How to protect yourself from Legalism

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DeepWater

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I'm so tired of hearing that those that obey God are trying to HELP HIM and are INSULTING HIM.

If you insult Grace, and the Blood of Christ, by coming to a Forum like this one, to publically prove that you are adding your works to the Cross to save yourself, i dont expect that you will appreciate what im teaching.
Perhaps you can explain why you are not Trusting in Christ to Keep you saved, and want to instead give me your reasons for trying to keep yourself saved?
Do you even have a clue as to the reason you started believing that you have to keep yourself saved?
Was it your minister that led you to this idea?
How did you go from Grace to "works for salvation"?
Do you even know?
 
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DeepWater

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You're teaching that we are not to obey God.

Please read James 3:1 before you continue.

James 3:1
1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

Remember that to whom much is given, much will be required.

Also, learn what Jesus meant when He told the Apostles to go and teach what HE had spent over 3 years teaching them...Mathew 28:19-20

WHAT did Jesus teach them and His disciples?

No, im teaching that people that live in James, Hebrews, and Matthew, and the Old Testament, are ignorant of Paul's doctrine, and that is why they are trying to save themselves, by their lifestyle.
So, if they are actually saved, they are absolutely "fallen from grace", and are in the flesh, as Paul teaches about them, in Galatians.
You might try reading this epistle, as its directed at all who are "working to stay saved", instead of
THIS :

Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
 
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GodsGrace101

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If you insult Grace, and the Blood of Christ, by coming to a Forum like this one, to publically prove that you are adding your works to the Cross to save yourself, i dont expect that you will appreciate what im teaching.
Perhaps you can explain why you are not Trusting in Christ to Keep you saved, and want to instead give me your reasons for trying to keep yourself saved?
Do you even have a clue as to the reason you started believing that you have to keep yourself saved?
Was it your minister that led you to this idea?
How did you go from Grace to "works for salvation"?
Do you even know?
I didn't speak to you about my minister.
I gave you scriptural reasons why you're iincorrect in your beliefs.

God has always wanted obedience...this idea did not start in the century, but has always been believed.

Instead of YOUR OPINION, why not reply to my verses and copy some of your own that you believe state that good deeds/obedience are not necessary to be saved, and that one could live how he wants to (which was YOUR statement) and still be saved.

Thanks.
 
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DeepWater

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I didn't speak to you about my minister.
I gave you scriptural reasons why you're iincorrect in your beliefs.

God has always wanted obedience...this idea did not start in the century, but has always been believed.

Instead of YOUR OPINION, why not reply to my verses and copy some of your own that you believe state that good deeds/obedience are not necessary to be saved, and that one could live how he wants to (which was YOUR statement) and still be saved.

Thanks.

Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians to deal with you, and your theology.
Do you not realize that the letter that Paul wrote to the Galatians, is talking directly to and about, a person who says they are saved, and has gotten away from Grace, (fallen), and is now running around trying to ruin the faith of other believers by teaching them that "works" and Not CHRIST< are what keeps a born again Christian, saved?

So, Paul and Galatians have already, 2000 yrs ago, responded to your cut and paste effort to prove you are a Legalist.
Its proven. You dont have to keep proving it.
God knows it, i know it, and you like to keep bragging about it using scripture, just like the rest of the Legalists will continue to do on this Thread, and everywhere else then can spread it.

Galatians 1:8
 
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GodsGrace101

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No, im teaching that people that live in James, Hebrews, and Matthew, and the Old Testament, are ignorant of Paul's doctrine, and that is why they are trying to save themselves, by their lifestyle.
So, if they are actually saved, they are absolutely "fallen from grace", and are in the flesh, as Paul teaches about them, in Galatians.
You might try reading this epistle, as its directed at all who are "working to stay saved", instead of
THIS :

Philippians 1:6
Hebrews 12:2
Maybe we could eliminate James, Hebrews and Matthew from the N.T. if they disturb you so much.
I quoted to you what JESUS said,,,not Paul or James,,,I did show that Paul AGREES with Jesus.
You believe they don't agree?

IOW, Jesus taught what He did for over 3 years and then He told Paul to teach something different?

Maybe we should remove the book and gospel of John too since Jesus said many things in that book that speaks to good deeds and obedience to Him.

