If the number is fixed...

Hammster said:

Regardless of whether you are a monergist or synergist, you believe that the number of those who will be saved is a fixed number (open theists need not participate since it’s considered unorthodox theology).

So if that’s the case, why witness?

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Why toss drowning victims a life line?

Hammster said:

Regardless of whether you are a monergist or synergist, you believe that the number of those who will be saved is a fixed number (open theists need not participate since it’s considered unorthodox theology).

So if that’s the case, why witness?

Click to expand...

The number is not fixed. We are told in both the old and new testaments that the book of life is being written, and that names may be blotted out.

Hammster said:

Regardless of whether you are a monergist or synergist, you believe that the number of those who will be saved is a fixed number (open theists need not participate since it’s considered unorthodox theology).

So if that’s the case, why witness?

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Because Jesus told us to.

Hammster said:

So God doesn’t know?

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I don't know. I don't claim to know the mind of God and I do not dare limit Him.

If we draw our knowledge of God from the bible, we cannot say that the number is fixed.

Hammster said:

This thread is for those who believe that God does indeed know all things; past, present, and future. Open theism, which believes that God doesn’t know the future, is an unorthodox view and cannot be discussed in the Christian Only area.

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God would also know that if no one were to witness to a particular person that person would not have come to Christ. Therefore, Christ telling us to witness was purposeful not just a whimsical order.

Probably not what this thread is about, but every now and then I run into some groups that believe in Small Heaven (like only 144,000 saved), and they try to witness to me. "Don't you realize, that if you succeed," I say, "that I'll be bumping someone else?" (maybe You, is implied Also with a Small Heaven, there's already been a lot of history - the seats are likely already filled with some pretty high quality individuals

The thread made me think of this song though, it's one of my favorite secular prayer songs - enjoy and happy Easter


I like this one too


"When there's no where else to run, is there room for one more son?"

Hammster said:

Regardless of whether you are a monergist or synergist, you believe that the number of those who will be saved is a fixed number (open theists need not participate since it’s considered unorthodox theology).

So if that’s the case, why witness?

Click to expand...

Acts 18:

9And the Lord said to Paul in the night by a vision, “Do not be afraid any longer, but go on speaking and do not be silent; 10for I am with you, and no man will attack you in order to harm you, for I have many people in this city.” 11And he settled therea year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

Hammster said:

Regardless of whether you are a monergist or synergist, you believe that the number of those who will be saved is a fixed number (open theists need not participate since it’s considered unorthodox theology).

So if that’s the case, why witness?

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, it is the case, the omniscience and immutability of God tells me so.

On witnessing, I'm a fan of this quote;

"Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words." - Francis of Assisi

Hammster said:

I’m not a fan of that because it indicates that there’s some other way to preach the gospel.

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I think the quote is more from the perspective of witnessing by example of Christian living, preaching the Gospel indirectly rather than preaching the Gospel directly. In other words, living for Christ in such a way others start asking questions like; "why you so different?" Glad you asked; Christ, he makes all the difference. Would you like to know more? That kind of thing. It's a weird experience when people verbally express knowing you're Christian when you've not spoken a word on the subject. The quote reminds me of the quote; "actions speak louder than words", and there's much truth to that. Talk about God, talk about regeneration, but until a person actually experiences the monergistic action of God in regeneration, it is words. Preach the Gospel, but until the providence of God intervenes, it's preaching to the choir, which is also good, as I need the Gospel every day.

HTacianas said:

The number is not fixed. We are told in both the old and new testaments that the book of life is being written, and that names may be blotted out.

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Could you point out those scriptures for us please? Thanks.

His student said:

Could you point out those scriptures for us please?

Thanks.

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Exo 32:33 - And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rev 3:5 - He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

HTacianas said:

If we draw our knowledge of God from the bible, we cannot say that the number is fixed.

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If we believe in the omniscience of God, as we should, we cannot believe other than that the number is fixed and always has been.

But we hardly need to limit such things to the number of people that will be saved and lost.

If we believe in the omniscience of God we cannot believe other than that everything that takes place in the history of the world was predestined from before the foundation of the world.

Hammster said:

The reason I brought this up is that there’s commonly an accusation against those who hold to the Reformed Theology view of election that there’s no need to witness since God is just going to elect whomever. However, whether synergist or monergist, there’s still a fixed number. And the primary way for that number to be achieved is the proclamation of the gospel.

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Exactly so - just as most Reformed theologians have always said, "God uses means to bring to pass what He has predestined."

In this case the means is the proclamation of the gospel to the world and the resultant exercise of saving faith by individuals.

Even the most hard core Calvinist does not believe that election in and of itself saves anyone.

Although you and I were elect long before we believed - we were both "enemies of God" and "children of wrath" up until such time as the gospel was preached to us and we believed and were justified through that faith.

Hammster said:

Regardless of whether you are a monergist or synergist, you believe that the number of those who will be saved is a fixed number (open theists need not participate since it’s considered unorthodox theology).

So if that’s the case, why witness?

Click to expand...

Are you asking if the number is fixed or if it's determined? Couldn't God know the number without determining the it? I would submit that it's not the number, but rather the time that is determined.