Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

Sparagmos · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
What a great platform for Bernie and what a great message he delivered on several levels! Obviously there was the message of what his platform itself is, which is fantastic. But he also delivered other important messages.

For one, he delivered the message that Fox News and the people who watch it are not "deplorables" to be shunned but rather they are largely working people who can benefit from his platform and deserve to be spoken to like fellow human beings. He sent the message that they are not just "idiots" or any other derisive label to be dismissed as just such but that rather they are people also who should be spoken to and reasoned with. And for this he was actually criticized and hated by many on the Democratic/liberal side of the spectrum.

Another important message was not the platform itself but the fact that the platform resonates and is desired by a large number of people, a majority of people. Fox unwittingly helped him in this regard by setting him up for what they thought would be several "gotcha!" moments which actually backfired in their face! Nearly everything Bernie spoke about was met with huge cheering and applause from the vast majority of the crowd present. The few times it wasn't, it was typically because the hosts would talk over the cheering to try to subdue it.

The best moment was when one of the hosts asked the crowd who had private insurance and almost every hand went up, then he asked how many of them would be willing to give that up for Bernie's Medicare for all and the same hands went up! Fantastic and very telling endorsement of Bernie's plan and of the fact that he is reaching the majority of the people and resonating with them!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...m4QIINMpfNDXrO_0wDJ9Q8&utm_term=.ffc95a81b870

Future President Sanders will be a great leader for our nation and will benefit even those who are against him. I'm looking forward to watching him win the White House and taking the government back from the big-money special interests and giving it back to the people! With him in the White House and more like AOC and Ro Khanna taking over the Democratic Party and Congress we will surely see our lives improve greatly in the US... There's hope yet for the next generations!

BERNIE 2020

I watched it last night and agree! What a great moment in American politics. Bernie has incredible political instinct and his record shows he’s the real deal. I’ll bet Trump is furious fox let Bernie coopt their platform.

thecolorsblend · Apr 19, 2019

It's weird how the left is viewing Bernie's Fox News town hall. I think they're so accustomed to living in their own bubble that the idea of Fox having someone like Bernie on precisely because he comes from a different viewpoint than many of Fox's typical viewers hasn't crossed their mind.

The other thing is they don't seem to realize that Bernie was questioned by the Fox hosts much as they would anybody else. They didn't argue with him; they pushed him on his answers because that's what journalists are supposed to do.

For everything else I could say about Fox News viewers (and there's a lot) (much of which isn't very good), they seem to generally have understood that Bernie was questioned precisely so he could elaborate on his ideas.

The left seems to think Bernie owned the hosts.

It really says a lot about the right that they're generally ambivalent about the town hall while the left thinks it was some kind of epic victory.

Disclaimer: In the unlikely event that Bernie somehow wins the election, I can think of a few things he'd do well with. I'm less opposed to him than some of the Democrat Party candidates.

TuxAme · Apr 19, 2019

Hmm. Unfortunately, I refuse to listen to anything he has to say unless he jumps off the abortion wagon.

thecolorsblend · Apr 19, 2019

TuxAme said:
Hmm. Unfortunately, I refuse to listen to anything he has to say unless he jumps off the abortion wagon.

Quite understandable. And I wasn't saying I'd vote for the guy. Because I won't.

But it's only fair to acknowledge that elements of his platform would be positive for the country.

And for what it's worth, I don't think the hardcore leftists have stopped to consider the implications of some parts of his platform. Otherwise, their support for him might be a bit more tepid.

TuxAme · Apr 19, 2019

thecolorsblend said:
Quite understandable. And I wasn't saying I'd vote for the guy. Because I won't.

But it's only fair to acknowledge that elements of his platform would be positive for the country.

And for what it's worth, I don't think the hardcore leftists have stopped to consider the implications of some parts of his platform. Otherwise, their support for him might be a bit more tepid.

I wasn't responding to your post in particular: I was still typing it when you posted.

Sparagmos · Apr 19, 2019

hislegacy said:
He was not being insulting. Reality is that he is not welcome in main stream Democrats and his socialism preaching is not embraced by the right.

