LDS The Gospel

He is the way

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WE HAVE JESUS!

Hebrews 7
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

21(For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec)22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
The Bible is available to everyone but many things were left out including the book of the covenant.
 
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He is the way

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I know that in saying this to you, I am "preaching to the choir", and as an ex LDS, you will know suredly that they will say they have Jesus too, but it is a different Jesus to the Divine Son of God in the Bible.

I have been in PM conversation with someone who is adamant that her total faith is in Jesus Christ, and I tried to get her to say whether it is the Jesus of the New Testament or Joseph Smith's "Jesus". She hasn't said which one (yet).

In my reading I saw a statement that said that the most anti-Mormon literature is their own! I know that it is nothing new to you, but I have a lot of enjoyment reading "The God Makers" because, regardless of her total criticism of Ed Decker, all he is doing is showing what Mormonism is by their own literature. Their own literature shoots themselves in the foot every time!
There is only one Jesus Christ. Why do you believe there are two? The Jesus Christ of the Bible is also the Jesus Christ of the Book of Mormon.
 
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Ironhold

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Most of what I have stated is from the literature and doctrines of the church itself. And after using Google, there are hundreds of websites giving information about the church and what it does, its doctrines both public and secret.

So... no research at all in the church's defense?

I'm being serious. Did you take any time to examine the viewpoints opposing your own?
 
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DeepWater

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(New Testament | James 2:14 - 20)

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
?

Neither works nor faith can save you, and that is because nothing that you can do, can save you. OR< keep you saved.

Salvation: is what God does for you, and its a free gift.
This is why the bumper sticker says....."Jesus Saves".

People who are either not saved, or can't understand the Cross, are always writing that "faith without works is dead".
 
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anna ~ grace

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The Bible is totally related to The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. I quote the Bible often. I have also said very often that we are not saved by works and neither are we saved without them. Faith without works is dead.
My friend, Muslims say similar things about their quoting of Sacred Scripture. Finding perceived connections does not mean that there is an actual spiritual / historical connection, though. Any more than Muhammad was truly a prophet, or than the Quran is truly from God.
 
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devin553344

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The Book of Mormon teaches how to know good from evil:
(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:12 - 18)

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

I read thru Moroni 7:12-18 which appears to state incorrect doctrine. The devil is not the author of all evil. He is a fallen angel and once was honored. And with that logic, we cannot blame the devil for all evil we do which is what Moroni 7:12-18 is suggesting.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

Therefore the book of Moroni appears to have been created by someone that doesn't really know correct doctrine.
 
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No he did not read the Torah, he read the book of the covenant. Joseph Smith did not copy anything from the Bible. He had no written material with him when he dictated the Book of Mormon to the scribes. The gospel was and has been the same since Adam was on the earth. The Book of Mormon teaches how to know good from evil:
(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:12 - 18)

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
So, if the scribes dictated the Book of Mormon to JS, and the literal text was over 1000 years old, how come it is in 17th Century Elizabethan English, when 1000 years before that language was unknown?

independent researchers have clearly identified passages in the Book of Mormon that are identical to the same passages in the KJV version of the Bible. How can that be? When the gold tablets were inscribed, Matthew wasn't even alive, so how can identical quotes from his writing exist then other than that JS copied them from his own KJV Bible?

And how come the Book of Mormon describes Jesus visiting the Nephites and preaching to them, when the golden tablets were inscribe at least 1000 years before, and Jesus was resurrected in 30AD? Also, that Peter, James and John met up with people who lived 1000 years before they were born?

Doesn't make sense to me.
 
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So... no research at all in the church's defense?

I'm being serious. Did you take any time to examine the viewpoints opposing your own?
If the research is unbiased and shows the doctrines and beliefs of any religious organisation from its own doctrinal and historical literature, how can the viewpoint be opposing to it? If the researcher gets an accurate understanding of Mormanism and its doctrines and teachings, then why does the church need to defend itself against its own teaching and doctrine?

Is the actual literature of the Mormon church anti-Mormon that the church needs to defend itself against it?

If Mormon doctrine says that those who don't believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and that the Book of Mormon is absolutely true is of the antiChrist - which is clearly stated in Mormon doctrine as I have already cited, then why does the church have to defend itself against that doctrine if the church believes it?
 
