Smoke of them and Her ascending forever - Revelation

What City is shown smoking forever in Revelation


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TribulationSigns

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Yes, it is the smoke of the tormenting of them.
So are you saying that it is the literal city of Babylon? Why can't it be Jerusalem?
Why does Reve 11:8 say it is spirictually Sodom and Egypt where their Lord was crucified? Thanks

Rev 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great City which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Rev 17:5
And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


The great city is not physical. It is a body of New Testament congregation of Israel that is supposed to call by His name but has become SPIRITUALLY what is called called Sodom (abominations) and Egypt (bondage). God is talking about the fallen new testament congregation which is why she is a mystery to many.

Babylon is not a literal city or a place. Same applies to your version of Jerusalem, LittleLamb!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The great city is not physical. It is a body of New Testament congregation of Israel that is supposed to call by His name but has become SPIRITUALLY what is called called Sodom (abominations) and Egypt (bondage). God is talking about the fallen new testament congregation which is why she is a mystery to many.

Babylon is not a literal city or a place. Same applies to your version of Jerusalem, LittleLamb!
Yes, Revelation is OC/OT/Moses/Jews/Old Jerusalem versus NC/NT New Jerusalem Christians in Christ. That is about it in a nutshell. Glad you figured that out.
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes, it is the smoke of the tormenting of them.
So are you saying that it is the literal city of Babylon? Why can't it be Jerusalem?
Why does Reve 11:8 say it is spirictually Sodom and Egypt where their Lord was crucified? Thanks

I'm behind on everything, my computer finally bit the dust. I have a borrowed one until I can get me a new one and I miss all my features and stuff that I had saved. Lost it all----again. I keep looking for my downloaded bible versions and it's frustrating 'cause they're gone. Research has slowed way down! I will probably not be on here much for the next month, and then only for very short time spans.

OK, it seems you are trying to lump too many things together. The smoke in Rev 14:11 is a different time frame then Rev 11.

In scripture--the church is often portrayed as a virgin, however, it can also be an adulteress woman. A harlot is a church that has gone after other gods, or defiled the Lords teachings. Israel was often depicted as a harlot or adulteress when she was backslidden.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus said:
Yes, it is the smoke of the tormenting of them.
So are you saying that it is the literal city of Babylon? Why can't it be Jerusalem?
Why does Reve 11:8 say it is spirictually Sodom and Egypt where their Lord was crucified? Thanks
I'm behind on everything, my computer finally bit the dust. I have a borrowed one until I can get me a new one and I miss all my features and stuff that I had saved. Lost it all----again. I keep looking for my downloaded bible versions and it's frustrating 'cause they're gone. Research has slowed way down! I will probably not be on here much for the next month, and then only for very short time spans.

OK, it seems you are trying to lump too many things together. The smoke in Rev 14:11 is a different time frame then Rev 11.

In scripture--the church is often portrayed as a virgin, however, it can also be an adulteress woman. A harlot is a church that has gone after other gods, or defiled the Lords teachings.
Israel was often depicted as a harlot or adulteress when she was backslidden.
Yes. The book of Ezekiel generally has harsh words to say to the Jews.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Ezekiel 2
1And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak with thee. 2And the Spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet; and I heard him that spake unto me. 3And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to nations that are rebellious, which have rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me even unto this very day.

Ezekiel 16

1Again the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations; 3and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto Jerusalem:
35Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of Jehovah: 36Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness uncovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers; and because of all the idols of thy abominations, and for the blood of thy children, that thou didst give unto them; 37therefore behold, I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them against thee on every side, and will uncover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!
That's IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!

