go away, I do not know you!". If you are hurt by this, I am simply going by your logic. See how it doesn't make sense.
 
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Neogaia777

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Is anything required of us on on our part at all...? As far as salvation goes, like trusting in Christ's finished work for example, is that not even something "you have to do or choose or decide" or whatever...? (or at least we have the appearance of such) (that we make choices to that effect, or at all, ect)...

I have had a plan that I'm planning on implementing or was planning on implementing soon, that would involve getting out there and trying to some good or good works, but the Lord spoke to me and asked me "why", "why" I was doing it, ect, not that it wasn't good or a good thing "in and of itself", but He wanted me to know the "danger", of trusting in myself in those own works, ect...

I still plan on doing it or them, but I'm going to take the Lords words and wisdom and warning to heart, that's for sure, when I do or try to do it, ect...

I told Him it was also very much to be out there with Him, and He said He knew that, but, the warning, ect, He said or mentioned... To get out and outside, and not only among people or the public, but to see and get some sun and sunlight and see trees and hills and mountains again, nature, ect, feel and see the wind, ect... Been couped up in here too long, healing up still, and that's what I'm waiting on right now...

God Bless!
 
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DM25

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I'd say the OSAS's will confront issues with their logic because what do you tell an atheist? An atheist will say "Hitler was catholic, so he still went to heaven after all he did?". OSAS's say "He was not saved to begin with!". There in lies the issue. You can't say OSAS then say someone is not saved since the start then. It makes it look like you don't really know. And to a non-believer it makes christianity look like a joke.

Especially since the bible says when you let Jesus in, you are saved. But you are saying "Oh, that bad person, he never really let Jesus in!". This is why saying OSAS isn't accurate at least appeals more to non-believers. We should be more worried about what OTHER people think instead of what other christians think. The outsiders are the ones we are trying to reach. All the fighting we do amongst each other is why they say christianity is a joke.

Also I'd add that many OSAS's tend to be very aggressive, sarcastic and super "holier than thou". Since that is the case.... maybe you weren't saved to begin with. But like it says in the bible you don't realize it until you stand before Him and He says "Go away, I do not know you!". If you are hurt by this, I am simply going by your logic. See how it doesn't make sense.
It's clear you don't understand the gospel and are thinking with your flesh. Our works don't determine our salvation, what Jesus did 2000 years ago is what determines our salvation. You sound like a pharisee. Accepting Jesus Christ's free gift is a beautiful thing and if you come to him he will give you rest... It is clear no one really taught to you the gospel. All you are focused on is sin and works and I can tell by your comments, nothing about what Jesus did for our sin... He died for us because ALL are unrighteous. We can only be made righteous through Jesus.

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
Acts 13:39

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness."
Romans 8:10

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
Romans 10:4
 
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Kenny'sID

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No it's more like (unlike today), God isn't into abortions or infanticide. He promises to finish what He began. It's His work of salvation, not ours.

Then you are saying we don't even have to do good to make to Heaven, and faith only will get us there?
 
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DM25

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Then you are saying we don't even have to do good to make to Heaven, and faith only will get us there?
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Exactly right. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. After we are saved we should do good works, because we love God and want to live in the new man. There are consequences to those who live carnal lives and that is usually early death (earthly consequences and loss of rewards in heaven). We should do good works because we are already saved, and do them by relying on his grace, and resting in Jesus Christ. We should do good works to be as a witness to other people and to represent Jesus Christ. We should do it to have joy in our walk in him. We should do it out of love for him because we have a relationship with him... But it has nothing to do with salvation, because you are already saved by the finished work of Christ. But rather sanctification and discipleship. :)
 
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Kenny'sID

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Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I wait for a more direct answer from whom the question was posed to, a yes or no maybe, then I'll comment on yours.
 
