Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

Nithavela · Apr 20, 2019

Desk trauma said:
By adding massive new spending to the federal budget. The numbers have been put forward, and hand waved away , already in the thread I don’t plan to rehash them.

Just by paying more money for everyone, healthcare in the USA can't be improved. The first step would be to break the high pricing americans have to suffer under. At the moment, hospitals take what they can get away with and then leave their patients with debts for the rest of their life, as well as their decendants.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
He obviously can run and lead, and I never said otherwise. That having been said - is it the kindest thing to do to put him in office when he is so very aged?

If he can run and lead and he wants to run and lead is it kind to prohibit him from that because of his age? Do you even understand what age discrimination is? Do you even know that age discrimination is illegal? It's sad that there are people who think the way you do and they commit age discrimination against seniors every day.

You're saying that if you were a hiring manager considering someone Bernie's age for a job you would actively discriminate against him and not give him the job simply because of his age. That's a crime, literally. You would get into trouble for doing that with anyone else. You're simply applying it to an elected official, but it's no less age discrimination. It's no different from denying someone a job solely based on race, religion, gender identity, sexual preference, etc.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
I'm a liberal and I happen to agree with Ttalkkugjil. I think Bernie is much too old. I'm not sure that he would survive the four years of a presidency. And to be fair on the matter, I think Trump is too old as well. I would much rather see younger candidates (mid-forties or a bit older) campaign. I think the perpetual trend of older white men should come to an end and younger people should step in. I don't say that to be offensive and discriminatory. I think it's just a reality in this progressive day and age. The fact is, older men (white or otherwise) don't appropriately represent younger Americans and the current diversity in this country. I think American politics needs to evolve and reflect these points.

Some people think Bernie is too Jewish to be president. Some think he's too Atheist to be president. Some people think that other candidates are too female, gay, Christian, Muslim, Hispanic, Black, or other protected statuses.

What you all share is an equal level of discrimination.

Just make sure you're consistent and apply this discrimination against Joe Biden as well.

Funny but Trump supporters who get demonized constantly by liberals don't discriminate against him for his being "too old". Not once. And in fact with all the criticism the Trump haters have for Trump his age is never among them.

This is just the product of the anti-Bernie campaign - it's boilerplate Bernie slandering because he's an easy target.

I just can't stomach the hypocrisy that people who claim to be liberal or progressive would engage in such heinous discrimination that is no better than discriminating against someone for being black, jewish, gay, etc.

Sparagmos · Apr 20, 2019

Desk trauma said:
By adding massive new spending to the federal budget. The numbers have been put forward, and hand waved away , already in the thread I don’t plan to rehash them.

I’ve read this whole thread. I don’t see anything showing how single payer healthcare, which costs considerably less per Capita in other countries than we spend per Capita in our country (about $10,000/yr per person) would bankrupt the U.S. people would simply pay more in taxes and far less in insurance premiums. We are already spending a fortune on healthcare, more than anyone. The money is there, we are already spending it. Why not remove the money we are spending on PROFIT for health insurance companies from the equation?

Desk trauma · Apr 20, 2019

Sparagmos said:
I don’t see anything showing how single payer healthcare, which costs considerably less per Capita in other countries than we spend per Capita in our country (about $10,000/yr per person) would bankrupt the U.S. people would simply pay more in taxes...

That’s the rub, we are already massively out spending what tax revenue covers. Introducing new spending and programs would only compound the problem.

Sparagmos · Apr 20, 2019

Thess said:
And socialism would enter the country, the rich and wealthy, the ones with the brains, will leave the country and what will be left will be idiots with no one to earn money for the masses. Hello weak and pathetic America....you're about to be toppled if you let this happen.

You think rich people are inherently smarter? For real?

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
I think it's similar to telling an older senior citizen that they are too old to drive. There comes a time when older people like him aren't capable to carry on like they once did when they were younger.

No, it's not at all similar to that. As someone who had to "take the keys" from both of my parents I can tell you it is not their age but rather their health that is the determining factor. My father had sight issues and other health problems earlier and we had to "take the keys" from him before he was 70. My mother was fine until her dementia set in and she was able to drive until she was 75. My uncle, who is still alive at 91, is still driving and he drives better than many people I know (including his own daughter). Should we "take the keys" from him because he's well past Bernie's age? You are saying you would do such a thing. I am saying that that is exactly what age discrimination is.

I don't know if you are simply trying to justify anti-Bernie sentiment you already have or if you truly don't understand what age discrimination is, but either way, you're being discriminatory in a way that would be illegal if you were a hiring manager considering Bernie for a job and denied him that job based solely on his age. And you've admitted that you are against Bernie solely based on his age - you've admitted you have no reason at this time to believe that he is incapable or in danger for his health (which isn't really your business anyway, that's his choice to make for himself).

