Buddhism books: throw, recycle, donate, pass on, burn?

samwise gamgee · Apr 20, 2019

Cis.jd said:
Believing in Jesus alone doesn't get you to heaven, many verses have shown that. Even in the book of Revelation, God judged the dead based on their works.

That depends on what kind of belief you are talking about. Just believing that certain facts are true won't save you. Even Satan believes that the Bible is true. The belief that saves involves a personal acknowledgement that we deserve condemnation and that Jesus has taken our sins and atoned for them. That faith will produce good works in our lives and we will be rewarded for those works but the works themselves do not all anything to our salvation.

Let's look at what the book of Revelation says about being judged for our works.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15 ESV

Whether or not a person will be thrown into the lake of fire will depend on whether his name is written in the book of life, not by his works. So why are his works judged? The only reason possible is to determine the degree of punishment he suffers. Even the good works of the lost will be rewarded by reducing the severity of their suffering in the lake of fire.

DM25 · Apr 20, 2019

Cis.jd said:
Not really. Believing in Jesus alone doesn't get you to heaven, many verses have shown that. Even in the book of Revelation, God judged the dead based on their works. There have been countless christians whose views were completely atrocious compared to other religoins, and they are just to blame for why Christ has been rejected because the way they represented the religion is something no sane person would want.

No... Believing DOES get you to heaven alone... Anyone who thinks works are added take the bible out of context. Revelation? Revelation is a symbolic book. The book of James talks about how to treat your brethren. And 1 John talks about how to have joy in your walk. NONE explain how to get saved, that's already established in the gospel in Romans, John, and Acts. Yes it is faith alone. And anyone who believes otherwise is not truly born again. That's what makes Christianity unique. Otherwise you are simply religious, and may as well be Buddhist. But Jesus is the narrow way, not your works. I know I am going to heaven because I believe in what he did for me on the cross, not what I do.

DM25 · Apr 20, 2019

samwise gamgee said:
That depends on what kind of belief you are talking about. Just believing that certain facts are true won't save you. Even Satan believes that the Bible is true. The belief that saves involves a personal acknowledgement that we deserve condemnation and that Jesus has taken our sins and atoned for them. That faith will produce good works in our lives and we will be rewarded for those works but the works themselves do not all anything to our salvation.

Let's look at what the book of Revelation says about being judged for our works.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15 ESV

Whether or not a person will be thrown into the lake of fire will depend on whether his name is written in the book of life, not by his works. So why are his works judged? The only reason possible is to determine the degree of punishment he suffers. Even the good works of the lost will be rewarded by reducing the severity of their suffering in the lake of fire.

Wrong. You must believe Jesus died for your sins alone and that saves you, not your works. This is the gospel. If you don't believe it, you are not born again. There's no easier way of saying it. Grace is a free gift, and you must believe that otherwise you will perish alone with all other religions.

RaymondG · Apr 20, 2019

DM25 said:
Wrong. You must believe Jesus died for your sins alone and that saves you, not your works. This is the gospel. If you don't believe it, you are not born again. There's no easier way of saying it. Grace is a free gift, and you must believe that otherwise you will perish alone with all other religions.

Almost.....look at this text:
"16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

First, it say believe and baptized.....as oppose to only believing, as you suggest. And you can tell that one has done this by the signs that follow them..... Are you able to lay hands on the sick and have them recover? Or cast out devil? If these sign do not follow you then...........

Cis.jd · Apr 20, 2019

DM25 said:
No... Believing DOES get you to heaven alone... Anyone who thinks works are added take the bible out of context. Revelation? Revelation is a symbolic book. The book of James talks about how to treat your brethren. And 1 John talks about how to have joy in your walk. NONE explain how to get saved, that's already established in the gospel in Romans, John, and Acts. Yes it is faith alone. And anyone who believes otherwise is not truly born again. That's what makes Christianity unique. Otherwise you are simply religious, and may as well be Buddhist. But Jesus is the narrow way, not your works. I know I am going to heaven because I believe in what he did for me on the cross, not what I do.

No. What you are describing doesn't making Christianity unique, it makes it irrational and also a bad religion since anything good or anything bad is nearly meaningless because the only thing that is defined is good is just believing. We can argue all day about what verses say this and that, so lets bringing in some actual reason.

Since I believe in God, and i believe in all the Jesus stuff. Can i know touch everyday anytime i want while watching inappropriate content? I mean technically, my works don't matter right.. all i need is faith alone. So even if this activity is a sin, i'm still going to heaven anyway.