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So... no research at all in the church's defense?

I'm being serious. Did you take any time to examine the viewpoints opposing your own?
As I said, does the church have to defend itself against the revealing of its own doctrines and teachings?
 
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devin553344

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So, if the scribes dictated the Book of Mormon to JS, and the literal text was over 1000 years old, how come it is in 17th Century Elizabethan English, when 1000 years before that language was unknown?

independent researchers have clearly identified passages in the Book of Mormon that are identical to the same passages in the KJV version of the Bible. How can that be? When the gold tablets were inscribed, Matthew wasn't even alive, so how can identical quotes from his writing exist then other than that JS copied them from his own KJV Bible?

And how come the Book of Mormon describes Jesus visiting the Nephites and preaching to them, when the golden tablets were inscribe at least 1000 years before, and Jesus was resurrected in 30AD? Also, that Peter, James and John met up with people who lived 1000 years before they were born?

Doesn't make sense to me.

Nor does it make sense that the plates were taken up by God so no one could see them. Not even the famed 10 commandments had such a reception: 2 Maccabees 2:1-6
 
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Nor does it make sense that the plates were taken up by God so no one could see them. Not even the famed 10 commandments had such a reception: 2 Maccabees 2:1-6
All they have to do is to find the tablets and dig them up to authenticate the Book of Mormon.
 
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Ironhold

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If the research is unbiased and shows the doctrines and beliefs of any religious organisation from its own doctrinal and historical literature, how can the viewpoint be opposing to it?

I believe we've already established that what you've been reading hasn't entirely been honest with you...

That, and it's basic due dilligence.

Is the actual literature of the Mormon church anti-Mormon that the church needs to defend itself against it?

Again, not everything has the weight of canon, including many of the works you're trying to say are official.

I've explained this.
 
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We've long since shown you the bias...
"We've"? I thought it was just you. Perhaps you are in a collective consciousness like the Borg in Startrek! :)

I have to put this story in. I can't help it.
"The Lone Ranger and Tonto found them suddenly surrounded by hostile Indians. The Lone Ranger cried out to Tonto: "We're surrounded!" Tonto replied, "Who's 'we', paleface?"
 
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Not good enough.
Okay. Prove to me that the Book of Mormon is true, without a doubt.

A map of the region described in the Book would be good.
Historical records that the Nephi actually existed.
Archaeological discoveries showing evidence of buildings, artifacts, coins, etc.
Battlefield evidence of the great battle depicted in the Book where the Nephi were wiped out and just one survivor escaped with the golden tablets.
Location of the cave on the hill where the tablets were supposed to have been buried.
The three witnesses who testified that they had seen the tablets, fully accredited by the church and its leaders as true eye witnesses to the event.

If you cannot provide this evidence you cannot prove that the Book of Mormon is genuine, and would not be able to refute my statement that it is a work of fiction and a fraud. I will be quite happy to recant my statement if you can prove otherwise.
 
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Ironhold

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Okay. Prove to me that the Book of Mormon is true, without a doubt.

A map of the region described in the Book would be good.
Historical records that the Nephi actually existed.
Archaeological discoveries showing evidence of buildings, artifacts, coins, etc.
Battlefield evidence of the great battle depicted in the Book where the Nephi were wiped out and just one survivor escaped with the golden tablets.
Location of the cave on the hill where the tablets were supposed to have been buried.
The three witnesses who testified that they had seen the tablets, fully accredited by the church and its leaders as true eye witnesses to the event.

If you cannot provide this evidence you cannot prove that the Book of Mormon is genuine, and would not be able to refute my statement that it is a work of fiction and a fraud. I will be quite happy to recant my statement if you can prove otherwise.

You made the initial claim.

The burden of proof is on you for that one specific statement from a few posts back.

Still kinda waiting here.
 
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You made the initial claim.

The burden of proof is on you for that one specific statement from a few posts back.

Still kinda waiting here.
No, no. All you have to do is to produce one single authentic government map of the region where the Nephi lived, showing the cities named in the Book of Mormon and I may concede that the Book may be true.
 
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