For those wishing to understand the 2 Holy Spirit baptisms

Saint Steven said:

That doesn't answer the question.
What happened at the house of Cornelius?
No apostle's hands.

What about the 3000 and the 5000? (Acts 2 + 4)
Did the Apostles lay hands on all those?

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Saint Steven said:

You are claiming that all 70 were apostles? How do you know that Ananias was part of that Jerusalem group? He was in Damascus.

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Saint Steven said:

Is these quoted below what you consider to be heretical sects?
And frankly, "heretical" only means not approved by the "Church".
Which is the real culprit here.

A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says:
"Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished
for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held
rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet
through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly
embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John.
He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear
many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit
speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden
things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states:
"Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers
to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days,
he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any
clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that
they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of
His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman,
another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that
were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle
calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and
considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid
hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands.
It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

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Dave L said:

The gift of tongues only happens in Acts at the two outpourings. And with the laying on of an apostle's hands. Only a few ever spoke in tongues.

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Dave L said:

It's all hearsay and speaks for relatively few sects of questionable orthodoxy. If tongues were for today, they would have continued throughout Christendom until present.

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Saint Steven said:

That's not correct. What about the Corinthian church? The Apostle had to rein them in.
Besides, where's the news when something becomes common?
Did the new testament writers need to report every instance of tongue-speaking?
It seems like they reported when it didn't happen. Like Samaria. If the Samaritans had spoken in tongues when they were baptized, there would have been no need to report the laying on of hands by the Apostles. That whole situation may have not been in the book of Acts. Where's the news? Nothing to report. Something needs to be pretty important to get an animal hide, mix up some ink, cut a quill and write about it.

1 Corinthians 14:23
So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

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Dave L said:

Ananias saw and knew Jesus personally and Jesus sent him to Paul = an apostle.

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Dave L said:

You are imagining something that is not there. The Holy Spirit used Paul to distribute the gifts according to Romans.

“For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;” (Romans 1:11)

“And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” (Acts 8:18)

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Saint Steven said:

I think tongues did continue throughout history. It just doesn't accommodate your "orthodoxy". Even Jesus didn't meet with the approval of orthodoxy. Should you disown him for that "crime"?

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Saint Steven said:

You are imagining something that is not there. The Holy Spirit distributes the gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:4
There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.

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Saint Steven said:

That's not correct. What about the Corinthian church? The Apostle had to rein them in.
Besides, where's the news when something becomes common?
Did the new testament writers need to report every instance of tongue-speaking?
It seems like they reported when it didn't happen. Like Samaria. If the Samaritans had spoken in tongues when they were baptized, there would have been no need to report the laying on of hands by the Apostles. That whole situation may have not been in the book of Acts. Where's the news? Nothing to report. Something needs to be pretty important to get an animal hide, mix up some ink, cut a quill and write about it.

1 Corinthians 14:23
So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

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Dave L said:

They obviously did not. And Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church where we see no evidence of the Charismata.

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Dave L said:

The Holy Spirit distributed them in Acts as an example of how he distributes them. No mention of your way.

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Dave L said:

Ananias saw and knew Jesus personally and Jesus sent him to Paul = an apostle.

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BCsenior said:

Those who promote false teaching
usually have Satan as their teacher!
Who needs Scripture when you have Satan? lol

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Saint Steven said:

How do we know that Ananias knew Jesus personally, except as Savior?

We know the Lord spoke to him to send him to Saul, but a personal face-to-face relationship is nowhere indicated to my knowledge. He had not seen Jesus that I know of. Correct me if I am wrong.

You seem to have backed off on the claim of him being one of the Jerusalem 70. Maybe you are wrong on this too. Don't get carried away by your own doctrine.

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Saint Steven said:

The passage I quoted begins with this. So it is obviously meant to be informative.

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed.

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Saint Steven said:

Jesus said no such thing about the gifts. In fact he promised them.

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

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BABerean2 said:

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
1Co 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

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