Destroying the Disastrous Doctrine of Cessationism

Dave L · Apr 20, 2019

JLB777 said:
Only Churches who believe.

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:16-18

We see answers to the prayer of faith in all churches. Demons flee in Jesus' name. We take up serpents every time we post on line.

Dave L · Apr 20, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Why? Would all? Or some? How many exactly?

Just sayin' it isn't here because tongues ceased long ago.

Ken C. · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
You need to study the subject independently of your denomination.

Dave, we can say the same thing to you. I believed the same as you up until 2011 and then the Lord revealed things to me from His Word. What you are believing comes not from His Word but from men. I guarantee you that satan does not want you to believe these things. You are missing out on so much that the Lord has promised.

Dave L · Apr 20, 2019

Ken C. said:
Dave, we can say the same thing to you. I believed the same as you up until 2011 and then the Lord revealed things to me from His Word. What you are believing comes not from His Word but from men. I guarantee you that satan does not want you to believe these things. You are missing out on so much that the Lord has promised.

Why do you think you speak in tongues and Christendom at large does not?

DamianWarS · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Just saying, tongues today are nothing like the originals. Two different things altogether.

You're just saying what? that you dislike Pentecostals and everything they teach is wrong? You're quick to accuse others of adding but fail to see the gaping bias in your own eye.

There's misuse today, there was misuse with the Corinthians, so rather than just sweep it all under a 1st-century rug let's actually read the bible and see what it says about the gift and let the chips fall where they may. Or you can throw a dart at some time in history and say they ceased where the dart landed and point to a single cryptic verse and say this proves it.

Ken C. · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Why do you think you speak in tongues and Christendom at large does not?

Because there are more than you know that enter into their prayer closets and pray in the Spirit. We are spiritual beings, Dave. So to keep the flesh out of the way, we pray in the Spirit. The mind becomes unfruitful (it doesn't understand what is being prayed). After finishing, ask for the interpretation. Praying in tongues is a direct link to the Holy Spirit. Praying with your mind engaged can lead to distractions. I know you'll scoff at this and that's ok.

HatGuy · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
The prayer of faith still heals the sick. Demons still flee at the name of Jesus Christ. Just that scripture thoroughly furnishes us where tongues and prophecy were only fragments of scripture being written.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16–17)

So tongues was instituted to write scripture?

Where do you find any indication that tongues was for writing scripture?

I could go with you on prophecy (assuming a very limited view of how prophecy works) but tongues seems to serve no, or very limited, purpose in writing scripture. No scripture claims that tongues was ever and only for writing scripture. Unless you think Paul and the other apostles would spontaneously speak in tongues and scribes would write it down and someone interpreted what was said?

It seems the line is ever more arbitrary. So now we're saying charismatic gifts are all valid, but only tongues and prophecy is not?

To be honest I'd love to be a cessationist. It might make a lot of things easier. But the Bible won't let me become one.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Just sayin' it isn't here because tongues ceased long ago.

Unfortunately you are wrong.

BCsenior · Apr 20, 2019

DamianWarS said:
... you (Dave) are hiding behind implicit ad-hominem attacks essentially saying your study is superior to others unless they agree
with you.

The OP is all the study anyone needs!

Dave needs to deal with all of the proofs
in the OP, which prove that cessationism
is ridiculous nonsense!

BCsenior · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
... read the bible for yourself under the Holy Spirit's tutelage.

It's obvious to most of us here in this thread
that you're NOT under the Holy Spirit's tutelage.

BCsenior · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
I spent years recovering from Pentecostalism.

So you had some bad experiences!
Everyone does sometimes!
Just get over it, and move on!
Like, into spiritual Truth.

BCsenior · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
But I kept coming up with question nobody could answer.

My sides are splitting from laughter!
WHAT QUESTION(S) ???
Think we can't answer any questions you have?
You're talking to REAL Spirit-filled people here!!!

BCsenior · Apr 20, 2019

Dave L said:
Just sayin' it isn't here because tongues ceased long ago.

Let's be clear: what you're saying is that
all 3 (prophecy, tongues, and knowledge)
have ceased (ref: 1 Corinthians 13:8-10).

Mary Meg · Apr 20, 2019

So starting after 400 a.d., these leaders simply declared that the gifts had ceased …

Actually, I think it probably didn't begin until after the Protestant Reformation. I know I've read that St. Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153) was noted for the many divine healings when he preached.

Dave L · Apr 20, 2019

BCsenior said:
So you had some bad experiences!
Everyone does sometimes!
Just get over it, and move on!
Like, into spiritual Truth.

It's not that simple. I believe Pentecostalism deceived me in many areas. Practically everything they believe from "free will" to Dispensationalism to the Charismatic gifts.

Dave L · Apr 20, 2019

BCsenior said:
It's obvious to most of us here in this thread
that you're NOT under the Holy Spirit's tutelage.

It's because I am that I crawled out of Pentecostalism.

Dave L · Apr 20, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Unfortunately you are wrong.

I can prove you wrong on several counts if you believe as the typical Pentecostal does.

BCsenior · Apr 20, 2019

Mary Meg said:
I know I've read that St. Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153) was noted for the many divine healings when he preached.

Am I losin' it, or can't I read the cessation
passage 1 Corinthians 13:8-10) correctly?
All I see there are:
prophecy, tongues, and knowledge!

Dave L · Apr 20, 2019

HatGuy said:
So tongues was instituted to write scripture?

Where do you find any indication that tongues was for writing scripture?

I could go with you on prophecy (assuming a very limited view of how prophecy works) but tongues seems to serve no, or very limited, purpose in writing scripture. No scripture claims that tongues was ever and only for writing scripture. Unless you think Paul and the other apostles would spontaneously speak in tongues and scribes would write it down and someone interpreted what was said?

It seems the line is ever more arbitrary. So now we're saying charismatic gifts are all valid, but only tongues and prophecy is not?

To be honest I'd love to be a cessationist. It might make a lot of things easier. But the Bible won't let me become one.

The only New Covenant words of God were tongues and prophecy that Paul said spoke mysteries. And Paul said he spoke in tongues more than all. So it makes sense that these along with Christ's words became the NT scriptures, that when collected gave the full revelation.

Mary Meg · Apr 20, 2019

BCsenior said:
Am I losin' it, or can't I read the cessation
passage correctly? ... All I see there are:
prophecy, tongues, and knowledge!
(ref: 1 Corinthians 13:8-10).

Lots of Protestants have also denied that miraculous divine healing is still a thing. Usually that term is applied to all the miraculous spiritual gifts. From Wikipedia:

In Christianity, cessationism is the doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the apostolic age.

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