Philippians 1:6
Do you or do you NOT believe in free will? You didn't reply.

God will finish the work He began in us as long as we ALLOW HIM to. Jesus Himself said He would send the Holy Spiri to be our parclete...John 16:7
Jesus said He had to go away so the Holy Spirit could come to us.

The Holy Spirit dwells in a temple.
We are not that temple if we don't live according to how Jesus would want us to.

Hebrews 12:2
Yes, very good. But what does this say about OUR part in our salvation? Just read verse 1...

Hebrews 12:1-3
Jesus, the Example

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Notice the title of these verses...Jesus is our example. This is also the atonement theory of Moral Influence.

Notice that WE are told TO RUN the race set before us...Jesus did HIS part, now we do ours.

See also:
Philippians 2:12
12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Paul tell us to WORK OUT our salvation...
(should we eliminate Hebrews too?)
 
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DeepWater

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Maybe we could eliminate James, Hebrews and Matthew from the N.T. if they disturb you so much.
I quoted to you what JESUS said,,,not Paul or James,,,I did show that Paul AGREES with Jesus.
You believe they don't agree?

IOW, Jesus taught what He did for over 3 years and then He told Paul to teach something different?

Maybe we should remove the book and gospel of John too since Jesus said many things in that book that speaks to good deeds and obedience to Him.

Philippians 1:6
Do you or do you NOT believe in free will? You didn't reply.

God will finish the work He began in us as long as we ALLOW HIM to. Jesus Himself said He would send the Holy Spiri to be our parclete...John 16:7
Jesus said He had to go away so the Holy Spirit could come to us.

The Holy Spirit dwells in a temple.
We are not that temple if we don't live according to how Jesus would want us to.

Hebrews 12:2
Yes, very good. But what does this say about OUR part in our salvation? Just read verse 1...

Hebrews 12:1-3
Jesus, the Example

1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Notice the title of these verses...Jesus is our example. This is also the atonement theory of Moral Influence.

Notice that WE are told TO RUN the race set before us...Jesus did HIS part, now we do ours.

See also:
Philippians 2:12
12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

Paul tell us to WORK OUT our salvation...
(should we eliminate Hebrews too?)

There is no need to try to teach me Legalism.
Ok?
So, no need to present your case, as you might realize i just wrote 10,000 words, describing you and what you believe.
So, if you want to teach Galatians 1:8, then go ahead, but, no need to teach it to me.

Here is a question for you.
I realize that i can't save myself and i can't keep myself saved.
If i could, then Jesus didn't need to come here and be butchered on a Cross for me.
Why dont you realize this?
 
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GodsGrace101

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There is no need to try to teach me Legalism.
Ok?
So, no need to present your case, as you might realize i just wrote 10,000 words, describing you and what you believe.
So, if you want to teach Galatians 1:8, then go ahead, but, no need to teach it to me.

Here is a question for you.
I realize that i can't save myself and i can't keep myself saved.
If i could, then Jesus didn't need to come here and be butchered on a Cross for me.
Why dont you realize this?
Where's the Scripture?
You dont' have any.

You post heresies.
1 Timothy 4:1
1But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
 
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GodsGrace101

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Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians to deal with you, and your theology.
Do you not realize that the letter that Paul wrote to the Galatians, is talking directly to and about, a person who says they are saved, and has gotten away from Grace, (fallen), and is now running around trying to ruin the faith of other believers by teaching them that "works" and Not CHRIST< are what keeps a born again Christian, saved?

So, Paul and Galatians have already, 2000 yrs ago, responded to your cut and paste effort to prove you are a Legalist.
Its proven. You dont have to keep proving it.
God knows it, i know it, and you like to keep bragging about it using scripture, just like the rest of the Legalists will continue to do on this Thread, and everywhere else then can spread it.

Galatians 1:8
Which "works" would that be?
Do you know?
 
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GodsGrace101

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Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians to deal with you, and your theology.
Do you not realize that the letter that Paul wrote to the Galatians, is talking directly to and about, a person who says they are saved, and has gotten away from Grace, (fallen), and is now running around trying to ruin the faith of other believers by teaching them that "works" and Not CHRIST< are what keeps a born again Christian, saved?

