US admits to killing civilians in Somalia, corrects record after incorrect congressional testimony

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In a follow up to a report back in March in which human rights groups alleged possible war crimes in our bombing in Somalia, We now admit to killing civilians.


https://thedefensepost.com/2019/04/05/us-africom-admits-somalia-civilian-casualties-airstrike/

Some highlights:

“On March 30, 2019, the command was notified about the results of a post-strike internal assessment conducted in April 2018 that found credible evidence of the two civilian casualties. Unfortunately, the finding was not properly reported to U.S. Africa Command headquarters,” the release said.


Africom’s initial report of the airstrike said it had killed five al-Shabaab fighters and no civilians.

The error was compounded when senior leaders said during congressional testimony that U.S. forces had caused zero civilian casualties in Africa.



Amnesty had accused the command of possibly violating international law, and saying some of the airstrikes it documented “may amount to war crimes.” Its investigation revealed that 14 civilians were killed, raising fears that the true death toll may be much higher.


Amnesty's numbers were based on investigations that did not include the air strike that killed two civilians as admitted by Africom.


 
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In a follow up to a report back in March in which human rights groups alleged possible war crimes in our bombing in Somalia, We now admit to killing civilians.


https://thedefensepost.com/2019/04/05/us-africom-admits-somalia-civilian-casualties-airstrike/

Some highlights:

“On March 30, 2019, the command was notified about the results of a post-strike internal assessment conducted in April 2018 that found credible evidence of the two civilian casualties. Unfortunately, the finding was not properly reported to U.S. Africa Command headquarters,” the release said.


Africom’s initial report of the airstrike said it had killed five al-Shabaab fighters and no civilians.

The error was compounded when senior leaders said during congressional testimony that U.S. forces had caused zero civilian casualties in Africa.



Amnesty had accused the command of possibly violating international law, and saying some of the airstrikes it documented “may amount to war crimes.” Its investigation revealed that 14 civilians were killed, raising fears that the true death toll may be much higher.


Amnesty's numbers were based on investigations that did not include the air strike that killed two civilians as admitted by Africom.


War is a messy business, civilians die. It's not a war crime without the intent to deliberately target civilians.

Any nation can strike valid military targets, even if civilians are known to be present, and should do so.

Their is no violation of international law, it is regrettable, but it is what it is. If we were to stop striking targets because of civilians being present, then civilians will always be put near military targets.

And I will say this, their are times where the enemy is so vile, so disgusting, and so evil, that it has to be fought in every way possible, and that may include the direct targeting of the civilian population, in efforts to bring the war to an end.

This is close to the actual quote:

"The Germans entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb and kill everyone else, and no one was going to bomb and kill them. They put this naive plan into operation over Warsaw, Rotterdam, and half a hundred other places. They have sown the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind. - Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris, Chief RAF Bomber Command.
 
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tall73

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And we appear to have no limit to such acceptable losses.

A Stars and Stripes article

The cost of post 9/11 wars hit $5.9 trillion, 480,000 lives lost, study says

The study’s death estimates include nearly 7,000 U.S. servicemembers, nearly 8,000 U.S. contractors, more than 100,0000 military and police members from other countries, more than 244,000 civilians and more than 100,000 opposition fighters.
 
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HTacianas

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In a follow up to a report back in March in which human rights groups alleged possible war crimes in our bombing in Somalia, We now admit to killing civilians.


https://thedefensepost.com/2019/04/05/us-africom-admits-somalia-civilian-casualties-airstrike/

Some highlights:

“On March 30, 2019, the command was notified about the results of a post-strike internal assessment conducted in April 2018 that found credible evidence of the two civilian casualties. Unfortunately, the finding was not properly reported to U.S. Africa Command headquarters,” the release said.


Africom’s initial report of the airstrike said it had killed five al-Shabaab fighters and no civilians.

The error was compounded when senior leaders said during congressional testimony that U.S. forces had caused zero civilian casualties in Africa.



Amnesty had accused the command of possibly violating international law, and saying some of the airstrikes it documented “may amount to war crimes.” Its investigation revealed that 14 civilians were killed, raising fears that the true death toll may be much higher.


Amnesty's numbers were based on investigations that did not include the air strike that killed two civilians as admitted by Africom.


Did they make any recommendations as to who, exactly, should be prosecuted for civilian deaths in Somalia?
 
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tall73

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tall73

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"The Germans entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb and kill everyone else, and no one was going to bomb and kill them. They put this naive plan into operation over Warsaw, Rotterdam, and half a hundred other places. They have sown the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind. - Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris, Chief RAF Bomber Command.

