Is it impossible to lose your salvation?

MDC said:

The doctrine of losing eternal life in Christ is a doctrine held by most professing Christianity of all stripes. It is those who hold to this doctrine and many other self righteous doctrines, who look their works as the grounds for justification. Welcome to the club

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Eternal IN-security (losing salvation) is held by numerous false religions and cults that teach salvation by works and profess to be Christian, which has always been a red flag for me. I was born and raised in such a false religion.

HTacianas said:

If a person could not fall away, the writer to the Hebrews would not have warned them in such stern terms to avoid it:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those bBut we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.y whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;

Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.

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I've heard three different interpretations of Hebrews 6:4-6 (lost salvation view, never truly saved to begin with view, hypothetical view) but am not convinced that the writer of Hebrews is teaching that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation."

Elsewhere in Hebrews 4:2-3, we read: For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have BELIEVED do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. *Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between "us" who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and "them" who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

In Hebrews 10:39, we read - But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

In Hebrews 12:15, we read - See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God.. (NASB) The NIV reads - ..falls short of the grace of God. The ESV reads - ..fails to obtain the grace of God.

Danthemailman said:

I've heard three different interpretations of Hebrews 6:4-6 (lost salvation view, never truly saved to begin with view, hypothetical view) but am not convinced that the writer of Hebrews is teaching that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation."

Elsewhere in Hebrews 4:2-3, we read: For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have BELIEVED do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. *Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between "us" who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and "them" who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

In Hebrews 10:39, we read - But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

In Hebrews 12:15, we read - See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God.. (NASB) The NIV reads - ..falls short of the grace of God. The ESV reads - ..fails to obtain the grace of God.

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Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

Have a look at this:

Can an unsaved person receive the Holy Spirit?

HTacianas said:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,

Have a look at this:

Can an unsaved person receive the Holy Spirit?

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I've heard these arguments before. Have a look at this:

Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?
Hebrews 6:4-5 Commentary | Precept Austin

Kenny'sID said:

Judging from the way yiu worded that, it appears you have a pint you want to make, more so than a question. If you would please, make the point first, and I'll comment on it.

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sure.
repentance is an english word not in use during the time of Christ.
english was not created at babel by God but by peolpe with lets say not the best intentions.
repentance in our culture has a works backing to it. tell God your sorry and do your best to never do it again is this scriptural.
side note just so we stay on topic-confession of sin is great before God but we are not to be hypocritical before the Lord as in matthew 15:21-28 as the Lord would not deal with her till she quite trying to present herself as a jew but as a gentile.
repentance translated in greek is metanoia which means change of mind ok so lets add it in.
matthew 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, "CHANGE YOUR MIND, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."
luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to CHANGE OF MIND.

i could go on and on with this but we are to bring our thinking into alignment with the thinking of Gods that is repentance and that only. so faith and faith alone is to be in his finished work. its a mind and heart change and not works. a work would be trying to change your own behavior by trying to discipline ones self to not do a particular sin, this will never produce the fruit we desire because we as fallen beings and are incapable of overcoming sin. the Lord has overcomed and him only, so our repentance is accepting that grace which he has provided as a free gift and believing on it.

me personally in repentance.
lets say i have a sin i'm dealing with lust,addiction whatever if i try to stop just by disciplining myself it does not stop but sometimes even gets worse (if people are honest they will admit that is is true) but i know when i say Lord Jesus you do not have an issue with lust and as you are in heaven so am i in this world(for the kingdom heaven has come near) now my trust is in the one who has overcome and that sin diminishes and is dealt with by the master. the kingdom is Christ the word fully God and man. that is repentance.

john 10:28-29
Jesus gives them eternal life not by works but by faith or that mind set in who he is and no one can snatch them out of the fathers hand.
ephesians 2:8-9
we are saved by grace it is a gift and not by works.
ephesians 1:13
included in Christ upon hearing the gospel of salvation (faith through metanoia) and are marked with a seal.
revelation 3:5
how are we victorious through works of trying or by faith through metanoia. and are names will never be blotted out why? because we can never earn what is a free gift so how could we lose it. once he owns you he owns you and will complete that work in you because that is his purpose not ours. once again we do good works because he first loved us but those good works can never add to or assist in the salvation process because you and i can not save ourselves so when we try to it is a slap in the face of the one who paid the price.

Kenny'sID said:

I wasn't sure what you were saying there.