So, Paul and Galatians have already, 2000 yrs ago, responded to your cut and paste effort to prove you are a Legalist.
Its proven. You dont have to keep proving it.
God knows it, i know it, and you like to keep bragging about it using scripture, just like the rest of the Legalists will continue to do on this Thread, and everywhere else then can spread it.

Galatians 1:8
Yes sir.
I like to post scripture...
NOT my OPINION...
 
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timewerx

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theology that replaces Grace with works. ... Galatians 1:8......"Legalism".

Grace produces faith and faith produces works.

100% approved by Paul :oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

And love.....

1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Grace produces faith and faith produces works.

100% approved by Paul :oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

And love.....

1 John 3:18
Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.
When Paul speaks about "works", he's speaking about the 613 O.C. laws.

This does not mean, as some believe, that we are not to obey the 10 commandments or do good deeds...The N.T. calls us to live out our faith with love and by doing good to all.


Galatians 6:10
So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
 
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timewerx

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When Paul speaks about "works", he's speaking about the 613 O.C. laws.

This does not mean, as some believe, that we are not to obey the 10 commandments or do good deeds...The N.T. calls us to live out our faith with love and by doing good to all.


Galatians 6:10
So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

Pardon my use of words. I should have said "fruits" right?

That's true about Galatians 6:10. St. John supplanted that teaching in greater detail in 1 John 3:15-18

Indeed there are many things we can do that is good to others, as well things that would be bad to others (which we must avoid). Things like arrogance, indifference, lack of compassion/care/courtesy, unforgiving, unruly / wild behavior, etc can actually hurt people in many ways, including physical and by causing accidents and we must avoid such things.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Pardon my use of words. I should have said "fruits" right?

That's true about Galatians 6:10. St. John supplanted that teaching in greater detail in 1 John 3:15-18

Indeed there are many things we can do that is good to others, as well things that would be bad to others (which we must avoid). Things like arrogance, indifference, lack of compassion/care/courtesy, unforgiving, unruly / wild behavior, etc can actually hurt people in many ways, including physical and by causing accidents and we must avoid such things.
Fruits is different from "works" or good deeds.
Fruits are received from us and given to us by the Holy Spirit.

They can be found in
Galatians 5:22-25
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

There are 9:
LOVE
JOY
PEACE
PATIENCE
KINDNESS
GOODNESS
FAITHFULNESS
GENTLENESS
SELF-CONTROL

The good we do is our reasonable service that we do for God...as HIS laborers:

1 Corinthians 15:58 and many more.
58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.


In Luke 6:35 Jesus said:
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men."

We could say that good works/deeds are what we do for others and fruit is what we receive from the Holy Spirit for ourselves; which help us in our Christian growth.
 
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timewerx

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Fruits is different from "works" or good deeds.
Fruits are received from us and given to us by the Holy Spirit.

They can be found in
Galatians 5:22-25
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

There are 9:
LOVE
JOY
PEACE
PATIENCE
KINDNESS
GOODNESS
FAITHFULNESS
GENTLENESS
SELF-CONTROL

The good we do is our reasonable service that we do for God...as HIS laborers:

1 Corinthians 15:58 and many more.
58Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.


In Luke 6:35 Jesus said:
"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men."

We could say that good works/deeds are what we do for others and fruit is what we receive from the Holy Spirit for ourselves; which help us in our Christian growth.

Yup, it goes back to love :)

The bottomline is action as 1 John 3:18 says.
 
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NeedyFollower

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Saint,

If you've been invested, over time, on any Christian Forum, then you have come to the realization, that about 30% of the people who use a Christian Forum are sincere, and sincerely interested in learning more, growing more, and want to use a Christian Forum, for these reasons. But then, you have the other 70% who live on these forums, with no desire to learn, but only a desire to fight, create chaos, and if possible, create confusion within someone else's belief system, regarding their Salvation.
And the worst of these offenders, are Legalists. And you need to protect yourself from their poisonous heretical bible twisting mania, as it can infect you, and truly harm your walk with the Lord , and more.

Lets get to it.