These are two very real obstacles he needs to overcome.

The DNC harpooned him in 2016, what makes you think they will not do it again.

Didn’t Bernie recently beat Trump in a Fox News poll?

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

Nithavela said:
Sometimes when a lot of people disagree with you, it's because you're wrong.

Exactly!

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

Sparagmos said:
Didn’t Bernie recently beat Trump in a Fox News poll?

I saw a screen shot of it but can't confirm it was real - showed Bernie beating him 47% to 40%

hislegacy · Apr 19, 2019

Sparagmos said:
Didn’t Bernie recently beat Trump in a Fox News poll?

Not that I am aware of -

Didn't Hillary beat Trump in the polls right up until she lost?

Sparagmos · Apr 19, 2019

hislegacy said:
Completely disagree. Bernie would bankrupt us.

Why aren’t all the countries with single payer healthcare bankrupt then?

Desk trauma · Apr 19, 2019

Sparagmos said:
Why aren’t all the countries with single payer healthcare bankrupt then?

Because they do not have the 8,000 pound gorilla of the US military industrial complex to fund compounded with the cargo cult of cutting taxes no matter what to contend with.

Sparagmos · Apr 19, 2019

hislegacy said:
Not that I am aware of -

Didn't Hillary beat Trump in the polls right up until she lost?

I found it, you have to scroll way down:
Fox News Poll 3/24/2019

It’s question # 30, Bernie beat Trump 44% to 41%

As for Hillary, since polls don’t measure electoral college voltes, the polls were correct. Not that it’s relevant...

Sparagmos · Apr 19, 2019

Desk trauma said:
Because they do not have the 8,000 pound gorilla of the US military industrial complex to fund compounded with the cargo cult of cutting taxes no matter what to contend with.

But they spend less on healthcare than the U.S. Our healthcare system is the most expensive (as far as I know.)

Desk trauma · Apr 19, 2019

Sparagmos said:
But they spend less on healthcare than the U.S. Our healthcare system is the most expensive (as far as I know.)

and do not have to contend with the issues I posted.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
Where are you coming up with that? We can slash the defense budget to cover most of his programs easily.

Not sure about that.

The 2019 budget deficit is projected at 900 billion by the CBO, before you even figure in an additional program of medicare for all.:

The Budget and Economic Outlook: 2019 to 2029 | Congressional Budget Office

The current budget Trump is pushing for the military is 750 Billion. Even if you cut the budget to zero it would not pay for the current deficit, even before adding in medicare for all.

China says U.S. hyping threat to justify own rising defense spending - Reuters

I would be in favor of cutting the military (China, the next largest spender is spending less than half of what we are). But it would not be enough to pay for the programs.

I also think that taxing the ultra rich alone will not do it. First of all the rich always find loopholes. Corporations find loopholes as well. Moreover, they could re-locate, and there is a limit to how much even the ultra-rich could pay.

Yang's proposal of a value added tax has more possibility of working to raise the amounts needed. The argument then would be that the increased taxes would be offset by savings on personal and business expenditures on healthcare. However, a value added tax would also mean that the poorest, who often either do not pay federal tax, or may even benefit from the income tax credit would then wind up paying money in taxes as it is a sales tax. And for many of them they do not pay for health care, either because they don't have it, or because they are covered by State programs. So they would not have savings in healthcare expenditures to offset this new tax expense.

There is also the possibility that it would help businesses to not have to pay for healthcare and could possibly raise wages, which could offset some of that pain from new taxes. And there is the possibility that more people could be free to either work a job they prefer, or go into more self-employed options since they are not tied to corporate healthcare. This could, but might not, result in more innovation and growth in the economy.

Estimates for medicare for all vary, from 1.4 to 2 Trillion a year from what I am seeing. That is around the number for total discretionary spending in the budget now (and that is while going 900 billion in debt).

Discretionary spending in the US has doubled since the 1960s

Taxes would have to go up substantially. I think a VAT is about the only option that would pay for it, and it would take everyone pitching in.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

The conservative (both Republican and Democrat) hackneyed old line is that even though every other first-world country can have low cost single-payer health care, the US can't because we're simply not as good as them. That's what they believe and they couch it in different ways with different (wrong) reasons.