Additional protocol to the Geneva convention in 1977 outlined new guidelines that required distinguishing between civilians and combatants.



Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.
Protection of the civilian population

Article 51 [ Link ] -- Protection of the civilian population

1. The civilian population and individual civilians shall enjoy general protection against dangers arising from military operations. To give effect to this protection, the following rules, which are additional to other applicable rules of international law, shall be observed in all circumstances.

2. The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited.

3. Civilians shall enjoy the protection afforded by this Section, unless and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities.

4. Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited. Indiscriminate attacks are:

(a) those which are not directed at a specific military objective;

(b) those which employ a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific military objective; or

(c) those which employ a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be limited as required by this Protocol; and consequently, in each such case, are of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction.

5. Among others, the following types of attacks are to be considered as indiscriminate:

(a) an attack by bombardment by any methods or means which treats as a single military objective a number of clearly separated and distinct military objectives located in a city, town, village or other area containing a similar concentration of civilians or civilian objects; and

(b) an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

6. Attacks against the civilian population or civilians by way of reprisals are prohibited.

7. The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.

8. Any violation of these prohibitions shall not release the Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians, including the obligation to take the precautionary measures provided for in Article 57 [ Link ] .
 
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HTacianas

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tall73

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So what are their recommendations as to prosecuting those on the other side for the civilian deaths they have caused?

They will be prosecuted for terrorist acts if they are apprehended. In this case of terrorist attacks civilians are often the direct target.
 
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tall73

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In the Amnesty article they also report discussions with a now retired general regarding targeting policy which was expanded recently:

Worryingly, the General also believes that the Executive Order widened the net of potential targets to include virtually any adult male living in villages sympathetic to Al-Shabaab and seen in proximity to known fighters. Such a broad targeting mandate would violate international humanitarian law and lead to unlawful killing of civilians.

I would like to see more information on this point, however as the beliefs of a retired general would need to be based on data.

 
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HTacianas

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They will be prosecuted for terrorist acts if they are apprehended. In this case of terrorist attacks civilians are often the direct target.

So what we have is a group demanding the prosecution of US forces for war crimes all the while raising not one objection to war crimes committed by the enemy.

In other words, a piece of anti-US propaganda.
 
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tall73

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So what we have is a group demanding the prosecution of US forces for war crimes all the while raising not one objection to war crimes committed by the enemy.

In other words, a piece of anti-US propaganda.


They called for thorough investigation by the US military. And given that this resulted in further investigation by the military who then admitted to civilian casualties---apparently it was successful.

Raising concerns about killing civilians is not just anti-US propaganda.
 
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tall73

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So what we have is a group demanding the prosecution of US forces for war crimes

Prosecution was your language. They didn't call for prosecution. They simply said we need to investigate and be more open as we may be violating international law. There would be no point in them pushing for prosecution.

We removed our signature to the international criminal court in 2002. This was due to perceived bias, lack of due process, and the view that it would surrender US sovereignty.

And we enacted the American Service-Members Protection Act in 2002 which would protect service members from prosecution.
 
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So what we have is a group demanding the prosecution of US forces for war crimes all the while raising not one objection to war crimes committed by the enemy.

In other words, a piece of anti-US propaganda.

Exactly
 
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Prosecution was your language. They didn't call for prosecution. They simply said we need to investigate and be more open as we may be violating international law. There would be no point in them pushing for prosecution.

We removed our signature to the international criminal court in 2002. This was due to perceived bias, lack of due process, and the view that it would surrender US sovereignty.

And we enacted the American Service-Members Protection Act in 2002 which would protect service members from prosecution.

We prosecute our own service members. Warfare should be waged with as much violence as we can deliver. We need to persue them across any border, no quarter, no negotiation, no ceasefire, no target off limits. Additionally, unconditional surrender is the outcome, which means blockade, and you essentially starve out there families. After 30 days they will start eating each other.
 
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JosephZ

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So what we have is a group demanding the prosecution of US forces for war crimes all the while raising not one objection to war crimes committed by the enemy.
That doesn't have to be spelled out in this particular article because 1) that's not the issue this article is addressing, and 2) because it's common sense that the perpetrators of terrorism and those belonging to terrorist organizations break local and international laws and need to be neutralized.

How silly would something like this sound? "Terrorist admit to killing civilians, group demands they be investigated/prosecuted."

You see, the world expects terrorists to break international law, it's what they do. but it's expected that governments, like the United States, are above this.
 
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