So,... Your New Testament explains that you are to "Discern", .. And this is related to life situations, personal desire, purpose in life, but it also means you are to do it with other people and certainly with other Christians.
The scripture that supports this is : 1 Corinthians 2:15.
Saint, being able to discern will keep you safe in life, and will keep you from being led into dark theology that many on a Christian forum would have you believe, to your hurt.
Now, how do you discern if a person is a Legalist? Well, here are the classic signs.....
First, this heretic will live and obsess on the Old Testament, and also on only 3 books in the new Testament.

1. Hebrews Chapters 4...6....10.
2. James
3. Matthew

Next, this heretic will try to convince you that you can Lose your Salvation. They will be found on a Christian forum, or anywhere, trying to do this to other believers.
They will start Threads, they will endlessly rant and post, always using the Old Testament, James, Hebrews, and Matthew.
Pay attention to this.
You'll begin to discern it.

Next, they will always talk about works, commandments, enduring to the end, dead faith, holding onto your faith, and never will they be able to deal with Pauline Theology, or believe that Salvation is completed.
They will never accept Grace without the condition of WORKS being added to it, to "keep you saved".
"Yes, i know that Jesus shed His blood to save us....BUT, here is the rest of the commandments, enduring to the end, holding unto your faith, confessing your sins.....that you must DO< to STAY SAVED">..

Discern this Saint, as you will be hearing all about it, very soon.

Now keep in mind that the Legalist, does not believe that God & Christ will KEEP THEM SAVED.....so, their entire Christianity is a bitter, joyless, self effort to do it for themselves, and this is why they are endlessly trying to convince you that you need to be doing it also.
They believe that you can lose your salvation, because they find it impossible to TRUST that God and Christ, will keep them Saved.
They read Philippians 1:6, that explains that God started their salvation IN THEM< and will complete it.....and they refuse to accept this, as they are convinced that they need to keep themselves saved, = "Self- Righteousness".
They read Hebrews 12:2, that says that Jesus started their Faith and will complete/perfect it, and they refuse to accept this, and instead will try to keep themselves saved by "holding unto their faith".

Understand, that Faith does not save you.. but rather God SAVES YOU thru your faith.
Faith is not the Savior.....The Savior is Christ on the Cross.
Faith does not save you, but rather God giving you His righteousness, and HAS, if you are born again, makes you acceptable to Him, is what is saving you, right this very second.

So, i mention that you are to discern any teacher, and the best way to discern them, is to find out what they believe about Salvation, and in fact, if they even understand it.
Consider that if a person does not understand God's Grace, (Salvation), then how can they understand anything else in a New Testament.
As obviously, if you dont understand Grace, The Atonement, Justification by Faith, then how can you understand anything else that matters, regarding the New Testament, and "sound doctrine"?
Our New Testament, tells us to "establish our Hearts, with Grace"...Hebrews 13:9
This means to nail down, what Paul has taught us as "sound doctrine" regarding "Justification by Faith", so that you are not led astray by heretics.

Rest assured that if you are ever going to grow in Grace, and receive more revelation and New Testament understanding, then you have to study, not read, but study, Paul's epistles.
And not just a little bit....
As this Apostle, is the only one that Jesus chose to personally give to you what you know that is "Church Doctrine"
Everything that a real student of the word needs to know, that matters, that is the "main thing", "sound doctrine" "church doctrine" ...= you will find and discover by studying the words of Paul.
Paul is the only apostle who told you to "be a follower of ME, as I follow Christ"... 1 Corinthians 11:1
IN 2nd Peter, Peter says that Paul's letters are "scripture", and equal to the Torah. (OT).
Imagine an apostle saying that another apostles letters are equal to SCRIPTURE, the word of GOD. But that is he wrote, as that is a fact.
This is why most of our NT< is composed by Paul.
So, this is one more way for you to discern a Christian's soundness, and accuracy, and truthfulness, regarding what they believe. Notice if they are of the understanding that Paul's Theology, and His Epistles matter most to the believer, regarding understanding what God wants you to know, ...."sound doctrine"..."church doctrine".
Legalists, have a spiritual blindness toward's Paul. They will twist one or 2 verses of his verses to try to teach you that you can lose it....but, they have no grounding in his Theology, are not familiar with his letters, and will never be, as Paul is the one that explains in Galatians 1:8 that they and their theology, are "cursed of God". And Saint, when you run into one of these, and they are foaming at the mouth to try to get you to doubt your eternal security, and they are only too happy to TRY to convince you that you can lose you salvation.....you remember what i have told you in my 3 Legalism Threads, and you can discern these heretics and protect yourself and your family.