EZEKIEL AND REVELATION PARALLEL

1. THRONE VISION - (Rev 4./Ezek 1).
2. THE BOOK (Rev 5/Ezek 2-3)
3. THE PLAGUES (Rev 6:1-8/Ezek 5).
4. Slain Beneath the Altar (Rev. 6:9-11/Ezek. 6)
5. WRATH OF GOD (Rev 6:12-17/Ezek 7).
6. SEAL ON SAINTS' FOREHEADS (Rev 7/Ezek 9)
7. COALS FROM ALTAR (Rev. 8/Ezek 10).
8. NO MORE DELAY (Rev. 10:1-7/Ezek 12).
9. EATING THE BOOK (Rev 10:8-11/Ezek. 2)
11. MEASURING THE TEMPLE (Rev. 11:1-2/Ezek. 40-43)
11. JERUSALEM AND SODOM (Rev. 11:8/Ezek 16)
12. CUP OF WRATH (Rev. 14/Ezek. 23).
13. VINE OF THE LAND (Rev. 14:18-20/Ezek 15)
14. GREAT HARLOT (Rev 17-18/Ezek. 16, 23).
15. LAMENT OVER THE CITY (Rev. 18/Ezek 27)
16. SCAVENGER'S FEAST (Rev. 19/Ezek 39)
17. FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev 20:4-6/Ezek 37).
18 BATTLE WITH GOG AND MAGOG (Rev. 20:7-9/Ezek 38-39)
19. NEW JERUSALEM (Rev 21/Ezek 40-48)
20. RIVER OF LIFE (Rev 22/Ezek 47)
 
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mmksparbud

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Yes. The book of Ezekiel generally has harsh words to say to the Jews.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Ezekiel 2
1And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak with thee. 2And the Spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet; and I heard him that spake unto me. 3And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to nations that are rebellious, which have rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me even unto this very day.

Ezekiel 16

1Again the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, 2Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations; 3and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah unto Jerusalem:
35Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of Jehovah: 36Thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness uncovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers; and because of all the idols of thy abominations, and for the blood of thy children, that thou didst give unto them; 37therefore behold, I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them against thee on every side, and will uncover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!
That's IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!

EZEKIEL AND REVELATION PARALLEL

1. THRONE VISION - (Rev 4./Ezek 1).
2. THE BOOK (Rev 5/Ezek 2-3)
3. THE PLAGUES (Rev 6:1-8/Ezek 5).
4. Slain Beneath the Altar (Rev. 6:9-11/Ezek. 6)
5. WRATH OF GOD (Rev 6:12-17/Ezek 7).
6. SEAL ON SAINTS' FOREHEADS (Rev 7/Ezek 9)
7. COALS FROM ALTAR (Rev. 8/Ezek 10).
8. NO MORE DELAY (Rev. 10:1-7/Ezek 12).
9. EATING THE BOOK (Rev 10:8-11/Ezek. 2)
11. MEASURING THE TEMPLE (Rev. 11:1-2/Ezek. 40-43)
11. JERUSALEM AND SODOM (Rev. 11:8/Ezek 16)
12. CUP OF WRATH (Rev. 14/Ezek. 23).
13. VINE OF THE LAND (Rev. 14:18-20/Ezek 15)
14. GREAT HARLOT (Rev 17-18/Ezek. 16, 23).
15. LAMENT OVER THE CITY (Rev. 18/Ezek 27)
16. SCAVENGER'S FEAST (Rev. 19/Ezek 39)
17. FIRST RESURRECTION (Rev 20:4-6/Ezek 37).
18 BATTLE WITH GOG AND MAGOG (Rev. 20:7-9/Ezek 38-39)
19. NEW JERUSALEM (Rev 21/Ezek 40-48)
20. RIVER OF LIFE (Rev 22/Ezek 47)


Most of the NT is quoting the OT, Jesus did it on a routine basis---it is the only scripture they had after all and what all new converts to Christianity had. And yes--most of revelation is based on the OT--it is the Revelation of Jesus and Jesus was throughout the OT--"it is they that testify of me."
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The smoke of her torment rising.
Kewl vid.
The way Josephus described the destruction of 70ad Jerusalem, it is almost as if an atom bomb had fallen it is also.

