Why the collusion myth might destroy the Democrats in 2020

LivingWordUnity

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The end of the Robert Mueller investigation has demolished Democrats' mythology about the 2016 election. That should force them to confront some unpleasant truths about what has happened to their party since President Trump's election — and, more to the point for 2020, it should force enough introspection to prevent a repeat performance.

The idea that Trump colluded with Russia to defeat Hillary Clinton was appealing to many Democrats in the same way any conspiracy theory appeals to the confused: It seemed to explain the inexplicable, with paranoia providing enough elasticity to gloss over any plot holes. The theory's most attractive feature was the near-impossible task of debunking it.

And few realities were more confusing than Trump's win via victories in key Democratic states like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan, all of which went Republican for the first time in decades. How could an uncouth loudmouth like Trump defeat a polished professional like Clinton? Divine intervention — or at least some sort of outside intervention — was the only answer. Real Russian efforts to undermine confidence in the election only fed this confusion.

But as an answer to the inexplicable, the Russia-collusion theory was never airtight. Moscow did meddle in election advertising, but its efforts were surpassingly small in scale and not particularly skillful. A $25 million investment in social media trollery was miniscule in an election in which the major-party candidates and their allies spent nearly two billion dollars. The other Russian intervention — hacking the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign manager John Podesta — was far more significant, but just as distant from the Trump campaign proper.

For two years, Democrats used Russian interference to explain away their loss in 2016. Even as Mueller prepared to send his report to Attorney General William Barr, Democratic leaders like House Intelligence chair Adam Schiff (Calif.) insisted evidence of collusion was already obvious. Former CIA Director John Brennan confidently announced earlier this month that Mueller was about to drop indictments on Trump and his inner circle.

Then Mueller broke the Russia-collusion spell. "The Special Counsel did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts," Barr's summary to Congress declared, "despite multiple offers from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign." No other indictments will be sought. The conspiracy hypothesis for the 2016 election is dead.

This leaves much of the Democratic Party with egg on its face. Credibility in may be a real problem for 2020 — not only for the presidential contenders but also for their organizers and surrogates. A wounded media may be less willing to carry their water on anti-Trump arguments after this burn.

Yet Democrats' biggest problem is the mythology. If Trump didn't play dirty, just how did he beat Clinton? Answering that accurately — a necessity for 2020 strategy — requires facing the truth: Clinton lost because she was a terrible candidate with an unwise campaign focused on identity, entitlement, and the progressive activist agenda. More

Source:
The Week: Why the collusion myth might destroy the Democrats in 2020 (March 26, 2019)
 

thecolorsblend

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The other Russian intervention — hacking the Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign manager John Podesta — was far more significant
It's a little aggravating when people call that a "hack". The Baby Boomer Podesta fell for a phishing scam. That's not a "hack".

Once again, after the Boomers are all gone, the Internet might become a lot safer to use.
 
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His student

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GoldenBoy89

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What we have witnessed for the last 2 years from them (and are still witnessing), with the complicity of the liberal media, is the most shameful episode in modern politics.
No. That would be the current administration.

It is nothing less than the attempted overthrow of a duly elected President.
They should try harder.
 
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Zanting

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It just may destroy their party...investigations into how this all began has already really shaken the democrat party. Although hugely under reported, much has already come out that proves just how badly American citizens have been betrayed by those who did not want an outsider as a leader.

With Trump as POTUS, and even before he became POTUS, what exactly has the democratic party done for their country other than attack your duly elected President and try to destroy him?

Furthermore, it has cost your citizens millions in tax dollars and all it accomplished was making the Mueller team wealthy, so I can certainly understand why so many of your citizens are angry and want justice...many even want that money reimbursed by the democrats.

No collusion (consequently means no obstruction because there was no crime to obstruct, which some people just don't seem to perceive) has shaken up many more in your country and around the world...and the outcome of how this whole thing started will shake up many more.