How about the jews in the nazi camps. The majority of them didn't believe in Jesus, yet the majority of Germans believe in Jesus. So does a Nazi go instantly to heaven over the 5 year old non-believing jew he burned in an oven?

section9+1 · Apr 20, 2019

Cis.jd said:
Opinions and feelings? More like reason and facts. The bible can't be contradicted but it can't be mistaken to be the an answer for every circumstance. If that is the case then why would God give humans the ability known as wisdom? Specific passages in the Bible may not be the best answer on specific circumstance and we can't just lop everything "non-Jesus" as automatically evil.

You are no judge of rightness. None of us really are, but at least some of us are trying to follow the author of rightness to the best we can. If another religion offers an alternative righteousness in place of Christ, it is automatically evil. If you are not doing your best to understand and follow Christ, your reason is foolishness and your wisdom is worthless. Don't rely on reason and wisdom alone, because if it is not sourced in Christ you are nothing but a clever devil.

DM25 · Apr 20, 2019

RaymondG said:
Almost.....look at this text:
"16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

First, it say believe and baptized.....as oppose to only believing, as you suggest. And you can tell that one has done this by the signs that follow them..... Are you able to lay hands on the sick and have them recover? Or cast out devil? If these sign do not follow you then...........

I don't want to veer off the topic of this thread, but I explained those verses before, and believe me it's now what you think. Please look into it. The gospel is not hard to understand.

DM25 · Apr 20, 2019

Cis.jd said:
No. What you are describing doesn't making Christianity unique, it makes it irrational and also a bad religion since anything good or anything bad is nearly meaningless because the only thing that is defined is good is just believing. We can argue all day about what verses say this and that, so lets bringing in some actual reason.

Since I believe in God, and i believe in all the Jesus stuff. Can i know touch everyday anytime i want while watching inappropriate content? I mean technically, my works don't matter right.. all i need is faith alone. So even if this activity is a sin, i'm still going to heaven anyway.

How about the jews in the nazi camps. The majority of them didn't believe in Jesus, yet the majority of Germans believe in Jesus. So does a Nazi go instantly to heaven over the 5 year old non-believing jew he burned in an oven?

Yes it does that's why Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with God.

Cis.jd · Apr 20, 2019

section9+1 said:
You are no judge of rightness. None of us really are, but at least some of us are trying to follow the author of rightness to the best we can. If another religion offers an alternative righteousness in place of Christ, it is automatically evil. If you are not doing your best to understand and follow Christ, your reason is foolishness and your wisdom is worthless. Don't rely on reason and wisdom alone, because if it is not sourced in Christ you are nothing but a clever devil.

How can you justify your views on what the scripture says if it is completely senseless? You need to apply reason and wisdom on the beliefs you produce from your interpretation, that is one way we can determine whether it is you who is flawed or not. You are indirectly saying that faith in christ is supposed to be stupid.

DM25 said:
Yes it does that's why Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with God.

Good job dodging my questions at the bottom. As i've said so many times, whenever examples are given they are always ignored. There is no way you speak of God just by how anti-intellectual your engage is.
If you are telling me that my salvation and all that is good is just believing in God, then all sins are logically good due to no penalty at all. If your views on what makes a person evil is due to his knowledge or ignorance on God's existence, then you disqualify any future arguments you have with atheists or any non christian on morality.

RaymondG · Apr 20, 2019

DM25 said:
I don't want to veer off the topic of this thread, but I explained those verses before, and believe me it's now what you think. Please look into it. The gospel is not hard to understand.

I get it. If a verse doesn't agree with what we believe.......reinterpret it until it does.

section9+1 · Apr 21, 2019

Cis.jd said:
How can you justify your views on what the scripture says if it is completely senseless? You need to apply reason and wisdom on the beliefs you produce from your interpretation, that is one way we can determine whether it is you who is flawed or not. You are indirectly saying that faith in christ is supposed to be stupid.

I don't understand all verses, but I believe them to be true. I realize the fault is mine. But I haven't found any verses to be senseless. If you are honest with it the bible will change you. You cannot just incorporate God's word into your old carnal self. If you do, you will be worse off than if you never read it all. The more you grow, the more things fall into place. All passages of the bible must be dealt with. But this is about Buddhist books and since all wisdom and understanding comes from God and these books do not, then they cannot be considered to be a viable path to righteousness. We know for sure that if the books are destroyed, their impact will cease. We cannot stop Buddhism any more that we can stop world hunger, but we can burn one book and we can feed one person.

