How to verify prophets?

We believe that the Bible is the complete word of God to us today and that everything contained within it is as good as accomplished otherwise it would not be there.

Are there any prophecies you're thinking of specifically?

I may not be a mature Christian, but I will give an answer.

While it is true that the prophet's predictions must come true, there are other marks of his authenticity. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matt. 7:15-20).

Most prophets spent their time teaching divine truth than they did predicting future events. They, being the mouth-piece of God, were more like preachers. You would often know a prophet by their words, if they taught what was true and right, as well as lived by it themselves. God would not only provide the word in them to the people, but made them into such example men (often times better than the average person) that you could "feel," as it were, that you were in the presence of God when you talked or stood near them. They had that anointing that only God would pour on such an individual, and what they spoke would convict and cut the heart if it so pleased God.

There were times that they would show miracles to confirm and strengthen the faith, love, and devotion of the people toward God every now and then, and they would never direct that glory to themselves. They stood out by how they lived and by what they preached, you would know them even if they never once predicted a single event.

If the Most High decided to speak through a man, whom he chooses willingly and freely, he would set that man apart in and throughout his life for his commission and relation with himself. God's prophets are distinguishable from false prophets.

A real prophet prophecy will come to pass.

Ironically, many big events of recent are mostly man-made terrorisms or man-made/human error accidents.

Why would a prophet come out and tell a terrorism will take place, etc etc, and they all come to pass. National security might hunt them down and think they're causing / master-minding the global events!

In the Church, if a believer is moving in any gift it doesn't mean they will be perfect in its execution every time - we are all human.
All prophesy should be weighed by other prophets anyway.

As far as scripture is concerned, the process of receiving words of scripture is very distinct. It has the confirmation of both old and New Testament Patriarchs. It also has survived various church councils over time.

There are many biblical prophesies that relate to times to come.

We have 100% certainty that God himself has watched over the process of us having the scripture in an accurate form.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

friend of said:

We believe that the Bible is the complete word of God to us today and that everything contained within it is as good as accomplished otherwise it would not be there.

Are there any prophecies you're thinking of specifically?

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Near-term or "tactical" prophecies are extremely useful.

At least for making immediate or tactical decisions. They are more useful in a practical sense in day-to-day activities, even in matters of survival or avoiding/evading danger.

Athée said:

Hey all,

A friendly atheist here with a quick question.

I was thinking today about prophecy and I seem to recall believing (may years ago now) that in order to be a true prophet of God, it had to be the case that every prophecy made, would come to pass.

Is that what you believe?

If that is the case, any time there is a "not yet accomplished" prophecy in the Bible, does that mean that you are withholding judgement on whether or not the speaker of the prophecy is actually a true prophet of God? Does this apply to Jesus and his pronouncement of future things?

This is not a trap attempt and I won't be following up your answers with a bunch of acerbic comments about special pleading etc. I'm just generally interested in how mature Christians think about this idea that popped into my mind while I was making crosses out of Rice Krispy for the kiddos' Easter celebration at church tomorrow

Peace
Athee

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In theory yes, what you are saying is correct. The old testament even states plainly that if someone prophecies some thing and it does not come to pass he is a false prophet. Oddly though, no time frame is specified. So I suppose that prophet must also provide the timeframe for the prophecy to occur. So if someone says "it will rain", I'm not certain how long we should wait for the rain to begin. But if he says "it will rain before next Thursday" we only have to wait until Thursday to find out.

Athée said:

Hey all,

A friendly atheist here with a quick question.

I was thinking today about prophecy and I seem to recall believing (may years ago now) that in order to be a true prophet of God, it had to be the case that every prophecy made, would come to pass.

Is that what you believe?

If that is the case, any time there is a "not yet accomplished" prophecy in the Bible, does that mean that you are withholding judgement on whether or not the speaker of the prophecy is actually a true prophet of God? Does this apply to Jesus and his pronouncement of future things?

This is not a trap attempt and I won't be following up your answers with a bunch of acerbic comments about special pleading etc. I'm just generally interested in how mature Christians think about this idea that popped into my mind while I was making crosses out of Rice Krispy for the kiddos' Easter celebration at church tomorrow

Peace
Athee

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There are a number of criteria to consider:

1) Deut 18:15-22 - if words spoken in Gods name do not come true then this was not of God.
2) Rev 19:10 - "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy" - do these words glorify Jesus or another?
3) Jonah - some prophecies are conditional e.g. on repentance. When they do not come true that does not make the prophet a false one.
4) Also there is a difference between discernment and prophecy. People can say insightful things and see things very clearly and yet be surprised by events. This is why the gift of prophecy is superior to that of discernment.

We are called to test the spirits and not all who claim to be prophets are so.