This also means there is no evidence to support impeaching your POTUS, so if initiated, it...will fail, just like the Mueller report has. This will be even more damaging to the democrat party.

In addition to reaction regarding the outcome of the Mueller report, the democrats pushing their socialist agenda is also very damaging to their party.

It certainly appears that the democrats have a lot to answer for.

Continue praying for unity in your country as more and more comes to light...and may God Bless You all.
 
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KCfromNC

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With Trump as POTUS, and even before he became POTUS, what exactly has the democratic party done for their country other than attack your duly elected President and try to destroy him?

They tend to enact sane economic policies which avoid recessions and reduce deficits. Plus not launch into wars in the middle east.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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What exactly do you think this duly elected administration has done that would justify an overthrow?
Personally, it's the outright disrespect this president has for the office he holds that makes him unfit to hold it, in my view. That alone wouldn't make him impeachable but coupled with his deliberately divisive behavior and his intent to cover up evidence of his potential criminality and willingness to undermine US institutions like the intelligence community as well as the courts and the legislature, even our elections... It all starts to add up to a really poor excuse for a leader.

And so we're clear.. An impeachment isn't an overthrow. It is a legal process provided for within the constitution. No one is under the impression that Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders would be put in Trump's place were he to be removed from office.
 
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whatbogsends

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It just may destroy their party...investigations into how this all began has already really shaken the democrat party. Although hugely under reported, much has already come out that proves just how badly American citizens have been betrayed by those who did not want an outsider as a leader.

With Trump as POTUS, and even before he became POTUS, what exactly has the democratic party done for their country other than attack your duly elected President and try to destroy him?

Furthermore, it has cost your citizens millions in tax dollars and all it accomplished was making the Mueller team wealthy, so I can certainly understand why so many of your citizens are angry and want justice...many even want that money reimbursed by the democrats.

No collusion (consequently means no obstruction because there was no crime to obstruct, which some people just don't seem to perceive) has shaken up many more in your country and around the world...and the outcome of how this whole thing started will shake up many more.

This also means there is no evidence to support impeaching your POTUS, so if initiated, it...will fail, just like the Mueller report has. This will be even more damaging to the democrat party.

In addition to reaction regarding the outcome of the Mueller report, the democrats pushing their socialist agenda is also very damaging to their party.

It certainly appears that the democrats have a lot to answer for.

Continue praying for unity in your country as more and more comes to light...and may God Bless You all.

Plenty of incorrect statements in your post, but i'm focusing on the one I bolded. Not being able to prove a crime doesn't exempt someone from attempts to obstruct justice in the investigation of a crime. If your claim were correct (which it isn't), all it would do would be to incentivize obstruction, as successful obstruction (destroying evidence which would be needed to convict of a crime) would give one a get out of jail pass (literally). Trump clearly attempted to obstruct justice regarding the Mueller investigation (which did, in fact, find criminal behavior, or which "collusion" was never even on the table, as it's not a defined crime).

"No collusion" (which is a false being parroted by the right, what Mueller found was "not enough evidence of criminal conspiracy", there was plenty of activity that could be described as "collusion", which, again, is not illegal) doesn't absolve Trump of obstruction.
 
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Zanting

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Plenty of incorrect statements in your post, but i'm focusing on the one I bolded. Not being able to prove a crime doesn't exempt someone from attempts to obstruct justice in the investigation of a crime. If your claim were correct (which it isn't), all it would do would be to incentivize obstruction, as successful obstruction (destroying evidence which would be needed to convict of a crime) would give one a get out of jail pass (literally). Trump clearly attempted to obstruct justice regarding the Mueller investigation (which did, in fact, find criminal behavior, or which "collusion" was never even on the table, as it's not a defined crime).

"No collusion" (which is a false being parroted by the right, what Mueller found was "not enough evidence of criminal conspiracy", there was plenty of activity that could be described as "collusion", which, again, is not illegal) doesn't absolve Trump of obstruction.