Your way of thinking leads to more age discrimination. A waiter tells a senior that they can't sell them a menu item because of their age and they fear for the senior's health. A clerk in a store tells a senior they can't sell that person an item because they fear for their health. Where does it stop? It doesn't stop.

It's sickening to me that our society accepts age discrimination and even openly admits to practicing it and encouraging it. It's tantamount to racial and other forms of discrimination and is recognized as such by the government who has made it just as illegal as those other forms of discrimination.

Now I know why my friend Jessica has had such a hard time getting a job. Jessica is not a senior citizen but she is wheelchair bound and has been her whole life. So many "concerned" potential employers who were "showing kindness" to her by denying her job offers based on her wheelchair, is that the kind of world you want? Apparently.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Desk trauma said:
That’s the rub, we are already massively out spending what tax revenue covers. Introducing new spending and programs would only compound the problem.

That's the rub, what we are already massively outspending would cease to exist because the costs would be reduced to a fraction of what they are now. The only people who are against universal health care are those who want to have us all pay 10 times more for health care as well as have people suffer and die in the meantime.

I think also as an atheist it's hard for you to see this from a Christian standpoint. Libertarianism is notoriously anti-Christian because it directly contradicts God's Word. But as a Christian I am going to follow God's Word and part of that is making sure that I support policies that help people instead of hurting them. I also want to support policies which detract from money worship whereas Libertarianism is based on pure money worship and is directly against Christianity. in Christianity, in God's Word, we are told plainly and directly "Man cannot serve two masters...you cannot worship both God and mammon (money)".

Sparagmos · Apr 20, 2019

Desk trauma said:
That’s the rub, we are already massively out spending what tax revenue covers. Introducing new spending and programs would only compound the problem.

If we increase tax revenue in the same amount as the spending, what is the problem? It will save the taxpayers at the end of the day, since they won’t be spending money on insurance premiums and deductibles. Like I said, we already spend $10,000 per year per person on healthcare. My employer will happily write a $800/mo check to Uncle Sam for my insurance rather than the $1,100 check they are writing to the insurance company, as an example. And we are an incredibly wealthy country. We simply under tax the very wealth and corporations.

Desk trauma · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
That's the rub, what we are already massively outspending would cease to exist because the costs would be reduced to a fraction of what they are now.

We are currently in deficit spending, that will not go away with the introduction of more spending.

I’m sorry, I don’t believe in magic.

Desk trauma · Apr 20, 2019

Sparagmos said:
If we increase tax revenue in the same amount as the spending, what is the problem?

It’s a problem because raising taxes, even just to cover current spending let alone new programs, is a non starter.

Thess · Apr 20, 2019

Sparagmos said:
You think rich people are inherently smarter? For real?

You don't think that the "rich" have more going for them than the complainers in this world who have no drive, no desire but to take money from those that are working hard to get ahead?

Yes.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Desk trauma said:
We are currently in deficit spending, that will not go away with the introduction of more spending.

I’m sorry, I don’t believe in magic.

That will not go away regardless. In the meantime, we can reduce the deficit if we can save on healthcare as a nation because that will put more money in people's pockets and increase productivity as a result. That will lead to higher tax revenues which will further offset the deficit.

Anyway, I don't believe anybody who claims to be worried about the deficit because nothing is ever done about it by either Dems or Republicans but when it's convenient it is used as an excuse.

Now they (and folks like you who either believe them or want to simply use the excuse conveniently as they are) tell us "NO you can't have real healthcare - because deficit!"

What Bernie is proving is that nobody buys that hack excuse anymore, it has no teeth and has no weight. Who cares about "the deficit" when they can't get insulin because it's too expensive even WITH health insurance? Who cares about "the deficit" when your mother is dying because she doesn't have adequate health insurance to get the best care possible?

Nobody, that's who. People aren't buying into these nonsense excuses anymore, it's just that simple.

When they ask for 750 billion for defense spending nobody says "but the deficit!!!!"
When they ask for Trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy nobody says "but the deficit!!!!"

But ask for health care - ask for people's very LIVES to be helped and saved - and all of a sudden... "but...but..but... DEFICIT!!!!!! NO TO HEALTHCARE - BECAUSE DEFICIT!!!"

The deficit excuse doesn't fly with the vast majority of people and rightfully so. Make changes elsewhere if you're worried about the deficit, don't make people suffer and die while you're giving billionaires and corporations tax cuts to the tune of trillions of dollars.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

Thess said:
You don't think that the "rich" have more going for them than the complainers in this world who have no drive, no desire but to take money from those that are working hard to get ahead?

