Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Bernie might make a good president, if he even survives to 2020. The elephant in the room, or should I say the donkey, is that he is an old man. Very old in fact. I don't know about the minds and hearts of people who want him to tackle the extremely stressful job of being president.

So your argument against Bernie is that we should discriminate against him because of his age. That's like discriminating against him because he's Jewish.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Eliminate employer & employee insurance premiums (which can run to thousands of dollars per month) and replacing these premium payments with a simple 6.2% payroll tax paid by employers and a 2.2% payroll tax paid by employees. Adding new progressive income tax brackets for incomes above $250,000 per year, with a maximum of 52% on income above $10 million (affecting fewer than 15,000 households). This plan is projected to reduce national healthcare costs by about $2.4 trillion per year (thus allowing plenty of wiggle room for unexpected costs). Employers and employees currently pay an average combined total of $14,500 per year for health insurance. These costs would be reduced to an average of $3600 per year (combined costs).

The 2.4 trillion in savings is disputed. Understand I would favor medicare for all myself. But why payroll taxes? A tax on spending would provide for less loopholes by individuals and businesses alike. And for some of the super wealthy they may have no current income, but have vast holdings. They still spend however, and this would capture that.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Oh it can most certainly done by the tax plan Bernie is proposing. In fact, we'll find that it will run a surplus and help to offset government deficits.

Do you have something that shows the projections? Recall, even if we eliminated the entire military budget (which I don't think anyone proposes), we would still have a 150 billion dollar budget deficit BEFORE adding medicare for all.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

tall73 said:
The 2.4 trillion in savings is disputed. Understand I would favor medicare for all myself. But why payroll taxes? A tax on spending would provide for less loopholes by individuals and businesses alike. And for some of the super wealthy they may have no current income, but have vast holdings. They still spend however, and this would capture that.

I'm very confident that the 2.4 trillion is very realistic and even conservative. I'm sure over time it will be even more savings than that. As for the best way to tax for it I'd agree there may be better ways to do so but what Bernie is proposing would work and would save people tons of money over the private insurance they have now.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
So your argument against Bernie is that we should discriminate against him because of his age. That's like discriminating against him because he's Jewish.

How you get that out of my encouraging kindness to the aged is beyond me.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
How you get that out of my encouraging kindness to the aged is beyond me.

Calling someone "too old" to do what he wants to do is kind? How do you figure?

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Calling someone "too old" to do what he wants to do is kind? How do you figure?

He obviously can run and lead, and I never said otherwise. That having been said - is it the kindest thing to do to put him in office when he is so very aged?

Desk trauma · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Calling someone "too old" to do what he wants to do is kind?

When what they want to do will likely lead to their literal demise,.

Shiloh Raven · Apr 19, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Bernie might make a good president, if he even survives to 2020. The elephant in the room, or should I say the donkey, is that he is an old man. Very old in fact. I don't know about the minds and hearts of people who want him to tackle the extremely stressful job of being president.

ArmenianJohn said:
So your argument against Bernie is that we should discriminate against him because of his age. That's like discriminating against him because he's Jewish.

I'm a liberal and I happen to agree with Ttalkkugjil. I think Bernie is much too old. I'm not sure that he would survive the four years of a presidency. And to be fair on the matter, I think Trump is too old as well. I would much rather see younger candidates (mid-forties or a bit older) campaign. I think the perpetual trend of older white men should come to an end and younger people should step in. I don't say that to be offensive and discriminatory. I think it's just a reality in this progressive day and age. The fact is, older men (white or otherwise) don't appropriately represent younger Americans and the current diversity in this country. I think American politics needs to evolve and reflect these points.

Shiloh Raven · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Calling someone "too old" to do what he wants to do is kind? How do you figure?

I think it's similar to telling an older senior citizen that they are too old to drive. There comes a time when older people like him aren't capable to carry on like they once did when they were younger.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
This plan is projected to reduce national healthcare costs by about $2.4 trillion per year

ArmenianJohn said:
I'm very confident that the 2.4 trillion is very realistic and even conservative.

This notion of saving 2.4 trillion per year doesn't match any figure I can find. The total expenditure on healthcare in the US in 2017 was 3.5 trillion.

Historical - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

I don't see how this would save over half of the total expenditure.

Even the figure touted by both Bernie and AOC indicated a savings of 2 trillion over a DECADE, not every year:

The Cost of 'Medicare-for-All' - FactCheck.org

But when contacted, the author of the paper they are referencing said that the 2 trillion savings over a decade are likely not realistic.

I tend to think the advantage would not be in considerable savings (some moderate savings would be realistic I think in negotiation on a larger scale), but in flexibility. You don't lose your coverage if you lose your job. Since a chronic health condition can sometimes jeopardize one's ability to work, that is important. It also means that more people can pursue self-employment without being tied to employer provided care.And it would provide for those who do not have healthcare currently. Those are significant benefits even if cost savings are modest.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
I think it's similar to telling an older senior citizen that they are too old to drive. There comes a time when older people like him aren't capable to carry on like they once did when they were younger.