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. - Deuteronomy 18:22

presumptuously - Or out of the ego.. The ego of man is not the unction of God! A man of God will speak hard things with a broken and a contrite heart.

Athée said:

Hey all,

A friendly atheist here with a quick question.

I was thinking today about prophecy and I seem to recall believing (may years ago now) that in order to be a true prophet of God, it had to be the case that every prophecy made, would come to pass.

Is that what you believe?

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Yes - it is.

Athee said:

If that is the case, any time there is a "not yet accomplished" prophecy in the Bible, does that mean that you are withholding judgement on whether or not the speaker of the prophecy is actually a true prophet of God?

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No Athee.

Athee said:

Does this apply to Jesus and his pronouncement of future things?

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N/A

The culture of prophecy in the OT is really difficult to acquire because so little is mentioned on it. A lot did happen in the OT, sometimes God spoke through a false prophet for the purpose of bringing judgement on the king, sometimes God spoke through a non Israelite, like Balaam. Sometimes prophets were generational, and in the NT there was a whole family who prophesied. Regarding the OT prophets that have unfulfilled prophecy, they are considered by their fulfilled prophecies and the network of prophetic overlay. There is actually very little in the book of revelation that is new, it is very much a compiling from all the prophets into a single map. One example of this prophetic overlay is Hosea 13:7-8

So I will pounce on them like a lion;
like a leopard on the path I will lurk.
Like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will attack them,
and I will tear open their chests.
There I will devour them like a lion,
like a wild beast would tear them apart.

This is exactly what Daniel saw in his vision of the beasts. So another way they are verified is they all form this single picture, each having an overlay.

The first prophecy I can recall mentioned with any description is in the NT. It was a prophecy of a food shortage, and Paul began his ministry in response to that shortage by saving up food and traveling to that city. That is very different from OT prophecies. Revelation is very much like an OT prophecy, but it stands alone with no other extant prophecy like it. It's possible that Jude and Peter mention a lost prophecy regarding the apostasy that will come which sounds like a traditional prophecy.

Today Christians experience what is called "words of knowledge". These are short instances of knowledge about a person, the outcome of an event, or judgement or message from God. I have actually received one of these words of knowledge (message from God) by a much trembling complete stranger who could find no rest until she told me. When people have these words of knowledge they aren't always certain it is from God, they might be 60/40 or 80/20. They are usually very humble about it and ask "does this make sense to you", or "I feel like". Though the girl who came to me said straight up "God told me".

Paul does tell us to test these things 1 Corinthians 14:29 " Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said." That seems to imply that a prophet might be mistaken. This may be an argument from silence but there is no admonition attached here, which leads me to believe we may have a "glass darkly" situation. You can have pure light, but if it goes through a dark glass with imperfections the light will scatter. That may also explain the 60/40.

Hi there is a distinction between being a prophet and speaking prophetically. If you define Bible prophecy it is simply speaking froth the words of God so if you share a scripture you are speaking forth prophecy. The prophet sometimes would speak of future things and often these things had some elements that were near term and others that are far off and some of the events in the Bible history were acting out prophecy even when they did not know it at the time.
Moses was told to make a serpent of bronze and lift it on the pole and when the people were being plagued by poisonous snakes who ever looked at the raised serpent would not die. Jesus said as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness so too must the son of man be lifted up. This prophecy became clear thousands of years later. There are many lenses you can use to see the scriptures and which lens you choose will determine your eschatology. Those who take it literal are still watching for Ezekiel 38 war and Isaiah 17 destruction of Damascus. There see the rise of antichrist and the abomination of desolation as future and the 2nd coming at the battle of Armageddon. The Mt of Olives splitting in two and all. Others will argue it all happened in 70AD. The standard is 100% for someone who claims to receive a message from God so all those Mark Taylor fans should do a double check as his average is not that and he will claim he is not a prophet yet calls his book the Trump Prophecies.

Some of us Christians are inordinately fond of boasting of the prophetic accuracy of the Bible. However, in order to have a verified example of prophecy fulfillment, there are certain criteria that must be adhered to:

1) THE PROPHECY MUST BE CLEARLY ISSUED AS A PROPHECY AND UNEQUIVOCALLY DESCRIBE THE EVENT WHICH IT PREDICTS. --- No hints or intimations from the Old Testament claimed to be fulfilled in the New. Example: Psalms allusions.

2) THE PROPHECY MUST BE PROVEN TO HAVE BEEN RECORDED PRIOR TO THE EVENT BEING PREDICTED --- Jesus may have predicted the destruction of Jerusalem, but the Gospels were written after this happened. We cannot produce an authentic first century manuscript of a gospel, let alone any written prior to this event. Example: nothing in Daniel can be shown to have been written before 165 BC.

