A Case for Impeachment

wing2000 said:

George Conway argues Trump should be removed noting correctly that that a criminal conviction is not required for the Congress to impeach a President:

The Constitution provides for impeachment and removal from office for “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” But the history and context of the phrase “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” makes clear that not every statutory crime is impeachable, and not every impeachable offense need be criminal. As Charles L. Black Jr. put it in a seminal pamphlet on impeachment in 1974, “assaults on the integrity of the processes of government” count as impeachable, even if they are not criminal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6a7eb36cb60_story.html?utm_term=.56a717144c6d


Thoughts?

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How does impeachment work? Here is the step-by-step process

The article is straightforward and readable. It describes the steps in the impeachment process; it also describes the outcomes of the only two previous impeachments of U.S. presidents. Johnson was impeached but not convicted and not removed from office in 1868. Clinton was impeached but not convicted and not removed from office in 1999.
The Constitution has made removing a president difficult, contrary to what we see over and over in the media.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

Trump will not be impeached for a variety of reasons. First being he is in office to fulfill some of the end time prophecies. Not that he is so good or anything, but that he is God's choice, and yes God can use an unjust person to fulfill His purposes. We understand that any other President would have been impeached months ago had they done a third of the impeachable offenses that we see Trump has committed. I know most on this forum do not ascribe to the supernatural, but that is the only reason Trump could hold the office.

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I think it was quite obvious to those paying attention election night than God was working. I see numerous things in action which actually are ultimately necessary in the end. First, his election has really awakened the globalists and caused them to galvanize control the best they can and accelerate their plans for a one-world system. This one was obvious from day 1 and I've expounded on that a few times already.

Second, it seems Trump is working against central banks to bring about their collapse, which is required to unload the massive debts of the U.S. and others, and replace the currency with a new standard. While I do understand the necessity of such a move, it also provides the globalists with an opportunity to hijack the process and implement a more digitally-based and easily controlled currency. Such as one that could utilize something like an implant to facilitate (or restrict) and track transactions easier. I have expectations that this will be a reality in the next 5 years.

Third, and this one still requires a bit more speculation for the next few months. I think the peace plan will likely be to one confirmed by the AC in the end, divide Jerusalem, and bring about the building of the next Temple. Concerning the dividing of Jerusalem, I'm curious to see if a tenth of it is earmarked for something in specific (or ends up earmarked that way after all negotiations have ceased), because Revelation 11:13 tells us about an earthquake which will completely destroy a tenth of the city. It just feels like a targeted destruction to me.

More back to the point at hand. With all the whining, anger, and lies attempting to bring Trump down, they won't be able to do a single thing against him until he's done what he's supposed to do, and those really paying attention to what's going on are seeing these building blocks being set into place all around them.

SeventyOne said:

I think it was quite obvious to those paying attention election night than God was working. I see numerous things in action which actually are ultimately necessary in the end. First, his election has really awakened the globalists and caused them to galvanize control the best they can and accelerate their plans for a one-world system. This one was obvious from day 1 and I've expounded on that a few times already.

Second, it seems Trump is working against central banks to bring about their collapse, which is required to unload the massive debts of the U.S. and others, and replace the currency with a new standard. While I do understand the necessity of such a move, it also provides the globalists with an opportunity to hijack the process and implement a more digitally-based and easily controlled currency. Such as one that could utilize something like an implant to facilitate (or restrict) and track transactions easier. I have expectations that this will be a reality in the next 5 years.

Third, and this one still requires a bit more speculation for the next few months. I think the peace plan will likely be to one confirmed by the AC in the end, divide Jerusalem, and bring about the building of the next Temple. Concerning the dividing of Jerusalem, I'm curious to see if a tenth of it is earmarked for something in specific (or ends up earmarked that way after all negotiations have ceased), because Revelation 11:13 tells us about an earthquake which will completely destroy a tenth of the city. It just feels like a targeted destruction to me.

More back to the point at hand. With all the whining, anger, and lies attempting to bring Trump down, they won't be able to do a single thing against him until he's done what he's supposed to do, and those really paying attention to what's going on are seeing these building blocks being set into place all around them.