Cis.jd · Apr 21, 2019

section9+1 said:
I don't understand all verses, but I believe them to be true. I realize the fault is mine. But I haven't found any verses to be senseless. If you are honest with it the bible will change you. You cannot just incorporate God's word into your old carnal self. If you do, you will be worse off than if you never read it all. The more you grow, the more things fall into place. All passages of the bible must be dealt with. But this is about Buddhist books and since all wisdom and understanding comes from God and these books do not, then they cannot be considered to be a viable path to righteousness. We know for sure that if the books are destroyed, their impact will cease. We cannot stop Buddhism any more that we can stop world hunger, but we can burn one book and we can feed one person.

I am not saying the verses are senseless, i am saying they are being interpreted wrong and one way to know is by how senseless the person is. If you are so sure about yourself and this "knowledge" you have about how non-believers are completely evil-hell worthy and that it is all about believing in Jesus that makes someone good, then you should have no problem making any rational arguments.

These buddhist books originate in asia, probably the same or a bit older than the Bible. There was no way that they could have known the God of Israel during that time. If we talk about our present time, why would they want to believe in the God of Israel just based off the attitudes and behaviors of his believers? You know to them, their book doesn't tell them that people with different beliefs are going to suffer unimaginable torment for eternity. Their book just tells them to live in peace and not even hurt a cockroach. It's rather evident that the Bible is actually doing you more wrong than a Buddhist book is if you yourself can't determine right from wrong on this burning of books.

Petros2015 · Apr 21, 2019

Cis.jd said:
You know to them, their book doesn't tell them that people with different beliefs are going to suffer unimaginable torment for eternity. Their book just tells them to live in peace and not even hurt a cockroach. It's rather evident that the Bible is actually doing you more wrong than a Buddhist book is if you yourself can't determine right from wrong on this burning of books.

To be fair, the Buddhists have *a lot* of books. I dated a Buddhist for a little while, so that's how I got to know a bit about it, and came across the Dhammapada on my own prior. Other books written in contemporary times like "How to Love" are also very good and worthwhile for anyone. Just taking the Dhammapada, I would say that something like 95% is completely compatible with Christ's teachings. Not bad for 500 B.C. The woman I dated, I really admired her compassion and love and respect for life. While we were sitting outside at a coffee shop, a mosquito landed on her hand. She quietly raised it up and watched it, and then let it live and fly about it's way.

In practice though, *outside* of books and verses and reading and compassion, I found that the expression of it seemed (to me) cult-like. Her branch of Buddhism was Tibetan. Her lama regarded herself as the reincarnation of a former buddhist lama and there was an element of submission and reverence in the relationship that made me very uncomfortable. The temple monastery that she attended was full of idols and new-age like crystals and buddhas both historical and imaginative. Some icons were of 'wraithful buddhas' surrounded in flames with human skulls adorning their staves or garments. There was always some explanation as to their appearence. They were encouraged to make chants to these in non-english languages, but not told what the chants actually meant... all of this made me increasingly uncomfortable over time. I was listening repeatedly to 1 John at the time, which at the end, very quickly and succinctly and suddenly says 'dear children, keep yourselves from idols'.

And so, I ended the relationship, mostly for that reason. It wasn't going to be compatible with my Christian faith

There tends to be a lot of difference between what a religion is, and how a religion is expressed. Setting aside the expressions of Christianity and Buddhism, what I might say is 'the Bible is the box that Christians put God in' vs Buddhism which starts with a box, and (I think) has the goal of slowly over time emptying everything out. The successful Buddhist at the end, holds up an empty box and says 'behold God'.

If you set aside the idol worship, the actual practice of the emptying is *not* a bad thing (there are plenty of bad things and material attachments that Christians and Buddhists alike need to empty themselves of); the actual practice of compassion, never a bad thing.

But anyway, that's my experience. There is a lot of overlap, but eventually the two diverge at some very significant points. Most of the divergence comes in the actual practice and organization of the religion and less in the spiritual goals of the teachings.

Cis.jd · Apr 21, 2019

Petros2015 said:
To be fair, the Buddhists have *a lot* of books. I dated a Buddhist for a little while, so that's how I got to know a bit about it, and came across the Dhammapada on my own prior. Other books written in contemporary times like "How to Love" are also very good and worthwhile for anyone. Just taking the Dhammapada, I would say that something like 95% is completely compatible with Christ's teachings. Not bad for 500 B.C. The woman I dated, I really admired her compassion and love and respect for life. While we were sitting outside at a coffee shop, a mosquito landed on her hand. She quietly raised it up and watched it, and then let it live and fly about it's way.