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i am osac and people on the other side will not answer my questions or scriptures i put forward as a whole but i try to answer whatever people ask me to the best of my ability.

just a side note when the priest would perform the blood sacrifice it was for the coming years sins not for the previous years sins. Christ being our high priest has cleansed us who are in faith with him for past present and future sins.

Danthemailman said:

What did I make up? In John 6:64, Jesus clearly stated that there are some of you who do not believe and Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe and who would betray Him.

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The questiyis the beginning of what? The obvious answer is the beginning of his betrayed.
Jesus himself talked about those who believe FOR A TIME.

Also, in John 13:10-11, when speaking to the 12 disciples, Jesus said you are clean, but not all of you. Jesus knew Judas would betray Him and therefore He said, You are not all clean.

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He knew who had become unclean at that point.

In John 12:4-6, we read that one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, who would betray Him said, "why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?” This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it. Nothing here was mentioned that he "started loving money" as if he previously did not, but that he was a thief!

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No one is born a thief. All thieves become such by choosing at a point on time to steal. Notice that was the end of his ministry, not the beginning.
[quote

]
In Matthew 10:1, we see that Jesus gave His 12 disciples power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. This would include Judas Iscariot, yet Jesus referred to Judas Iscariot as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Him! (John 6:71; 13:10-11). Apparently, Judas believed that Jesus' name has the power to cast out demons but did not truly believe in His name (John 1:12) and become a child of God, but instead was the son of perdition (John 17:12). [/quoted]Judas had become that. The statement in John 6 is after the 70 had left, not the beginning of his ministry. Judas believed truly in his name. He just started to love money more. That’s more likely.

In John 8:31, we read - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine.." Judas did not continue, so apparently, Judas was not truly His disciple.

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So no one can be assured they are a disciple until on deaths doorstep and they see that they indeed had continued.
Is that your position?

Why all the sarcasm, accusations and hostility towards eternal security of the believer?

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Where do I do this?

Danthemailman said:

I've heard these arguments before. Have a look at this:

Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?
Hebrews 6:4-5 Commentary | Precept Austin

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Your first link is to gotquestions.org, a website notorious for being wrong. In this case, they are wrong for the same reason as the second link.

After much wordsmithing, the second link identifies those mentioned in Hebrews 6 as "false believers" and describes them as rejecting the gospel altogether. That cannot possibly be the case because those who do not believe are *never* made partakers in the Holy Spirit. Yet the writer identifies them as just that.

You often see commentaries on Hebrews 6 and 10 labeling them "controversial" and "difficult" and so forth, as those two websites label them. But they are only controversial and difficult for those whose tradition teaches other than what the plain language states.

What level of effort do we have to put it in to be saved? Who decides how much effort? How bad should we feel about doing bad decision xyz? Do the members of this forum decide how hard a christian needs to work to be saved? Does God decide how hard a christian needs to work to be saved? Does Jesus discipline those he loves? Can Jesus discipline or punish Christians in other ways other than having them suffer for eternity. Lets not forget whats at stake.

Dorothy Mae said:

Where do I do this?

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You have your agenda and it's obvious that we will not come to an agreement, but I will answer your question here:

Dorothy Mae said:

You have to make that up about Judas to fit your theology. What else you add is what you hoped happened.

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Dorothy Mae said:

I know the OSAS preachers warm the hearts of their followers by telling them they are better than others because they just trust Christ and everyone else who does good to the world is trusting in their works, but it is not true. Makes OSASer feel righteous, I know, but it is not true.

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Dorothy Mae said:

It is hard for those who want to love no one but themselves to admit that Christ bids a man to follow him leaving behind many worldly pleasures. OSAS offers salvation and worldly pleasures......or so they think.

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Just to name a few.

HTacianas said:

Your first link is to gotquestions.org, a website notorious for being wrong. In this case, they are wrong for the same reason as the second link.

After much wordsmithing, the second link identifies those mentioned in Hebrews 6 as "false believers" and describes them as rejecting the gospel altogether. That cannot possibly be the case because those who do not believe are *never* made partakers in the Holy Spirit. Yet the writer identifies them as just that.

You often see commentaries on Hebrews 6 and 10 labeling them "controversial" and "difficult" and so forth, as those two websites label them. But they are only controversial and difficult for those whose tradition teaches other than what the plain language states.

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Gotquestions.org is notorious for being wrong? Do you also believe their statement of faith is wrong? - GotQuestions.org Statement of Faith

Like I already said. I've heard three different interpretations of Hebrews 6:4-6 (lost salvation view, never truly saved to begin with view, hypothetical view - as discussed in those links) but am not convinced that the writer of Hebrews is teaching that a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation" and you will NEVER convince me otherwise, but you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.

