Who Does Baptism Benefit?

Tree of Life said:

Baptists, Reformed folks, Lutherans, Catholics and EOs all believe that baptism benefits somebody....

Baptist View - Baptism is mainly for the benefit of the baptized believer. It should only be applied to those who profess faith in Christ. The church witnesses baptism but only like those who are witnesses in a wedding ceremony. They may celebrate with the person being baptized, but the baptism is not about them. The person being baptized is publicly professing their faith in Christ and experiencing a kind of bench mark in their Christian faith.

Click to expand...

How can a ceremony that is thought to be merely symbolic and an obligation, that confers no grace and forgives no sin, be described as "for the benefit of the baptized believer??"

Tree of Life said:

Who are you asking? The one who holds the Reformed view?

Click to expand...

No, that was in response to your paragraph entitled "Baptist View."

First, I understand that there is being "baptized into His death", which Paul says in Romans 6:3. Ones connect this with water baptism. But I personally understand this can be at the time of repentance. In one's heart, at repentance, one turns to Jesus and becomes alive > Ephesians 2:1. So, it is done at the time when one does it in one's heart. And Acts 26:18 talks about how Paul would turn people "from the power of Satan to God". At the turning of repentance one dies to self and starts in the life of Jesus. So, I do not trust that at the time of water baptism, that then is when certain things happen.

Tree of Life about Baptist baptism you said:

The person being baptized is publicly professing their faith in Christ

Click to expand...

Ok, so I get that when the person first trusts in Christ, repenting, right then in one's heart the person has died with Christ and is risen, being made alive > Ephesians 2:1, with Ephesians 1:12. So, the water action is later, but with its benefits since it is done in love and in God's grace being ministered, since all our actions in God's love do minister His grace. Scriptures say we minister God's own grace >

1 Peter 4:9-10

Ephesians 4:29

So, yes the baptism action can minister grace to everyone, however.

Also, Jesus says whoever confesses Him before men will be confessed by Jesus in Heaven. So, being baptized can be a way of confessing Jesus before men; and so this helps to bring how Jesus confesses the person before our Father in Heaven . . . I consider. The person is already saved, but as we confess Jesus He is confessing us, I consider. And in our lives now we can experience how Jesus confessing us effects us and our lives.

About Catholic baptism you said:

translating them from darkness to light,

Click to expand...

Jesus told Paul that he would turn people "from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18). And he says God has made us alive, after we were in trespasses and sins > Ephesians 2:1. Also, Paul speaks of how we "first trusted in Christ" > Ephesians 1:12.

I can't say I a Catholic baptized baby became a person living in God's light. I was certainly not turned from Satan's power to God and therefore living in God's peace with love for any and all people. I was very selfish and concerned only or mainly about my own self. Even after I repented of being evil for the sake of it, I was mainly concerned about getting my own self to Heaven. So, certainly my infant baptism did not turn me from sin to God and living for Jesus in His "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:29) while obeying how our Father personally rules us in His own peace > Colossians 3:15. So, in my case my Catholic baptism did not at all have this result.

But possibly your representation of Catholic baptism is not from an informed source. I think the official version is different, something like the penalty of original sin is removed when Catholic baptism occurs, but then the individual needs to choose to do God's will, making this choice when the person reaches age of being able to do so.

About Reformed baptism you said:

Every time the believer sees a baptism, he is seeing a visual representation of the gospel and by faith he grasps Christ and the benefits of salvation. This is why it's essential that baptism is celebrated in public worship where all believers can benefit from it.

Click to expand...

You might recheck your sources, in any case.

Any thing God has us doing can minister His grace. We are living in His grace and benefitting from this while we do what His love has us doing. And the overall result is we are conformed to the image of Jesus > Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:28-29.

Tree of Life said:

It's a good question and I believe it reveals some problems with the baptist view. It's also why many baptists and sons of baptists have gone on to reject baptism and the sacraments altogether. If they don't do anything, why do them?

Click to expand...

Well, the best answer that I get from Baptists is that we have an obligation to do it in order to show God that we obey him or believe in him (or something like that).

But if so, the use of the word benefits to describe what the newly-baptized person gets out of it would seem inappropriate.

Except that the people we are discussing do not call them sacraments. They prefer ordinances for the very reason that they attach no concept of receiving grace or forgiveness to them.

Over time eventually I came from a credobaptist view to paedobaptist view, admittedly, I still struggle on this issue though, and could not cast a clear vote, so I chose not to, sorry. I was baptized twice, but looking back, do not see the need for a second baptism, but have no regret, because it symbolized the work of God and changes He actively brought about in my life. In a way, it was also a public testimony, because it was performed not in a Church building, but in a local lake at a public park. I know regeneration occurred long before this baptismal ceremony, but it is a commandment in Scripture, and if and when possible pleases God to exercise obedience, it should (not that it always is) be our desire to obey our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Q. 96 How do baptism and the Lord's Supper become effectual means of salvation?