3) THE PROPHECY FULFILLMENT MAY NOT CONSIST OF ANY EVENT CAPABLE OF BEING STAGED FOR THE PURPOSE OF FULFILLING PROPHECY --- Example: Jesus riding into town on a donkey.

4) THE EVENT(S) BEING PREDICTED MUST CONSIST OF SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE EXPLAINED BY AN INTELLIGENT GUESS --- Example: Jeremiah predicting that Babylon, clearly an expansionist power, would soon sack Judea. This is mundane punditry, not supernatural prophecy.

5) THE EVENTS MUST HAVE ACTUALLY COME TO PASS --- The fact that the bible says they did is not sufficient in the absence of external confirmation. Example: The flight into Egypt by Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

I cannot remember where I first found this but I cannot fault it in any way. These criteria are just as equally applicable to prophesy in scriptures other than the Bible and indeed in what might be called prophesy in other contexts.

Brian Mcnamee said:

Mark Taylor fans should do a double check as his average is not that and he will claim he is not a prophet yet calls his book the Trump Prophecies.

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Mark Taylor is very clear that he claims to be "a prophetic voice", not a prophet - a term which many others have used concerning him. That doesn't make his "Trump prophecies" any less prophetic.

he is not batting 100%. so that is not good as 100% is the standard.

Brian Mcnamee said:

he is not batting 100%. so that is not good as 100% is the standard.

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So now 100% is the standard even for functioning in the gift of prophecy? I don't see that in scripture. Perhaps you've moved the goalposts.

Athée said:

If that is the case, any time there is a "not yet accomplished" prophecy in the Bible, does that mean that you are withholding judgement on whether or not the speaker of the prophecy is actually a true prophet of God? Does this apply to Jesus and his pronouncement of future things?

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I'm not a prophecy expert, but I would say, no. If it's in scripture, it's true. We may not have the understanding yet to be able to see what's going on. Daniel gave an interesting prophecy some 2550 years ago.


"Knowledge" there can have a broad range of meanings.

1. knowledge, perception, skill
2. discernment, understanding, wisdom

Certainly we can see the prophecy's amazing fulfillment in the natural realm. But I believe it also pertains to the understanding of scripture and prophecy.

Athée said:

Hey all,

A friendly atheist here with a quick question.

I was thinking today about prophecy and I seem to recall believing (may years ago now) that in order to be a true prophet of God, it had to be the case that every prophecy made, would come to pass.

Is that what you believe?

If that is the case, any time there is a "not yet accomplished" prophecy in the Bible, does that mean that you are withholding judgement on whether or not the speaker of the prophecy is actually a true prophet of God? Does this apply to Jesus and his pronouncement of future things?

This is not a trap attempt and I won't be following up your answers with a bunch of acerbic comments about special pleading etc. I'm just generally interested in how mature Christians think about this idea that popped into my mind while I was making crosses out of Rice Krispy for the kiddos' Easter celebration at church tomorrow

Peace
Athee

Click to expand...

I'm approaching this from a more historical, traditional Christian point of view. The gift of prophecy we see mentioned in the New Testament isn't really about someone being a seer or something like that, but rather prophecy here is perhaps in some ways better understood as preaching or proclamation. Prophecy is about proclaiming the word of God.

If we take a step further back and ask what exactly was it that the ancient prophets of Israel doing, the answer to that is that they were proclaiming God's word. It's easy to think that a prophet is a "fore-teller", but a more accurate understanding is that a prophet is a "forth-teller", that is, to speak forth and proclaim something, in this case "the word of the LORD" as it is often called in the Old Testament. Much of the prophetic ministry of the ancient prophets had almost nothing to do with talking about what would happen in the future, but about what was happening then. The prophets were tasked with calling God's people away from their faithlessness and back to faithfulness. That's why the prophets condemned the rich and powerful for abusing the poor and the hungry, it's why they condemned idolatry and a return to right worship of God. It also meant speaking judgment against wickedness, and also speaking promise to those suffering.

That sense of speaking forth God's word, to speak truth in the present--that's the gift of prophecy. And it doesn't mean speaking "special" truth, like "God told me to tell you"; not that. It is simply the preaching and proclamation of what God has already said. So this gift is exercised regularly in churches around the world, often through the pastor who often is the one exercising the preaching of the word.

The idea of special classes of Christians is one of the very things that is condemned in the New Testament by St. Paul, especially in his first letter to the Corinthians. There is no special class of Christians called "prophets".

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

The idea of special classes of Christians is one of the very things that is condemned in the New Testament by St. Paul, especially in his first letter to the Corinthians. There is no special class of Christians called "prophets".

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Act 21:10

Eph 4:11

How does this opinion sit with these scriptures? What do you mean by 'special classes' ?

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.