That decision can be made on a per person basis. Do you have evidence Sanders is senile or incapable at the moment?

Shiloh Raven · Apr 19, 2019

tall73 said:
That decision can be made on a per person basis. Do you have evidence Sanders is senile or incapable at the moment?

Not at this time, of course. However, that doesn't change my opinion in thinking that he's too old to be the President. As I said, I would like to see younger candidates take the lead and campaign.

Sparagmos · Apr 19, 2019

Desk trauma said:
and do not have to contend with the issues I posted.

Maybe you should review the math. How will spending less on healthcare bankrupt the u.s.? We aren’t talking about military spending, we’re talking about healthcare spending. Countries with single payer healthcare spend LESS on healthcare per capita than we do.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

Shiloh Raven said:
Not at this time, of course. However, that doesn't change my opinion in thinking that he's too old to be the President. As I said, I would like to see younger candidates take the lead and campaign.

If you have no evidence of his incapacity, current or impending in the near future, then the argument about seniors driving does not seem valid.

Wouldn't you be best off supporting whoever eventually has the best chance of enacting the policies you want?

We will have to see who galvanizes support in the long run, but to state up front you prefer non-white or younger without regard to who is actually polling best among the younger folks you mention seems short sighted. Bernie did quite well with the young folks last time. He has been at the forefront of bringing the issues many younger voters want to the national discourse.

Democratic 2020 Presidential Candidates Ranked – Rolling Stone

And currently he has over 500,000 donors compared to "nearly" 140,000 from the next highest contender Kamala. He appears to get lower amounts from individual donors as well, showing more grass roots support. He raised 18 million from the 500,000 donors whereas Kamala raised 12 million from 140,000 donors. So Bernie has an average donation of a little under $36, while Kamala has an average donation of more than 85 dollars.

It is still early and I don't think early donations will really tell us too much yet about eventual trends. But I would consider the best person for the job to enact the policies you speak of, regardless what color or gender that person turns out to be.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
What a great platform for Bernie and what a great message he delivered on several levels! Obviously there was the message of what his platform itself is, which is fantastic. But he also delivered other important messages.

For one, he delivered the message that Fox News and the people who watch it are not "deplorables" to be shunned but rather they are largely working people who can benefit from his platform and deserve to be spoken to like fellow human beings. He sent the message that they are not just "idiots" or any other derisive label to be dismissed as just such but that rather they are people also who should be spoken to and reasoned with. And for this he was actually criticized and hated by many on the Democratic/liberal side of the spectrum.

Another important message was not the platform itself but the fact that the platform resonates and is desired by a large number of people, a majority of people. Fox unwittingly helped him in this regard by setting him up for what they thought would be several "gotcha!" moments which actually backfired in their face! Nearly everything Bernie spoke about was met with huge cheering and applause from the vast majority of the crowd present. The few times it wasn't, it was typically because the hosts would talk over the cheering to try to subdue it.

The best moment was when one of the hosts asked the crowd who had private insurance and almost every hand went up, then he asked how many of them would be willing to give that up for Bernie's Medicare for all and the same hands went up! Fantastic and very telling endorsement of Bernie's plan and of the fact that he is reaching the majority of the people and resonating with them!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...m4QIINMpfNDXrO_0wDJ9Q8&utm_term=.ffc95a81b870

Future President Sanders will be a great leader for our nation and will benefit even those who are against him. I'm looking forward to watching him win the White House and taking the government back from the big-money special interests and giving it back to the people! With him in the White House and more like AOC and Ro Khanna taking over the Democratic Party and Congress we will surely see our lives improve greatly in the US... There's hope yet for the next generations!

BERNIE 2020

This seems to be the Democratic platform.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 19, 2019

tall73 said:
Wouldn't you be best off supporting whoever eventually has the best chance of enacting the policies you want?

How able will someone who's, you know, dead have of enacting the policies that you want? Who's more likely to pass away from all the stress that comes from being President - someone middle-aged or a very old man? Consider the risk factors.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
How able will someone who's, you know, dead have of enacting the policies that you want? Who's more likely to pass away from all the stress that comes from being President - someone middle-aged or a very old man? Consider the risk factors.

If you think he will die then your choice is clear. The other poster expressed a desire for a non-white male to be representative, and when asked did not seem to think Bernie would be incapacitated.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 19, 2019

tall73 said:
If you think he will die then your choice is clear. The other poster expressed a desire for a non-white male to be representative, and when asked did not seem to think Bernie would be incapacitated.

My choice is to encourage that kindness be shown to Bernie. Keep him away from the stress of being President. That's about all I can do.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

No Username Found said:
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This seems to be the Democratic platform.

To a degree yes. Only, it is more like, if you vote for me you will have less chance of a nightmare removing your life savings and putting you out on the streets.

Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

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