Now, its a good idea if you discern me.
You should try.
See, i have no fear of this, and welcome your examination.
Here is what i do......I give God and Christ full credit for saving me and keeping me saved.
I give them full credit for Salvation.
I would not dare pretend that i can save myself or keep myself saved by my works, or anything that i can ever do, such as keeping laws, confessing sin, or keeping commandments, or enduring to the end, or any of this phony baloney, self righteousness.
I know who the Savior is, and its not ME.
I would never try to talk you out of your salvation, or cause you to have doubts about your salvation being completed, "in Christ".
I would never have you living your Christian life, in fear, worried that you might go to hell if you don't do certain things and maintain a certain lifestyle.
See, God didnt save you because of what you would or would not do LATER, after you are SAVED....He only saved you and keeps you saved because of what Jesus the Christ did for you on a Cross that has Redeemed you, for eternity.
Thats IT.
Bottom LINE.

So, now, also discern my understanding of Salvation, as i explain it simply.

The issue is RIGHTEOUSNESS.
We dont have any, of ourselves, ours is "filthy rags" according to Paul and the book of Romans,.....and this condition that we are born into, is called...."LOST".
"Lost", means, in Christian Terms, that our unholiness has created a disconnect and a division between us and Holy GOD.
So, to solve this disconnect, and to build an eternal bridge between Himself and us, He offers a means, whereby we can have His very Righteous, for ourselves.
And this Righteousness, is "Christ's righteousness".
Without it, we are lost and bound for hell.
But with it, we are delivered from Eternal Judgment , = hell = Lake of Fire.
So, God wrapped Himself in Human flesh, was born of a Virgin, and Jesus as God and fully man, was manifested in the flesh to save us. 1 Timothy 3:16
"Save us", means, God as Christ lived a holy life AS A MAN, sinless, which resolved the issue of the Law, that was judging us as unrighteous and lost.
On the Cross, shedding His Blood, ...God as Jesus the Christ, bore our sin's and removed the law from its capacity to judge us in eternity.
Christ rejectors will face God as Judge, and the Born Again, meet God as their FATHER..."abba".
God then, (as we hear the Gospel and believe in Christ), takes our sin and lets Christ die for it, and He takes Christ's righteousness, and imparts it to us, gives it to us, so that we become Born again, new creatures, and have now the very Righteousness of Christ, as OUR Righteousness.
And from that moment, (born again) God never again imputs our sins to us....Romans 4:8, and we are "accepted in the beloved", we are family members, for eternity, and nothing can change this, because its all provided for us, and given to us, and kept for us for FREE.
Philippians 1:6


blessings,



DW

And I think it not unreasonable that Cain also called Able a legalist for offering a better sacrifice . And that same spirit will always pursue Able . Everything we do that is well done ...every good and perfect gift IS from above and our hope is Jesus Christ but brother take care ...OSAS may keep believers from heeding Jesus warning to the churches in revelation to repent . Just like in Jeremiah's day the false prophets caused the children of Israel to be in rebellion rather than heed God's word .
Many just want to go to heaven ...some wish to be like Jesus .
 
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Bruce Leiter

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Saint,

If you've been invested, over time, on any Christian Forum, then you have come to the realization, that about 30% of the people who use a Christian Forum are sincere, and sincerely interested in learning more, growing more, and want to use a Christian Forum, for these reasons. But then, you have the other 70% who live on these forums, with no desire to learn, but only a desire to fight, create chaos, and if possible, create confusion within someone else's belief system, regarding their Salvation.
And the worst of these offenders, are Legalists. And you need to protect yourself from their poisonous heretical bible twisting mania, as it can infect you, and truly harm your walk with the Lord , and more.

Lets get to it.

So,... Your New Testament explains that you are to "Discern", .. And this is related to life situations, personal desire, purpose in life, but it also means you are to do it with other people and certainly with other Christians.
The scripture that supports this is : 1 Corinthians 2:15.
Saint, being able to discern will keep you safe in life, and will keep you from being led into dark theology that many on a Christian forum would have you believe, to your hurt.
Now, how do you discern if a person is a Legalist? Well, here are the classic signs.....
First, this heretic will live and obsess on the Old Testament, and also on only 3 books in the new Testament.