Danthemailman said:

Eternal IN-security (losing salvation) is held by numerous false religions and cults that teach salvation by works and profess to be Christian, which has always been a red flag for me. I was born and raised in such a false religion.

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I suppose so but can you name some. I know of none. But OSASers claim everyone else does.

Danthemailman said:

You have your agenda and it's obvious that we will not come to an agreement, but I will answer your question here:

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Jesus had an agenda too. I have the same one. That men desire to know the One True God.

Just to name a few.

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You’ll need to edit your post since not a single question was answered. Quoting me shows no sarcasm. I didn’t use any. Maybe you don’t know what sarcasm is. I say plainly what OSASers day, no sarcasm.

Dorothy Mae said:

I suppose so but can you name some. I know of none. But OSASers claim everyone else does.

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You know of none? Really? Here are some. Are you familiar with these "isms?" Catholicism, Mormonism, Campbellism, Adventism..

I wanted to be the first internet jerk to say this cliche "its Easter, lets go and enjoy fellowship with our christian neighbors. We can come back fight it out some other day." Nice i was the first to say it. lol.

Danthemailman said:

You know of none? Really? Here are some. Are you familiar with these "isms?" Catholicism, Mormonism, Campbellism, Adventism..

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We were talking Christians, not cults. Might as well as mentioned Muslims.

Dorothy Mae said:

What a man has faith in matters? Faith in false theology doesn’t count.

If you decide to assure someone they’re not going to hell and you’re wrong, it’s pretty bad.
You’re not the judge.

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Gods word is the judge and that is what i am going off of.

Dorothy Mae said:

I’m very sure your view is not biblical. Jesus told one guy he needed to sell everything and follow him. He told a lot of people to follow him. How come they didn’t need to just have the right thinking?

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prove it then with scripture.
he told him to sell everything because his heart was centered on possessions and not his desire to know the Lord. he approached the Lord in the law so Christ put the law back on him to show him his heart. paul addressed this the law shows us our need for a savior. he walked away because he loved self more than God. what is it to follow it is to come into agreement with the one you are following right so he was asking people to have right thinking. repentance translated in greek is metanoia which means CHANGE YOUR MIND. so CHANGE YOUR MIND for the kingdom of heaven is at hand follow me. follow in what your CHANGED MIND.

Dorothy Mae said:

You respond to that which I didn’t say.
You just make it up.

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ok

Dorothy Mae said:

Never said any such thing.

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notice the words seem and preconceived. i do know that as people who do not believe in osac hold this view. so from the vibe of the posts it seems and i have perceived.

Dorothy Mae said:

No, you respond to what I didn’t say.

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no your words.

your quote- Can you capitalize the first word in your sentences?
yes that is correct, but does your thinking ever not match Christs i know mine does?
Absolutely sure yours does not. You don’t have the interests of God but man.

thank you word police.

Dorothy Mae said:

I just have to point out that the poster here SAYS they are not accusing me but then goes on within the same paragraph of accusing me of tell others they can lose their salvation by not doing works. When did I say that?

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not sure what we are talking about here. here are a couple of your quotes and other posters were involved in response to you so i addressed what you said to them.

Dorothy Mae said:

We can lose our relationship with God losing us any “gift”
or advantage that we had gained.

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Dorothy Mae said:

Sounds like laziness. Where does Jesus promise he is keeping you faith for you and you don’t need to obey, take care, pray, give, love or anything but convince yourself he does it all for you?

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Dorothy Mae said:

AGain, the OSAS blindness of either works salvation or believing one needs do doing as Christ did it all. That is it. That is all you guys know.

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this 2nd quote just above was in post 198 and my response was philippians 4:13 i am going off your own words. good works come by faith. he first loved us. works are not to be offered for salvation. a christian will perform good works but out of love for the master not to earn his own salvation. so there for if you do not perform "works" that will not cancel or remove your salvation.

Dorothy Mae said:

I asked you to answer my questions first.

HEre they are:
Where does Jesus promise he is keeping your faith for you and you don’t need to obey, take care, pray, give, love or do anything but convince yourself he does it all for you?
OSAS thinkers:
They think they cannot fail to go to heaven no matter what they do or fail to do. Do you disagree? Please specify.