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That he is apparently running our foreign policy according to the lurid eschatological fantasies of the Christian Right is enough of a reason to turf him out of office in itself.

Belk said:

I think impeachment is the wrong move at this point. Hold the administration up to the light and let the people speak their decision in the election.

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Before or after Donald shoots a few people on Fifth Avenue?

TLK Valentine said:

Before or after Donald shoots a few people on Fifth Avenue?

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Or suggest that the Second Amendment people do the shooting for him.

The same people who think he will be impeached are the same ones who thought Hillary would win the election, Trump would never win, Brett Kavanaugh wouldn't be voted in...etc. When will they learn the bias media spoon feeds you list most of the time. Then you get worked up and think things will work out. But then they don't.

As much as I don't like Trump, I don't like how blind people are to the "FakeNews" the media feeds them.

So impeach him for obstructing an investigation for an event that never happened (Russian collusion) in the first place?

NothingIsImpossible said:

So impeach him for obstructing an investigation for an event that never happened (Russian collusion) in the first place?

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Obstruction doesn't require an underlying crime. The fact that he was trying to derail an investigation is enough, even if the investigation ended up not resulting in him being charged with a crime.

wing2000 said:

George Conway argues Trump should be removed noting correctly that that a criminal conviction is not required for the Congress to impeach a President:

The Constitution provides for impeachment and removal from office for “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” But the history and context of the phrase “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” makes clear that not every statutory crime is impeachable, and not every impeachable offense need be criminal. As Charles L. Black Jr. put it in a seminal pamphlet on impeachment in 1974, “assaults on the integrity of the processes of government” count as impeachable, even if they are not criminal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6a7eb36cb60_story.html?utm_term=.56a717144c6d


Thoughts?

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Poor George, he must be very unhappily married to Kellyanne (I cannot imagine why). I wonder how long he can keep it up before Kellyanne impeaches him? Maybe she already impeached him from the bedroom and is the reason for his obsession with the Don? Who knows, I do think though “assaults on the integrity of the processes of government” have been carried out, but not by the Don. Crazy how people want to claim constitutionalism when it's convenient, then switch gears to arguing in favor of undoing the electoral collage, undoing Presidential powers like the ability to declare a national emergency and then there is the "For the People Act" which is a frontal assault on the Constitution.

NothingIsImpossible said:

So impeach him for obstructing an investigation for an event that never happened (Russian collusion) in the first place?

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You have your answer after the 7th word of your sentence...

SeventyOne said:

This has turned out to be a rather interesting observation of social behavior. It starts with a mass delusion, fed by lies day after day for several years. The sycophantic followers absorb it without question, likely because it justifies their hatred. When the delusion reached its conclusion, the puppet masters all just shift the lie, in this case, to 'obstruction', and they all now say that word over and over, and instead of their followers realizing they've been duped, they continue to follow in lock step with their handlers.

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Or... an investigation looks for solid evidence of one crime, finds circumstantial evidence of several others.

TLK Valentine said:

Or... an investigation looks for solid evidence of one crime, finds circumstantial evidence of several others.

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What's been revealed during this time is the dossier used to initiate all this was faked by political opponents. You all don't need to worry, while the Dems in Congress flap their gums, the actual investigations now will target their cohorts and Fisagate will become a household word soon enough.

wing2000 said:

Historian Michael Beschloss makes a good point:

“As much as Nixon was prone to shade the truth, there were some things he would not say if they were too different from reality,” said presidential historian Michael Beschloss. “Nixon had to go through a mainstream media that if he said things that were not true they would put them in context.”

Trump by contrast has created his own media channels, and been aided by supportive networks of journalists and pundits he frequently praises. “Let’s say the Mueller report had been released in the media climate of 1973 and 1974,” Beschloss added. “This would have been a lot more damaging.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6a7eb36cb60_story.html?utm_term=.a06ec66e1697

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If the Mueller Report had been released in '74, Nixon would have died in prison.

SeventyOne said:

What's been revealed during this time is the dossier used to initiate all this was faked by political opponents.

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Let's correct your counterfactual statements.