Bernie and those like him recognize that we absolutely can do the same thing and benefit greatly from it. We understand that a virtually unregulated private health insurance industry allows for companies to legally and unabashedly make profits commensurate with their ability to make people suffer and die.

Fortunately, a majority of Americans see it Bernie's way and aren't buying the tired old excuses (lies) anymore. Universal Health Care in one form or another is coming, it's just a matter of when and how, but it's coming sometime soon. I'm confident that Bernie will be the catalyst for it.

tall73 · Apr 19, 2019

ArmenianJohn said:
The conservative (both Republican and Democrat) hackneyed old line is that even though every other first-world country can have low cost single-payer health care, the US can't because we're simply not as good as them. That's what they believe and they couch it in different ways with different (wrong) reasons.

I think we could. But we can't do it by the tax plan Bernie is proposing. The countries that do it tax all their citizens at higher rates, not just the wealthy.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

tall73 said:
Not sure about that.

The 2019 budget deficit is projected at 900 billion by the CBO, before you even figure in an additional program of medicare for all.:

The Budget and Economic Outlook: 2019 to 2029 | Congressional Budget Office

The current budget Trump is pushing for the military is 750 Billion. Even if you cut the budget to zero it would not pay for the current deficit, even before adding in medicare for all.

China says U.S. hyping threat to justify own rising defense spending - Reuters

I would be in favor of cutting the military (China, the next largest spender is spending less than half of what we are). But it would not be enough to pay for the programs.

I also think that taxing the ultra rich alone will not do it. First of all the rich always find loopholes. Corporations find loopholes as well. Moreover, they could re-locate, and there is a limit to how much even the ultra-rich could pay.

Yang's proposal of a value added tax has more possibility of working to raise the amounts needed. The argument then would be that the increased taxes would be offset by savings on personal and business expenditures on healthcare. However, a value added tax would also mean that the poorest, who often either do not pay federal tax, or may even benefit from the income tax credit would then wind up paying money in taxes as it is a sales tax. And for many of them they do not pay for health care, either because they don't have it, or because they are covered by State programs. So they would not have savings in healthcare expenditures to offset this new tax expense.

There is also the possibility that it would help businesses to not have to pay for healthcare and could possibly raise wages, which could offset some of that pain from new taxes. And there is the possibility that more people could be free to either work a job they prefer, or go into more self-employed options since they are not tied to corporate healthcare. This could, but might not, result in more innovation and growth in the economy.

Estimates for medicare for all vary, from 1.4 to 2 Trillion a year from what I am seeing. That is around the number for total discretionary spending in the budget now (and that is while going 900 billion in debt).

Discretionary spending in the US has doubled since the 1960s

Taxes would have to go up substantially. I think a VAT is about the only option that would pay for it, and it would take everyone pitching in.

Eliminate employer & employee insurance premiums (which can run to thousands of dollars per month) and replacing these premium payments with a simple 6.2% payroll tax paid by employers and a 2.2% payroll tax paid by employees. Adding new progressive income tax brackets for incomes above $250,000 per year, with a maximum of 52% on income above $10 million (affecting fewer than 15,000 households). This plan is projected to reduce national healthcare costs by about $2.4 trillion per year (thus allowing plenty of wiggle room for unexpected costs). Employers and employees currently pay an average combined total of $14,500 per year for health insurance. These costs would be reduced to an average of $3600 per year (combined costs).

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 19, 2019

Bernie might make a good president, if he even survives to 2020. The elephant in the room, or should I say the donkey, is that he is an old man. Very old in fact. I don't know about the minds and hearts of people who want him to tackle the extremely stressful job of being president.

ArmenianJohn · Apr 19, 2019

tall73 said:
I think we could. But we can't do it by the tax plan Bernie is proposing. The countries that do it tax all their citizens at higher rates, not just the wealthy.

Oh it can most certainly done by the tax plan Bernie is proposing. In fact, we'll find that it will run a surplus and help to offset government deficits.

Future President Bernie Sanders Slayed It on Fox Town Hall

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