You are correct in that I support the conclusions presented by your AG William Barr et al.

It's ok that you believe my statements are incorrect. You are of the opposing view and will naturally disagree...and that's ok too.

My statements are based on what I perceive is happening in the world, and in your country. And it's why I support the OP's proposal.
 
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CGL1023

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yougottabekidding

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They tend to enact sane economic policies which avoid recessions and reduce deficits. Plus not launch into wars in the middle east.

That made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Obama's kept the US at war longer than Bush and we suffered more casualties during the Obama years than before on two war fronts. Our National debt skyrocketed during Obama.
 
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Speedwell

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That made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Obama's kept the US at war longer than Bush and we suffered more casualties during the Obama years than before on two war fronts. Our National debt skyrocketed during Obama.
Yes, and I'm sure glad that Trump has it under control. ;)
 
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KCfromNC

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That made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Obama's kept the US at war longer than Bush and we suffered more casualties during the Obama years than before on two war fronts. Our National debt skyrocketed during Obama.
Weird you'd ignore who started the Bush2 wars here. Very weird.
 
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DaisyDay

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That made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Obama's kept the US at war longer than Bush and we suffered more casualties during the Obama years than before on two war fronts.
Which goes to show that it's easier to start a war (or two) than end it.

Our National debt skyrocketed during Obama.
Of course, it was to end the Great Recession that started two years before he took office - during a global financial crisis. The United States fared better than nations that took an austerity approach.
 
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childeye 2

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Please consider the semantics we are dealing with. As some have already pointed out, the term collusion is a vague term. Hence when America wonders if there is/was any collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, it is a vague reference to any connections between the Russians and the Trump campaign which not only apply to the campaign interference, but would also seek a common interest to explain why Putin interfered to help Trump win.

The Mueller report on the other hand rejected the term collusion being that it is so broad and not even a term used in law. Mueller used terms such as coordinate and conspire, and more importantly they were narrowly applied to hacking the DNC, putting forth Anti-Hillary propaganda on American social media, and organizing Anti-Hillary rallies.

Mueller concluded that there was no evidence that the Trump campaign officials "knowingly" helped Russia in these three specific categories, hence there was no proof of knowingly coordinating with Russia by the Campaign concerning Hacking, weaponizing social media, and organizing rallies. Some work was done to help Russia by the campaign, such as using hacked materials and helping to organize rallies, but the evidence shows that Russia posed as legitimate Americans to set up the rallies and social media platforms, and despite using the hacked materials to their advantage during the campaign, there was no evidence that the Campaign helped in the actual hacking.

But those three categories are small potatoes so to speak. So when Barr says there was no evidence of collusion in these three categories, he is not being accurate in the broader sense of the term. Because he is omitting the counter intelligence part of the investigation concerning Russia's larger geopolitical purpose, which was to get a foreign policy favorable to Russia out of the Trump administration.

On July 11 2015 the convicted Russian agent Maria Butina is seen at a campaign event asking Trump a question about what he would do about sanctions. And in Trump's response he talks about how he knows Putin, and how he feels that they would and should get along, and that he doesn't think we need sanctions against Russia.

The Mueller report shows that many people in the campaign or associated with Trump were in contact with Russians discussing a new Pro Russian foreign policy for America. There are too many ties to list here, but we know the sanctions were being discussed at the June 2016 Trump tower meeting for example. We know the counter intelligence investigation began in July 2016. We know about the Seychelles meeting. And we know that the transition team was telling the Russians not to talk about it with them until after their cabinet members were confirmed by the senate. We know that the gang of eight were briefed about the counter intelligence investigation in September 2016. And we know that six months into Trump's Presidency the senate voted 98-2, and the house 419-3, to take the power to lift sanctions away from President Trump. I must say that in view of the ongoing Wikileaks connections with Roger Stone, apart from chasing the Steele dossier, the media got it right according to the Mueller report.