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DM25

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Are you required not to do evil in order to get to heaven?
If by doing evil you mean denying the gospel of Jesus Christ, then yes. That's the only sin that leads you to hell. We are ALL evil and that came from the fall of Adam, we all fall short of the glory of God and don't meet his standard of perfection. We are only made righteous through Jesus Christ. We are made perfect in Jesus, even though our flesh will never be perfect. Only when we get glorified bodies will we have a perfect flesh. You can try to refrain from evil to make it to heaven, and you can try to work your way to heaven, but the bible says it's impossible: Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" which is why you must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ because only in him you may be declared righteous.
 
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Kenny'sID

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If by doing evil you mean denying the gospel of Jesus Christ, then yes. That's the only sin that leads you to hell. We are ALL evil and that came from the fall of Adam, we all fall short of the glory of God and don't meet his standard of perfection. We are only made righteous through Jesus Christ. We are made perfect in Jesus, even though our flesh will never be perfect. Only when we get glorified bodies will we have a perfect flesh.

I mean are you required not to do evil in general, like break some of the commandments as a lifestyle, say living with a spouse instead of marrying, as a quick for instance.

None of these are trick questions, BTW.
 
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Neogaia777

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I'd say the OSAS's will confront issues with their logic because what do you tell an atheist? An atheist will say "Hitler was catholic, so he still went to heaven after all he did?". OSAS's say "He was not saved to begin with!". There in lies the issue. You can't say OSAS then say someone is not saved since the start then. It makes it look like you don't really know. And to a non-believer it makes christianity look like a joke.

Especially since the bible says when you let Jesus in, you are saved. But you are saying "Oh, that bad person, he never really let Jesus in!". This is why saying OSAS isn't accurate at least appeals more to non-believers. We should be more worried about what OTHER people think instead of what other christians think. The outsiders are the ones we are trying to reach. All the fighting we do amongst each other is why they say christianity is a joke.

Also I'd add that many OSAS's tend to be very aggressive, sarcastic and super "holier than thou". Since that is the case.... maybe you weren't saved to begin with. But like it says in the bible you don't realize it until you stand before Him and He says "Go away, I do not know you!". If you are hurt by this, I am simply going by your logic. See how it doesn't make sense.
This is a subject I don't know and don't think we either can or even are ever supposed to know, because it is up to God and is between God and that person, alone...

But Men think they are the judges of such things, and therein lies the problem...

So then, what options are we left with, and what do we tell people...? that there is a "chance" they could lose or lose out on their salvation, or whatever, or not (tell them that), or tell them otherwise, or whatever...

I simply tell them I'm not their judge... Is there a chance that they are not saved or whatever, if the subject comes up, I tell them I do not know...? I tell them that only they can answer that (for themselves)... or perhaps they can get that answer but "only for themselves only" from God directly, "if" he chooses to reveal that to them that is...

Take this from the all ever omniscient one's perspective of point of view, if one is a child or one is young, does not that God "already knows" if they are saved or are going to saved in the future, ect, or whatever, or whatnot, and do those terms even apply to Him or have any meaning with Him...? They do not... To Him they are either saved (or going to be saved) (again "terms" that do not apply) anyway, to Him they are either saved or not saved, and He knows and knew this (about everyone) (but you) long before you were ever created or even thought of, to Him or that One, there is no such thing as being saved one time, then losing it at another time, ect, That is our perception and He doesn't, and maybe even "cannot" even, see it that way... From His point of view, one is either saved or they are not... Then you might say or consider, and what if someone has times of periods of faith in their life, and then periods where they did not have faith or were not faithful to the faith, ect, and went back and forth, so to speak, can you judge where they "landed" so to speak...? Well, can you...? Oh, I know "as long as it was before they died" your gonna say now, right...? Well, why does it have to be, or why do they have to be in faith before they die, and that is all that matters...? what if they were faithful most, or if not all of their life, or at many other times in their life, or were faithful most of their life, just not near the end, anyway... Your the judge are you...? And, are you really...?

God Bless!
 
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