I said in an earlier post that the lucky ones are left behind. I think you missed it...
FYI
Satan usually does stuff to make planes fall out of the sky...not God.
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The Rapture Is God's 10% Cut
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FYI
Satan usually does stuff to make planes fall out of the sky...not God.
SeventyOne
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Suffering through God's wrath on earth isn't exactly what I'd call lucky.
So, now you are speaking for God. Not exactly a good position for you to be in either.
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The idea of a pretrib rapture took place back in Paul's day due to people misunderstanding something he said.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
He shouldn't even have to speak of these things because he would have told them in person when he was with them but for some reason he decides in fact to re-tell them this:
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
This is it. The idea that Christ could come suddenly without any warning before the tribulation and Antichrist etc is what started the Pre-trib concept. This one sentence will be misunderstood and the idea that Christ could come at any time, even before the tribulation happens, is born. The facts are that Christ cannot and will not just suddenly appear because there are major events that have to take place first before he arrives but those who are unsaved and spiritually blind won't know this and so the second coming will surprise them without warning as a thief in the night but not those who are awake and watching for the right signs.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
And this is the part that was missed or ignored. Christ only comes suddenly, without any warning to those who are deceived, in darkness, and are worshiping a false god in the tribulation. Christ's actual appearance will be sudden and shocking to them! But not to us!
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night
So the confusion about Christ appearing suddenly at any moment reached Paul and he wrote a second letter to explain what he meant in the first one!
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
He is saying DO NOT BE WORRIED THAT CHRIST CAN JUST SUDDENLY RETURN AND SURPRISE YOU!
Look at his words:
1. by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
That is the second coming!
2. and by our gathering together unto him
That is the rapture!
3. that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Don't be worried that the second coming and the rapture "is at hand" meaning they could happen at any moment instead of after the tribulation as Christ said in the gospels.
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keras
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You haven't read the many scriptures that clearly tell us that the Lord will protect His own during His wrath.
Those who stand firm in their faith and trust in Him: will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
Really? So Christ was wrong?
You have dug yourself a hole and fallen into it. Great Tribulation WILL happen before Jesus Returns, this is plain from many scriptures, esp: Revelation.
Please explain why people who are alive and remain after the GT, will be taken to heaven when Jesus Returns, as you believe. Jesus will be on earth; reigning as King; why do the Christians go to heaven then?
We are told; we will be priests and co-rulers on earth. Revelation 5:10, Isaiah 66:21
And please do not compound your error by saying we humans will accompany Jesus; riding on white horses and waving swords. That idea is totally unbelievable and contradicts Matthew 16:27, Matthew 25:31
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SeventyOne
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keras
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You said, or implied; that to be on earth during the time of God's wrath, would be very bad.
Revelation 12:14 refutes you, the faithful Christians who maintained their trust in God, will be taken to a place of safety on earth for the 1260 days that the Anti-Christ will occupy the holy Land.
I could post 25+ scriptures that tell us how the Lord will protect His own people.
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Well, if you understood one being taken away the same way I understand it....YOU also would proclaim that the lucky one gets left behind.
The rapture, the way some understand it to be, is a new concept in Christianity and does not exist.
So, now you are speaking for God. Not exactly a good position for you to be in either.[/QUOTE]
I see. Only YOU could speak for God.
Happy Resurrection Day.
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Read E, but this will require some time which I don't have right now.
Tomorrow.
After Easter...
Happy Resurrection Day.
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Ttalkkugjil
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I see. Only YOU could speak for God.
Happy Resurrection Day.[/QUOTE]
The fun part's that there's not going to be a rapture.
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I understand that in a preterist sense as the most obvious one. To think he's speaking of a distant future is to fail to understand the fact that Jews apprehended the world through typology and abstractions expressed in concrete imagery.
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Petros2015
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... uh, people sometimes do stuff that make planes fall out of the sky. Like plant bombs on them, or not service them correctly to save some money or shoot missiles at them because they are trespassing. Sometimes weather is a problem, my dad was killed when there was a microburst that took out an engine in the plane he was co-piloting.
Planes and weather obey the laws of physics that God made. It's pretty rare God makes exceptions to those rules, and I think it's probably pretty rare Satan is allowed to bend them either.
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I agree. We won't always agree, at last, not until we are all perfected. Until then... I tend to draw my line around the idea that unless what one is teaching is pulling themselves or others away from God... I don't speak up. In this case... perhaps it wasn't pulling anyone from God... but the idea of a DNA harvest when the bible in more than one place speaks about a full body resurrection is opening people up to Scientology type teachings which WILL pull others away.
Blessings.
Ken
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It's not that I don' agree with you....
It's that if you're Christian you know that all good comes from God...
From whom does evil come? Certainly not God who is all-good. That's one of His attributes.
Evil (which is anything bad) comes from satan.
The person that planted the bomb was a servant to satan...the weather is affected by the same evil we are. Romans 8:19-22
etc.
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Petros2015
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Sure, but I don't regard bad weather as evil.
I'm OK with the idea that it obeys God's natural laws, even if that means floods or deaths from time to time.
Random weather, or weather with Free-Will lol. Now THAT would be a problem!
I'm OK with the idea that it obeys God's natural laws, even if that means floods or deaths from time to time.
Random weather, or weather with Free-Will lol. Now THAT would be a problem!
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SeventyOne
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I see. Only YOU could speak for God.
Happy Resurrection Day.[/QUOTE]
It's not new. That's fake news.
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SeventyOne
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It will be very bad, protection or not. And none of this refutes a rapture. I think you'd be hard-pressed finding a pre-tribber who doesn't realize there will be those who become believers afterwards. Besides, the woman in Revelation 12 isn't the Church. the Church was part of the child birthed by the woman. You aren't even talking abut the same group of people as I am.
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How could you be a Christian and not understand what evil is and that it affects everything?
Who said anything about weather having free will?
You should study up on evil and sin entering into the world.
And stop making fun of persons that DO understand it.
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Petros2015
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No one did (including you), I was just imagining. Not making fun of you.
It was gaining an intimate personal understanding of evil that led me to be a Christian. As far as I can tell, the whole ride the human race signed up for was named 'Knowledge of Good and Evil'. Evil seems to be separation from God, from perfection. Things get worse the further the separation, since God is the author of love, light, holiness, mercy, sanity, forgiveness, life, etc. On a personal level it's not pleasant. I don't really believe that one even *needs* to be damned to Hell. One can find oneself there simply by deliberately and insistently walking away from God, the same way you can find yourself in the cold and the dark if you walk away from a campfire, or in the warmth and the light if you walk towards it.
So, I don't the expect the weather to be perfect here. I don't expect people to be immortal and not to get sick and not to die. I do have faith that God is calling us back to himself and made a way back through his Son. Hard to find a campfire when you are wearing a blindfold. God took the blindfold off.
I would, but, I'm 47 and I really don't plan to be here that long. Busy getting ready to leave - after all this was never my home.
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