I'm not that confident about McClatchy reporting, but the peace plan is reported by McClatchy to have been put together by former Republican Representative Weldon and Ukrainian/New York business developer Rovt. It was said to be Pro Russian in that it allowed Russia to keep Crimea which it annexed in 2014, in exchange for removing forces from eastern Ukraine. The Russians used the IRA to infiltrate and establish themselves in American political social media as early as mid 2014 right after the sanctions were imposed by Australia via the Magnitsky act, but they didn't turn their efforts towards helping Trump win until early 2016. Early 2016 is the exact same time that the peace plan was being put together by Weld and Rovt.
 
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childeye 2

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With Trump as POTUS, and even before he became POTUS, what exactly has the democratic party done for their country other than attack your duly elected President and try to destroy him?
This is a trick question built upon two false premises. First off, if foreign powers use their military cyber capabilities to covertly campaign for their preferred candidate against the other partys nominee, the election is compromised. So to say that Trump was duly elected is already a denial of that reality. Secondly, to investigate the incident is the obligatory responsibility of all Americans so as to protect the legitimacy of our elections, especially our President who does not even acknowledge that Russia interferred. It obviously undermines our Republic and the unity of our Nation if we blame the party that got cheated by portraying the interference as a Democratic attempt to destroy a Republican President.

Without attempting to be cruel, I think everyone should be able to see that. So I am forced to believe that it requires some high level of dishonesty to not admit such an obvious Truth. And that type of dishonesty that would divide a nation to serve one's own personal vanity is on display by the current President every time he tells his blind followers that there was an attempted coup in this country.

Furthermore, it has cost your citizens millions in tax dollars and all it accomplished was making the Mueller team wealthy, so I can certainly understand why so many of your citizens are angry and want justice...many even want that money reimbursed by the democrats.
You're greatly mistaken sir and I wish to inform you why. Not all Americans are so foolish so as to not see that Russia was behind the attacks, and not the Democrats. We who are not so gullible also know that the Mueller investigation came about because of the firing of James Comey the head of the FBI. It is obstruction of justice to impede an investigation by firing someone like the FBI director with the corrupt intent of serving one's own personal self interests.

From the Mueller report:
An improper motive can render an actor’s conduct criminal even when the conduct would otherwise be lawful and within the actor’s authority. See United States v. Cueto, 151 F.3d 620, 631 (7th Cir. 1998) (affirming obstruction conviction of a criminal defense attorney for “litigation-related conduct’); United States v. Cintolo, 818 F.2d 980, 992 (1st Cir. 1987) ("any act by any party — whether lawful or unlawful on its face — may abridge S 1503 if performed with a corrupt motive").

Yet the obstruction-of-justice statutes do not aggrandize power in Congress or usurp executive authority. Instead, they impose a discrete limitation on conduct only when it is taken with the “corrupt” intent to obstruct justice. The obstruction statutes thus would restrict presidential action only by prohibiting the President from acting to obstruct official proceedings for the improper purpose of protecting his own interests. See
Volume II, Section III.A.3, supra.


The appointment of a special counsel investigation was made by a Republican Rod Rosenstein, who was nominated by Donald Trump to be the deputy attorney general of the DOJ. The appointment of a special counsel was necessary because: (1) Upon request of the President, Rosenstein wrote a memorandum describing what he felt were valid reasons why Comey should be replaced. None of them had anything to do with How Comey was handling the Russia investigation. (2) The Whitehouse was publicly claiming that the firing of James Comey was the idea of Rod Rosenstein and also giving false pretenses for the firing. The President wanted Rosenstein to publicly lie and state the same. This left Rosenstein in the position of either compromising his integrity by hiding the fact that it was the Presidents idea and for his personal interest, thus becoming a participant in possible obstruction, or hiring a special counsel because he was now a witness in any potential obstruction case.

