Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

tall73 · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Except that he doesn't claim that. (feel free to provide a reference if I'm wrong)

This is why I think it would never get passed if Bernie wins. Even passing one of these various tax tweaks would be a giant showdown, with hundred page bills where people would slip in loopholes to replace the old loopholes.

You need a sweeping tax reform. To my thinking the most straight-forward would be a value added tax. Everyone spends. The rich spend more than the poor. Everyone helps pay for what is needed.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 20, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
The Bible says that money is the root of all evil and it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter into heaven. The Bible says to be free from the love of money.

I agree. I have (had) two goals regarding money. I wanted to have enough money so that I not only don't worry about money, but I don't even think about money. Happily I have reached that goal. I have reached the point where I can 'afford to be generous'.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 20, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
1 Timothy 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Yes - the love of money. However, you previously stated, "The Bible says that money is the root of all evil"

Shiloh Raven · Apr 20, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Yes - the love of money. However, you previously stated, "The Bible says that money is the root of all evil"

I meant to say the love of money. That was my mistake.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 20, 2019

Albion · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Except that he doesn't claim that. (feel free to provide a reference if I'm wrong)

I've seen and heard it with my own eyes and ears, so I'm calling your effort a failure.

Thess · Apr 20, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
I meant to say the love of money. That was my mistake.

That could have gotten past me too.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 20, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
I meant to say the love of money. That was my mistake.

The bible also says that "money answers everything", meaning that everything can be expressed monetarily, whether good or bad.

Shiloh Raven · Apr 20, 2019

Thess said:
That could have gotten past me too.

I read that verse in my mind with the love of money, but my thought didn't make it into my post.

Thess · Apr 20, 2019

Re: money.

I'm trying to produce several books that will be incredibly helpful, considering my background. I pray that God's will would be done regarding any proceeds. If He thinks that the work is good, money will be the reward. If not, that's fine too. I also pray that if He feels that I would abuse money that He would render this "work" to nothing and strip it away from me, to even remove my own choice to abuse.

I also pray that the "work" would be successful, for having already sold my home and am almost finished with getting rid of all of my other things so that I can give my money to those who are in true need, God knows that I will honor HIS money that He might allow me to co-manage for Him. These are monies that are not mine, and that from the sale of my own home. This is [not] my money, but His and it is being used to benefit His Kingdom, not mine.

I am a slave to Jesus. I wish I could meet another.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Albion said:
I've seen and heard it with my own eyes and ears, so I'm calling your effort a failure.

I think you probably misunderstood or misinterpreted. I certainly don't find it in anything recorded in the media. I've also provided you with what he is saying is his plan for paying for those things which proves that he does not believe he can just spend more without paying for it somehow.

I'm calling your effort proven to be a failure.

Albion · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
I think you probably misunderstood or misinterpreted.

That would be virtually impossible, given the circumstances.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
The bible also says that "money answers everything", meaning that everything can be expressed monetarily, whether good or bad.

We're talking about using money as the ultimate measure or "success". In context, the verse that says "money answers everything" is talking about one level of measure that is worldly. It is used as a metaphor for spiritual matters. The context is everything.

To put that in the context of God's Word in its entirety it is clear that material wealth is not the ultimate measure, it is not the true God. You cannot worship both God and mammon, you will hate one and love the other. It's just that simple. Quote-mining for snippets of scripture and presenting them out of context doesn't bolster your argument but rather opens the door to disprove it.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Albion said:
That would be virtually impossible, given the circumstances.

Again, it wouldn't be, and I've provided proof for what I'm saying while you are providing anecdote. And yet again, feel free to prove your claim and/or disprove mine.

Albion · Apr 20, 2019

I reported what has happened. You apparently wish it were otherwise. Yes, I get that.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Thess said:
Re: money.

I'm trying to produce several books that will be incredibly helpful, considering my background. I pray that God's will would be done regarding any proceeds. If He thinks that the work is good, money will be the reward. If not, that's fine too. I also pray that if He feels that I would abuse money that He would render this "work" to nothing and strip it away from me, to even remove my own choice to abuse.

I also pray that the "work" would be successful, for having already sold my home and am almost finished with getting rid of all of my other things so that I can give my money to those who are in true need, God knows that I will honor HIS money that He might allow me to co-manage for Him. These are monies that are not mine, and that from the sale of my own home. This is [not] my money, but His and it is being used to benefit His Kingdom, not mine.

I am a slave to Jesus. I wish I could meet another.

Very well put. All that we have is because God gives it to us. Money, house, health, etc. etc. are given to us by God. He can take it away or allow it to be taken away. He does what is in line with his purpose.

When someone gains materially it is not a mechanism of their being "smart". Their being smart may have something to do with it, but it ultimately is in the hands of God whether their "smarts" will be manifested in material success. Many "smart" people fail materially, many "dumb" people succeed materially. This is why material gain is not a good measure of "smart" or "dumb", of "lazy" or "hard-working", etc.

People like to tell themselves it is because they want to build themselves up. It's purely ego. It's purely saying "I WILL become....." and putting one's own will above God's.

It is every person's right to do that and I don't begrudge someone doing so. Where I have a problem is where people try to also claim that this is a Christian belief when in fact putting one's own ego and will above God is the opposite of a Christian belief.

You did an excellent job explaining it, thank you for that!

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Albion said:
I reported what has happened. You apparently wish it were otherwise. Yes, I get that.

I reported it with evidence. You wish it were otherwise and you wish that your report would be believed with no evidence. Yes, I get that.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
We're talking about using money as the ultimate measure or "success".

No, you are talking about that. You are laying down a gauntlet that if one is rich in money they are poor spiritually and vice verse. One can have a lot of money without 'loving' it. Most people have a comfort level regarding money. Some need more than others, if for no other reason than security.

Nithavela · Apr 20, 2019

tall73 said:
This is why I think it would never get passed if Bernie wins. Even passing one of these various tax tweaks would be a giant showdown, with hundred page bills where people would slip in loopholes to replace the old loopholes.

You need a sweeping tax reform. To my thinking the most straight-forward would be a value added tax. Everyone spends. The rich spend more than the poor. Everyone helps pay for what is needed.

The rich dont spend proportionately more than the poor of their total wealth/income. Once they have everything they want, they reinvest their money.

Most poor spend 100% of their income and live from paycheck to paycheck while for the rich, its not unusual to only spend a few percent.

So in the end, this would be something that would punish the poor, again.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 20, 2019

Nithavela said:
The rich dont spend proportionately more than the poor of their total wealth/income. Once they have everything they want, they reinvest their money.

Most poor spend 100% of their income and live from paycheck to paycheck while for the rich, its not unusual to only spend a few percent.

So in the end, this would be something that would punish the poor, again.

All of my wealth is in money (I have old furniture, car, cheap clothes, etc.) and is available for borrowing at low interest rates. It also earns low interest rates, thus stabilizing the credit market. :holy:

Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

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