So, what do you think I believe about salvation and eternal destiny? What do you think my part is in the matter? I said what I think you think (do nothing but think right) so what do I believe, please?

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listen this is a bit odd i did ask you the question first but like usual that was disregarded. i have addressed all your questions/thoughts in previous posts to you i'll copy and paste my answer here that i sent to another poster a bit ago.

repentance is an english word not in use during the time of Christ.
english was not created at babel by God but by peolpe with lets say not the best intentions.
repentance in our culture has a works backing to it. tell God your sorry and do your best to never do it again is this scriptural.
side note just so we stay on topic-confession of sin is great before God but we are not to be hypocritical before the Lord as in matthew 15:21-28 as the Lord would not deal with her till she quite trying to present herself as a jew but as a gentile.
repentance translated in greek is metanoia which means change of mind ok so lets add it in.
matthew 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, "CHANGE YOUR MIND, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."
luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to CHANGE OF MIND.

i could go on and on with this but we are to bring our thinking into alignment with the thinking of Gods that is repentance and that only. so faith and faith alone is to be in his finished work. its a mind and heart change and not works. a work would be trying to change your own behavior by trying to discipline ones self to not do a particular sin, this will never produce the fruit we desire because we as fallen beings and are incapable of overcoming sin. the Lord has overcomed and him only, so our repentance is accepting that grace which he has provided as a free gift and believing on it.

me personally in repentance.
lets say i have a sin i'm dealing with lust,addiction whatever if i try to stop just by disciplining myself it does not stop but sometimes even gets worse (if people are honest they will admit that is is true) but i know when i say Lord Jesus you do not have an issue with lust and as you are in heaven so am i in this world(for the kingdom heaven has come near) now my trust is in the one who has overcome and that sin diminishes and is dealt with by the master. the kingdom is Christ the word fully God and man. that is repentance.

john 10:28-29
Jesus gives them eternal life not by works but by faith or that mind set in who he is and no one can snatch them out of the fathers hand.
ephesians 2:8-9
we are saved by grace it is a gift and not by works.
ephesians 1:13
included in Christ upon hearing the gospel of salvation (faith through metanoia) and are marked with a seal.
revelation 3:5
how are we victorious through works of trying or by faith through metanoia. and are names will never be blotted out why? because we can never earn what is a free gift so how could we lose it. once he owns you he owns you and will complete that work in you because that is his purpose not ours. once again we do good works because he first loved us but those good works can never add to or assist in the salvation process because you and i can not save ourselves so when we try to it is a slap in the face of the one who paid the price.

listen in a previous post i said i would give you the last word and i should have stuck with what i initially said. i have bent over backwards trying to have a conversation with you and have honestly addressed all you have put before me but you have not reciprocated that back to me. if you wish to have a conversation then address the scriptures i have put before you if not thank you for your time and have a blessed day.

Dorothy Mae said:

Jesus had an agenda too. I have the same one. That men desire to know the One True God.

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My agenda is not fear and bondage to IN-security, just the opposite (John 10:27-29) but that men desire to know the One True God.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

You’ll need to edit your post since not a single question was answered. Quoting me shows no sarcasm. I didn’t use any. Maybe you don’t know what sarcasm is. I say plainly what OSASers day, no sarcasm.

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I was simply answering one question. Your quotes show no sarcasm? I don't know what sarcasm is? More sarcasm. Painting OSASers with a broad brush is unfair.

Dorothy Mae said:

We were talking Christians, not cults. Might as well as mentioned Muslims.

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Yet all of those churches that I mentioned "label themselves" as "Christians."

Jonaitis said:

I do believe it is impossible to lose your salvation. In fact, we read in Revelation that the names written in the book of life were written before the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). Those written to be saved will be saved, and those not found therein will not be saved.

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By the end of Revelation John has described the visions which he had. He has written down the prophecies which he received. He advises others not to fool around with the prophecies as recorded by him. To do so would expose a person to a loss of bliss and to the plagues that are described in the book as descending upon God's foes.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Ttalkkugjil said:

By the end of Revelation John has described the visions which he had. He has written down the prophecies which he received. He advises others not to fool around with the prophecies as recorded by him. To do so would expose a person to a loss of bliss and to the plagues that are described in the book as descending upon God's foes.

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If you add to the book as in you add your own message to the book you will get the plagues (you will not suffer for eternity)

If you take away from the book as in intentionly leave notions of the Bible out and sway people to error then you could argue they will suffer for all eternity. There is a critical distinction between suffering plagues and suffering all eternity.