Ezekiel 22:
17 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me; they [are] all bronze, tin, iron, and lead, in the midst of a furnace; they have become dross from silver.
19 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Because you have all become dross, therefore behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 '[As men] gather silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin into the midst of a furnace, to blow fire on it, to melt [it;] so I will gather [you] in My anger and in My fury, and I will leave [you there] and melt you.
21 'Yes, I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you shall be melted in its midst.
22 'As silver is melted in the midst of a furnace, so shall you be melted in its midst; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have poured out My fury on you.' "
========================
Josephus says that the Romans sieged Jerusalem on the feast the of Passover......could that be the event Ezekiel is talking about?

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21.
Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,) but justifying, also, his friendly direction, that those who fled from the place should use the utmost possible expedition.
Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes.
The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan. The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"
 
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shilohsfoal

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Kewl vid.
The way Josephus described the destruction of 70ad Jerusalem, it is almost as if an atom bomb had fallen it is also.

Ezekiel 22:
17 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me; they [are] all bronze, tin, iron, and lead, in the midst of a furnace; they have become dross from silver.
19 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Because you have all become dross, therefore behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 '[As men] gather silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin into the midst of a furnace, to blow fire on it, to melt [it;] so I will gather [you] in My anger and in My fury, and I will leave [you there] and melt you.
21 'Yes, I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you shall be melted in its midst.
22 'As silver is melted in the midst of a furnace, so shall you be melted in its midst; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have poured out My fury on you.' "
========================
Josephus says that the Romans sieged Jerusalem on the feast the of Passover......could that be the event Ezekiel is talking about?

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes.
The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan. The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"

There was nothing like an atom bomb in 70 ad.The heavens didnt depart as a scroll being rolled together .The stars of heaven didnt fall to the earth.The earth didnt quake. The sun and moon did not withhold thier light.

Josrphus was believed to stretch the thuth and he still didnt describe anything close to a nuclear bomb.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I would say the great city is found in Revelation 11:8, and also found below.

70 AD was not the first time it was destroyed, and it will not be the last...

.
Probably.............
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Hell will be torment without end. The pain will never cease. The fire will burn and yet will never consume. Such is the fate of those that have sold themselves to Antichrist and have so become his sin's partakers.

In contrast, the saints' steadfastness. They adhere to God's will. They believe in God's Son Christ and have salvation in Jesus.
 
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Mark51

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This is an explanation in the “proverbial nut shell.” :prayer:

Revelation 14: 11: These are people who are stubborn and idolize/worship “Babylon the Great” (World empire of false religion) and the political powers/governments and its image: the United Nations. Modern day people will suffer like the Jewish nation of ancient times did in 607 B.C.E.-Isaiah 51:17, 19; Jeremiah 25:17, 32, 33.

Revelation 19:3: “They” are referring to a myriads of angels sings praises in the heavens.

“Them” are still referring to unrighteous people (Revelation 14:11). Their punishment is likened to ancient Edom. Smoke symbolizes total destruction.-Isaiah 34:5, 10.
 
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Rubiks

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There was nothing like an atom bomb in 70 ad.The heavens didnt depart as a scroll being rolled together .The stars of heaven didnt fall to the earth.The earth didnt quake. The sun and moon did not withhold thier light.

Josrphus was believed to stretch the thuth and he still didnt describe anything close to a nuclear bomb.

Apocalyptic imagery was never intended to be understood as literal. It's not like stars can fall to the earth anyway.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Hell will be torment without end. The pain will never cease. The fire will burn and yet will never consume. Such is the fate of those that have sold themselves to Antichrist and have so become his sin's partakers.

In contrast, the saints' steadfastness. They adhere to God's will. They believe in God's Son Christ and have salvation in Jesus.
Does that also go for believers in God and Jesus who sin?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:
19 A certain Man/Judah was rich and clothed in purple and fine linen making-merry down to a-day, shiningly<2988> [Matt 22:11]
24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' "

Revelation 18
16 and saying,Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed with
fine linen and purple [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:12]
and scarlet,<2847> and have been gilded<5558> in gold <5553> and precious<2093> stone and pearls<3135>
That to one hour was desolated<2049> the so much riches.
 