1. The dossier didn't initiate this,
and 2: it wasn't faked.

Try harder. Try again.

wing2000 said:

George Conway argues Trump should be removed noting correctly that that a criminal conviction is not required for the Congress to impeach a President:

The Constitution provides for impeachment and removal from office for “Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” But the history and context of the phrase “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” makes clear that not every statutory crime is impeachable, and not every impeachable offense need be criminal. As Charles L. Black Jr. put it in a seminal pamphlet on impeachment in 1974, “assaults on the integrity of the processes of government” count as impeachable, even if they are not criminal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...6a7eb36cb60_story.html?utm_term=.56a717144c6d


Thoughts?

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A vote to impeach, as you know is only the beginning, some representative introduced articles of impeachment, and the speaker either calls for a vote, does not call for a vote, or refers it to committee for review, which is more likely.

If it gets out of committee with a vote to impeach, then the speaker puts it to a vote, or does not put it to a vote, and the motion dies.

let's say the speaker puts it to a vote after committee, it would require a simple 50%(+) 1 majority to advance to the senate. The President of the Senate (the Vice President, or, the Senate Pro Tempore) can either set a date for a Senate Trial, or, refer it to committee for review, which again is more likely.

If the committee votes for a trial, then the President of the Senate would notify the Chief Justice of The Supreme Court, and the President of the United States would receive a trial in the Senate presided over by the Chief Justice. The Members of the Senate act as the Jury, and would have to get a 2/3 majority (67) to vote guilty, and then the President could be removed from office.

However, you could bet that the Full Supreme Court at some point will review this, and make a ruling, what that would be is anyone's guess.I

Additionally, you will have back room deals, and negotiations going on from day one, and will continue until the last vote is cast in the Senate.

The final issue is how much dirt does the President have on leading members of Congress, there offshore accounts, tax fraud, mistresses, secret sins, payoffs, and more. Do not underestimate this.

But in the end, The Senate does not have 67 votes, so it's really just a waste of time, and resources, and it could backfire on the Democrats.

Silverback said:

But in the end, The Senate does not have 67 votes, so it's really just a waste of time, and resources, and it could backfire on the Democrats.

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67 votes are moot... McConnell would never allow an impeachment to happen on his watch.

Silverback said:

But in the end, The Senate does not have 67 votes, so it's really just a waste of time, and resources, and it could backfire on the Democrats.

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Whenever is it “a waste” to do what is right, no matter the outcome...?

Allandavid said:

Whenever is it “a waste” to do what is right, no matter the outcome...?

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When it can be used as a weapon against you. Trump is not going to be removed from office via impeachment, no matter what. The House knows this, and knows impeachment will only backfire on them and potentially result in Trump being reelected, and possibly losing their majority in the House.

Arcangl86 said:

When it can be used as a weapon against you. Trump is not going to be removed from office via impeachment, no matter what. The House knows this, and knows impeachment will only backfire on them and potentially result in Trump being reelected, and possibly losing their majority in the House.

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I’m not so sure about your second sentence.

Yes, it seems very unlikely that 20 or so Republican Senators would vote to convict. But consider this....any impeachment trial would take place against a background of a looming Senate election. A significant number of Republicans are already looking very vulnerable in that election. Are those people going to be happy to be seen defending the indefensible?

And further, I imagine that, at this stage in the Watergate investigations, it probably may have appeared unlikely that a majority of R’s would turn against that particular crook...but they did.

And I’ll go even further...when has it been considered in your country not to do what is right, even if the consequences are painful or produce an undesired outcome...? We are constantly regaled with stories by/about Americans pitting themselves against overwhelming odds, because they believe in the course they are following is the right one....firemen racing into burning towers, outnumbered marines hurling themselves into showers of bullets, school students protesting in the streets over their places of learning becoming target ranges, black people in the 60’s marching to demand nothing more than rights that are equal with other citizens, a president promising to place one of his citizens on the surface of the moon, “not because it was easy, but because it was hard”...you could probably give dozens of other examples.

The day you folk give up on following the right course, just because you can’t guarantee it’s outcome......? Well, that’s the day Rome begins to crumble...