A. Baptism and the Lord's Supper become effectual means of salvation, not for any virtue in them, or in him that doth administer them, but only by the blessing of Christ (1 Pet. 3:21; Matt. 3:11; 1 Cor. 3:6, 7), and the working of the Spirit in those that by faith receive them (1 Cor. 12:3).

- A Baptist Catechism, commonly known as Keach's Catechism

Tree of Life said:

Thanks. He is lifting these words straight out of the Westminster Confession of Faith. They make sense in Westminster because the Reformed view is that the sacraments are means of grace. But it's unclear how this is the case in baptist theology. Could you explain?

Click to expand...

Sure.

In Particular Baptist theology, the ordinances are seen as a means of grace as well. I found this excerpt from Dictionary of Latin and Greek Theological Terms: Drawn Principally from Protestant Scholastic Theology by Richard Muller very helpful in understanding what that means:

Media gratiae: means of grace; i.e., Word and sacraments as the means by which the grace of God is operative in the church. The term is used by both Lutheran and Reformed orthodox, although the Lutherans often substitute a stronger term, organa gratiae et salutis (q.v.), instruments of grace and salvation. The identification of Word and sacraments as media gratiae does not intend to exclude a general or common operation of grace but rather to indicate the function of both Word and sacraments in the regeneration (regeneratio, q.v.) and sanctification (sanctificatio, q.v.) of man as the instruments or objective channels of special or saving grace (gratia specialis). Word and sacraments are thus instrumental both in the inception of salvation and in the continuance of the work of grace in the Christian life. In addition, Word and sacraments are the sole officially ordained or instituted instruments or means of grace. God has promised the presence of his grace to faithful hearers of the Word and faithful participants in the sacraments. Thus the right preaching of the Word and right administration of the sacraments are the marks or identifying features of the true church (notae ecclesiae, q.v.). The Lutherans differ with the Reformed in rooting saving grace more totally in Word and sacrament. Without denying the efficacy of grace in Word and sacrament, the Reformed can argue the nonreception of that grace and also the ineffectual calling of the external Word (Verbum externum, q.v.) in the case of the nonelect or reprobate.

Click to expand...

This is take from our Confession (1689) on Chapter 14:1:

The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word; by which also, and by the administration of baptism and the Lord's supper, prayer, and other means appointed of God, it is increased and strengthened.

(2 Corinthians 4:13; Ephesians 2:8; Romans 10:14, 17; Luke 17:5; 1 Peter 2:2; Acts 20:32)

Click to expand...

In a pamphlet I received years ago, I found this to be the most simplest way to explain it by Earl Blackburn:

What Do We Mean By “Means of Grace”?

The Oxford American Dictionary defines the word “means” as “that by which a result is brought about.” Thus, the means of grace are channels by which God conveys His blessings to people. The Westminster Larger Catechism defines the means of grace as “The outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to His Church the benefits of His mediation [i.e. death].” To illustrate this think of a lawn or garden water hose. A hose is not special in itself, but it is the channel through which life-giving and refreshing water flows. So it is with the means of grace. In and of themselves they are not special, but are the avenues and channels through which God’s life-giving and refreshing blessings flow. Through the means of grace, God imparts strength, peace, comfort, instruction, direction, reproof, rebuke, joy and many other things that are needful for the Christian life.

While the term “means of grace” is not found in the Bible, it is nevertheless a proper designation of that which is taught in the Bible. There are two types of means of grace: private and public. The rest of this study will deal with the different aspects of each type.

Click to expand...

You can view a free pdf of "The Means of Grace: How you can grow as a Christian" by Blackburn here.

Tree of Life said:

I wonder if the Reformed Baptists will call them sacraments and what they mean by this. @Jonaitis appears to allow that they are means of grace, but I wonder how that can be.

Click to expand...

I don't shy away from calling them sacraments or ordinances, since they can be seen as synonymous.

Tree of Life said:

If they are means of grace, do they only benefit the person being baptized or do they benefit all believers like in the Reformed view?

Click to expand...

They benefit the believer, and that after he has made a profession of repentance toward God, faith in and obedience to Jesus Christ.

Edit: I suppose I do see it benefiting the entire congregation as well.

Tree of Life said:

Why does baptism only benefit the person being baptized and not the believing congregation who witnesses (and participates) in the sacrament?

Click to expand...

Honestly? I have thought about this for years, and I do in fact lean toward the idea it blesses all who are present at the baptism, since it isn't shown to the baptized alone but all who watch.