In practice though, *outside* of books and verses and reading and compassion, I found that the expression of it seemed (to me) cult-like. Her branch of Buddhism was Tibetan. Her lama regarded herself as the reincarnation of a former buddhist lama and there was an element of submission and reverence in the relationship that made me very uncomfortable. The temple monastery that she attended was full of idols and new-age like crystals and buddhas both historical and imaginative. Some icons were of 'wraithful buddhas' surrounded in flames with human skulls adorning their staves or garments. There was always some explanation as to their appearence. They were encouraged to make chants to these in non-english languages, but not told what the chants actually meant... all of this made me increasingly uncomfortable over time. I was listening repeatedly to 1 John at the time, which at the end, very quickly and succinctly and suddenly says 'dear children, keep yourselves from idols'.

And so, I ended the relationship, mostly for that reason. It wasn't going to be compatible with my Christian faith

There tends to be a lot of difference between what a religion is, and how a religion is expressed. Setting aside the expressions of Christianity and Buddhism, what I might say is 'the Bible is the box that Christians put God in' vs Buddhism which starts with a box, and (I think) has the goal of slowly over time emptying everything out. The successful Buddhist at the end, holds up an empty box and says 'behold God'.

If you set aside the idol worship, the actual practice of the emptying is *not* a bad thing (there are plenty of bad things and material attachments that Christians and Buddhists alike need to empty themselves of); the actual practice of compassion, never a bad thing.

But anyway, that's my experience. There is a lot of overlap, but eventually the two diverge at some very significant points. Most of the divergence comes in the actual practice and organization of the religion and less in the spiritual goals of the teachings.

My main point is that If I was a non-christian and non-buddhist there is no way I would ever see the Christian God to be good just based on his christians. If they can't determine that desecrating someone elses beliefs is wrong and have no desire to even be thinkers then there is no way anybody would want to worship the christian God, regardless of him being true. As Christians, we should show that God is a God who can be light to your "darkness", not some kim jong of the skies whose only care is that you submit to him and his insecurities.

Petros2015 · Apr 21, 2019

Cis.jd said:
If I was a non-christian and non-buddhist there is no way I would ever see the Christian God to be good just based on his christians.

Hmm. Yes I can see that might be a problem. Well then, I guess you and I will have to try to be the exception to the rule?

samwise gamgee · Apr 21, 2019

DM25 said:
You must believe Jesus died for your sins alone and that saves you, not your works.

Belief alone saves you but the kind of belief that brings salvation changes you so that you will do good works. Good works are the result of salvation, not the means of acquiring it.

Cis.jd said:
the majority of Germans believe in Jesus

But what kind of belief did they have? Most at least had an intellectual belief in the fact that Jesus died and rose from the dead but the belief that saves includes repentance of your own sins and the belief that Jesus died for you personally. As I pointed out above saving faith will show itself in how you live and the Nazis showed by what they did that they were not saved.

Kerensa · Apr 21, 2019

Cis.jd said:
My main point is that If I was a non-christian and non-buddhist there is no way I would ever see the Christian God to be good just based on his christians.

Funny, that's almost exactly what Gandhi said (as I quoted earlier).

Cis.jd said:
If they can't determine that desecrating someone elses beliefs is wrong and have no desire to even be thinkers then there is no way anybody would want to worship the christian God, regardless of him being true.

Yes, exactly. You're not going to "stop one person" from becoming Buddhist by burning Buddhist books. You're just going to scream loud and clear to the world that Christianity is a religion that no thoughtful, sensible, compassionate, broad-minded person would want to touch with a bargepole.

Have a think about that. If you seriously believe that all non-Christians are doomed to burn in hell forever just because they didn't accept (your version of) Christianity, that effect of book-burning should get you very worried indeed.

samwise gamgee · Apr 21, 2019

Kerensa said:
You're not going to "stop one person" from becoming Buddhist by burning Buddhist books.

How do you know you aren't? You have no idea who will read those books and what effect they will have.

Kerensa · Apr 21, 2019

samwise gamgee said:
How do you know you aren't? You have no idea who will read those books and what effect they will have.

Did you read the rest of my post?

samwise gamgee · Apr 21, 2019

Kerensa said:
Did you read the rest of my post?

Yes.

Buddhism books: throw, recycle, donate, pass on, burn?

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