1. Hebrews Chapters 4...6....10.
2. James
3. Matthew

Next, this heretic will try to convince you that you can Lose your Salvation. They will be found on a Christian forum, or anywhere, trying to do this to other believers.
They will start Threads, they will endlessly rant and post, always using the Old Testament, James, Hebrews, and Matthew.
Pay attention to this.
You'll begin to discern it.

Next, they will always talk about works, commandments, enduring to the end, dead faith, holding onto your faith, and never will they be able to deal with Pauline Theology, or believe that Salvation is completed.
They will never accept Grace without the condition of WORKS being added to it, to "keep you saved".
"Yes, i know that Jesus shed His blood to save us....BUT, here is the rest of the commandments, enduring to the end, holding unto your faith, confessing your sins.....that you must DO< to STAY SAVED">..

Discern this Saint, as you will be hearing all about it, very soon.

Now keep in mind that the Legalist, does not believe that God & Christ will KEEP THEM SAVED.....so, their entire Christianity is a bitter, joyless, self effort to do it for themselves, and this is why they are endlessly trying to convince you that you need to be doing it also.
They believe that you can lose your salvation, because they find it impossible to TRUST that God and Christ, will keep them Saved.
They read Philippians 1:6, that explains that God started their salvation IN THEM< and will complete it.....and they refuse to accept this, as they are convinced that they need to keep themselves saved, = "Self- Righteousness".
They read Hebrews 12:2, that says that Jesus started their Faith and will complete/perfect it, and they refuse to accept this, and instead will try to keep themselves saved by "holding unto their faith".

Understand, that Faith does not save you.. but rather God SAVES YOU thru your faith.
Faith is not the Savior.....The Savior is Christ on the Cross.
Faith does not save you, but rather God giving you His righteousness, and HAS, if you are born again, makes you acceptable to Him, is what is saving you, right this very second.

So, i mention that you are to discern any teacher, and the best way to discern them, is to find out what they believe about Salvation, and in fact, if they even understand it.
Consider that if a person does not understand God's Grace, (Salvation), then how can they understand anything else in a New Testament.
As obviously, if you dont understand Grace, The Atonement, Justification by Faith, then how can you understand anything else that matters, regarding the New Testament, and "sound doctrine"?
Our New Testament, tells us to "establish our Hearts, with Grace"...Hebrews 13:9
This means to nail down, what Paul has taught us as "sound doctrine" regarding "Justification by Faith", so that you are not led astray by heretics.

Rest assured that if you are ever going to grow in Grace, and receive more revelation and New Testament understanding, then you have to study, not read, but study, Paul's epistles.
And not just a little bit....
As this Apostle, is the only one that Jesus chose to personally give to you what you know that is "Church Doctrine"
Everything that a real student of the word needs to know, that matters, that is the "main thing", "sound doctrine" "church doctrine" ...= you will find and discover by studying the words of Paul.
Paul is the only apostle who told you to "be a follower of ME, as I follow Christ"... 1 Corinthians 11:1
IN 2nd Peter, Peter says that Paul's letters are "scripture", and equal to the Torah. (OT).
Imagine an apostle saying that another apostles letters are equal to SCRIPTURE, the word of GOD. But that is he wrote, as that is a fact.
This is why most of our NT< is composed by Paul.
So, this is one more way for you to discern a Christian's soundness, and accuracy, and truthfulness, regarding what they believe. Notice if they are of the understanding that Paul's Theology, and His Epistles matter most to the believer, regarding understanding what God wants you to know, ...."sound doctrine"..."church doctrine".
Legalists, have a spiritual blindness toward's Paul. They will twist one or 2 verses of his verses to try to teach you that you can lose it....but, they have no grounding in his Theology, are not familiar with his letters, and will never be, as Paul is the one that explains in Galatians 1:8 that they and their theology, are "cursed of God". And Saint, when you run into one of these, and they are foaming at the mouth to try to get you to doubt your eternal security, and they are only too happy to TRY to convince you that you can lose you salvation.....you remember what i have told you in my 3 Legalism Threads, and you can discern these heretics and protect yourself and your family.