Hence if there is anger about the appointment of Mr. Mueller, the person ultimately responsible would be the President, who nominated Rod Rosenstein, had him write the memorandum, and then lied to the country that it was Rosenstein's idea to fire Comey.

No collusion (consequently means no obstruction because there was no crime to obstruct, which some people just don't seem to perceive) has shaken up many more in your country and around the world...and the outcome of how this whole thing started will shake up many more.
Not true on two counts: (1) There indeed was a crime to be obstructed, and that crime was that Russia interfered in our elections on the behalf of one candidate and against the other. (2) You need not be a party to that crime to obstruct the investigation as shown here in Mueller's report: Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations. The incidents were often carried out through one-on-one meetings in which the President sought to use his official power outside of usual channels. These actions ranged from efforts to remove the Special Counsel and to reverse the effect of the Attorney General’s recusal; to the attempted use of official power to limit the scope of the investigation; to direct and indirect contacts with witnesses with the potential to influence their testimony.

Allow me to point out that it would even be illogical to assume that a crime first had to be committed before an investigation into whether a crime was committed is considered legitimate. The very reason we investigate is to determine whether there was a crime committed. Subsequently any obstruction into the investigation which will determine that issue, is a crime.

Attempts and endeavors. Section 1512(c)(2) covers both substantive obstruction offenses and attempts to obstruct justice. Under general principles of attempt law, a person is guilty of an attempt when he has the intent to commit a substantive offense and takes an overt act that constitutes a substantial step towards that goal. See United States v. Resendiz-Ponce, 549 U.S. 102, 106-107 (2007). “[T]he act [must be] substantial, in that it was strongly corroborative of the defendant’s criminal purpose.” United States v. Pratt, 351 F.3d 131, 135 (4th Cir. 2003). While “mere abstract talk” does not suffice, any “concrete and specific” acts that corroborate the defendant’s intent can constitute a “substantial step.” United States v. Irving, 665 F.3d 1184, 1198–1205 (10th Cir. 2011). Thus, “soliciting an innocent agent to engage in conduct constituting an element of the crime” may qualify as a substantial step. Model Penal Code § 5.01(2)(g); see United States v. Lucas, 499 F.3d 769, 781 (8th Cir. 2007).

The omnibus clause of 18 U.S.C. § 1503 prohibits an “endeavor” to obstruct justice, which sweeps more broadly than Section 1512’s attempt provision. See United States v. Sampson, 898 F.3d 287, 302 (2d Cir. 2018); United States v. Leisure, 844 F.2d 1347, 1366-1367 (8th Cir. 1988) (collecting cases). “It is well established that a[n] [obstruction-of-justice] offense is complete when one corruptly endeavors to obstruct or impede the due administration of justice; the prosecution need not prove that the due administration of justice was actually obstructed or impeded.” United States v. Davis, 854 F.3d 1276, 1292 (11th Cir. 2017) (internal quotation marks omitted).

It certainly appears that the democrats have a lot to answer for.

Continue praying for unity in your country as more and more comes to light...and may God Bless You all.
I study semantics sir, and I can assure you that any reasoning based upon falsehood ends in a contradiction. Hence these two statements are at odds because blaming the Democrats for what Russia did is participating in promoting lies that divide our country.
 
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With Trump as POTUS, and even before he became POTUS, what exactly has the democratic party done for their country other than attack your duly elected President and try to destroy him?

Did you pay attention to politics from August 27th 2008 until Jan 20th 2017?

Furthermore, it has cost your citizens millions in tax dollars and all it accomplished was making the Mueller team wealthy, so I can certainly understand why so many of your citizens are angry and want justice...many even want that money reimbursed by the democrats.

Do you have citation for this frankly bizarre assertion?
 
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Do you have citation for this frankly bizarre assertion?
Because there is no better way to make money than leaving your position as a partner in one of the wealthiest law firms in the country to take a government salary.
 
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