Yes.

What's "more going for them"?

According to the Bible, money/material wealth is not what God considers to be "wealth". I know plenty of monetarily/materially poor people who are abundantly wealthy in the eyes of God and our brothers and sisters in Christ who understand what true "wealth" is.

This is the major problem in this country - there are people who put money and material wealth up as the measure of success and those who do not.

In Christianity, the Bible is very clear of what God thinks of material wealth as opposed to what God considers to be true wealth.

Who's more wealthy: CEO of Wells Fargo who makes millions but doesn't serve God or the missionary church pastor who has hardly any money but is winning souls to Christ?

OldWiseGuy · Apr 20, 2019

Sparagmos said:
You think rich people are inherently smarter? For real?

Oh yeah.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 20, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Oh yeah.

The Bible doesn't (which means God doesn't, because the Bible is His Word).

Sparagmos · Apr 20, 2019

Thess said:
You don't think that the "rich" have more going for them than the complainers in this world who have no drive, no desire but to take money from those that are working hard to get ahead?

Yes.

So everyone who isn’t rich is a complainer with no drive? My guess is that a majority of those on this forum aren’t rich. I’m certainly not. I do work 60 plus hours a week.

Where do you think the rich would relocate to? Most of the more desireable places to live - that are safe and have good infrastructure, healthcare, and education are more “socialist” than the U.S.

Desk trauma · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
That will not go away regardless. In the meantime, we can reduce the deficit if we can save on healthcare as a nation because that will put more money in people's pockets and increase productivity as a result. That will lead to higher tax revenues which will further offset the deficit.

Remove healthcare, insert tax cut and that’s the same nonsense the last two republican administrations peddled. I didn’t believe in their magic either.

When they ask for 750 billion for defense spending nobody says "but the deficit!!!!"

When they ask for Trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy nobody says "but the deficit!!!!"

Hi, over here, I object to both those things on that basis. Sorry to derail your narrative.

Thess · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
What's "more going for them"?

According to the Bible, money/material wealth is not what God considers to be "wealth". I know plenty of monetarily/materially poor people who are abundantly wealthy in the eyes of God and our brothers and sisters in Christ who understand what true "wealth" is.

This is the major problem in this country - there are people who put money and material wealth up as the measure of success and those who do not.

In Christianity, the Bible is very clear of what God thinks of material wealth as opposed to what God considers to be true wealth.

Who's more wealthy: CEO of Wells Fargo who makes millions but doesn't serve God or the missionary church pastor who has hardly any money but is winning souls to Christ?

You're talking about Christianity; I am not. I'm talking about keeping money in this country so as to preserve it. If that doesn't make sense, then I really have nothing left to say.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 20, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
That will not go away regardless. In the meantime, we can reduce the deficit if we can save on healthcare as a nation because that will put more money in people's pockets and increase productivity as a result. That will lead to higher tax revenues which will further offset the deficit.

Anyway, I don't believe anybody who claims to be worried about the deficit because nothing is ever done about it by either Dems or Republicans but when it's convenient it is used as an excuse.

Now they (and folks like you who either believe them or want to simply use the excuse conveniently as they are) tell us "NO you can't have real healthcare - because deficit!"

What Bernie is proving is that nobody buys that hack excuse anymore, it has no teeth and has no weight. Who cares about "the deficit" when they can't get insulin because it's too expensive even WITH health insurance? Who cares about "the deficit" when your mother is dying because she doesn't have adequate health insurance to get the best care possible?

Nobody, that's who. People aren't buying into these nonsense excuses anymore, it's just that simple.

When they ask for 750 billion for defense spending nobody says "but the deficit!!!!"
When they ask for Trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy nobody says "but the deficit!!!!"

But ask for health care - ask for people's very LIVES to be helped and saved - and all of a sudden... "but...but..but... DEFICIT!!!!!! NO TO HEALTHCARE - BECAUSE DEFICIT!!!"

The deficit excuse doesn't fly with the vast majority of people and rightfully so. Make changes elsewhere if you're worried about the deficit, don't make people suffer and die while you're giving billionaires and corporations tax cuts to the tune of trillions of dollars.

Actually a basic lifestyle change would result in both lower healthcare costs and lower defense costs. A physically weak and sick nation needs a gigantic healthcare system, and, a morally weak nation needs a gigantic military force.

Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

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Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

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Front row at the dumpster fire of the republic

Well-Known Member

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Well-Known Member

Front row at the dumpster fire of the republic

Front row at the dumpster fire of the republic

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Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

Wake me when it's soup.

Politically Liberal Christian Fundamentalist

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Front row at the dumpster fire of the republic

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Wake me when it's soup.

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