Now, its a good idea if you discern me.
You should try.
See, i have no fear of this, and welcome your examination.
Here is what i do......I give God and Christ full credit for saving me and keeping me saved.
I give them full credit for Salvation.
I would not dare pretend that i can save myself or keep myself saved by my works, or anything that i can ever do, such as keeping laws, confessing sin, or keeping commandments, or enduring to the end, or any of this phony baloney, self righteousness.
I know who the Savior is, and its not ME.
I would never try to talk you out of your salvation, or cause you to have doubts about your salvation being completed, "in Christ".
I would never have you living your Christian life, in fear, worried that you might go to hell if you don't do certain things and maintain a certain lifestyle.
See, God didnt save you because of what you would or would not do LATER, after you are SAVED....He only saved you and keeps you saved because of what Jesus the Christ did for you on a Cross that has Redeemed you, for eternity.
Thats IT.
Bottom LINE.

So, now, also discern my understanding of Salvation, as i explain it simply.

The issue is RIGHTEOUSNESS.
We dont have any, of ourselves, ours is "filthy rags" according to Paul and the book of Romans,.....and this condition that we are born into, is called...."LOST".
"Lost", means, in Christian Terms, that our unholiness has created a disconnect and a division between us and Holy GOD.
So, to solve this disconnect, and to build an eternal bridge between Himself and us, He offers a means, whereby we can have His very Righteous, for ourselves.
And this Righteousness, is "Christ's righteousness".
Without it, we are lost and bound for hell.
But with it, we are delivered from Eternal Judgment , = hell = Lake of Fire.
So, God wrapped Himself in Human flesh, was born of a Virgin, and Jesus as God and fully man, was manifested in the flesh to save us. 1 Timothy 3:16
"Save us", means, God as Christ lived a holy life AS A MAN, sinless, which resolved the issue of the Law, that was judging us as unrighteous and lost.
On the Cross, shedding His Blood, ...God as Jesus the Christ, bore our sin's and removed the law from its capacity to judge us in eternity.
Christ rejectors will face God as Judge, and the Born Again, meet God as their FATHER..."abba".
God then, (as we hear the Gospel and believe in Christ), takes our sin and lets Christ die for it, and He takes Christ's righteousness, and imparts it to us, gives it to us, so that we become Born again, new creatures, and have now the very Righteousness of Christ, as OUR Righteousness.
And from that moment, (born again) God never again imputs our sins to us....Romans 4:8, and we are "accepted in the beloved", we are family members, for eternity, and nothing can change this, because its all provided for us, and given to us, and kept for us for FREE.
Philippians 1:6


blessings,



DW
So why do you invest yourself in this forum? Read Ephesians 1-3 for God's gospel's "already" and chapters 4-6 for his "not-yet," the places we need to improve. Do the same with Colossians 1 and 2 as well as 3 and 4; Romans 1-11 ('already") and 12-16 ("not-yet"); and Hebrews 1-11 and 12 to the end.
 
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klutedavid

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Yup, it goes back to love :)

The bottomline is action as 1 John 3:18 says.
But you are not saved according to the level of love that you exert towards others. Love is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

A person is saved by grace first and last.

The confusion arises because people incorrectly understand that our salvation is a free gift and cannot be acquired on the basis of any personal merit.

It is not faith plus works, salvation is always by grace through faith. The works are necessary but do not provide any leverage for the goal of salvation.

Christ reconciled us and we had no part to play in that reconciliation.
 
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timewerx

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But you are not saved according to the level of love that you exert towards others. Love is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

A person is saved by grace first and last.

The confusion arises because people incorrectly understand that our salvation is a free gift and cannot be acquired on the basis of any personal merit.

It is not faith plus works, salvation is always by grace through faith. The works are necessary but do not provide any leverage for the goal of salvation.

Christ reconciled us and we had no part to play in that reconciliation.

The works are simply evidence of finding real faith, true salvation, God's grace, and true belief.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
 
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klutedavid

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The works are simply evidence of finding real faith, true salvation, God's grace, and true belief.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Correct.

The works are the external result of the inner reconciliation granted in Christ.

Christ first and Christ last.
 
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