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Ttalkkugjil

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Does that also go for believers in God and Jesus who sin?

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

Luke 16:
19 A certain Man/Judah was rich and clothed in purple and fine linen making-merry down to a-day, shiningly<2988> [Matt 22:11]
24 "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' "

Revelation 18
16 and saying,Woe! woe! the great City, that was having been arrayed with
fine linen and purple [Luke 16:19/Revelation 18:12]
and scarlet,<2847> and have been gilded<5558> in gold <5553> and precious<2093> stone and pearls<3135>
That to one hour was desolated<2049> the so much riches.

The merchants bewail the antichristian nation's fall. The traders that have grown rich from her, stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping, "Woe, the city, that was clothed and ornamented! For in one hour has been made desolate." This is due to their being included in the harlot's bankruptcy.

They furnished the goods for her traffic and so are bound to be included in the damage that results to her. Simultaneously their selfishness makes them keep away, lest someone identify them with her.
 
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Ronald

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How do other view these verses? They both show both a people and City and the smoke of them ascending forever and ever.
How do both Amills, Postmills, Premills and others interpret these.
Is it going to be a city that is literally going to be seen by the world burning and smoking forever? Thks for any thoughts and views on this......

Who is symbolizing the "them" here?

Reve 14:11
And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into <Ages of Ages>.
And not they are having rest of Day and of Night, the Ones worshiping the Beast and its image,
or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."....................
eiV <1519> aiwnaV <165> aiwnwn <165>

Who would be the "they" in this verse shouting for joy?

Reve 19:3
and a second time they have declared "Hallelujah"!
and the smoke of Her is ascending into <the Ages of the Ages>"
eiV touV aiwnaV twn <3588> aiwnwn <165>
As you pointed out, "ever and ever", means ages and ages, not eternity. Aion and aionios have variable meanings. If it is applied to the temporal realm, it is temporal. When applied to God, heaven, our salvation, then it means eternal. Also this applies to the word, everlasting -- should mean age-lasting or age-during. The ones suffering are in Hades. Tormented with "burning sulfur" gives us an idea that it is a literal fire as in a volcano. Smoke comes up from a volcano, burning sulfur is smelt.
"No rest day or night" for those who have taken the mark of the Beast. When did that happen in history? It hasn't. Let me give a clue who the Beast is.
The Beast has been empowered by Satan throughout history and has manifest itself in empires such as Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Rome, etc. The empire that followed Rome was the Ottoman, which was the seventh. It died and now has come to life once again, ISLAM. Ten nations will come together against Jerusalem. All these nations have a common sea, the Mediterranean. These nations have historically warred against Israel: Cush, Putt, Togarmah, Persia, etc. These are all present day Islamic nations. The mark of the Beast in the Greek is seen as a number 666. However, this looks exactly like the Arabic phrase, In the name of Allah.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
[from Big Faith Ministries]


Interestingly, Islamic Jihadists and devotees of Islam often wear headbands on their foreheads and patches on their right arms with a mark of submission (the bismillah – Islamic creed of “in the name of Allah”) followed by two crossed swords, etched or inscribed on the material. The “Chi Xi Stigma” has been an enigma to the church and some have reckoned it as a symbol rather than a number. This mark (Chi Xi Stigma) has an uncanny resemblance to the bismillah combined with the universal Islamic symbol of crossed swords.









The Greek text translates forehead and hand into the plural form due to the word, “their” in the sentence construction; yet, it refers to the singular form of forehead and hand regarding the individual. The significance of the right hand or arm and forehead in the Islamic context derives from their traditions. ]
--------------------------------------
Here is their signature if you don't quite accept the above proof. In Rev. 20:4 we see that "beheading" is their method and have been persecuted by them as seen in John's heavenly vision.
 
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TribulationSigns

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The Beast has been empowered by Satan throughout history and has manifest itself in empires such as Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Rome, etc. The empire that followed Rome was the Ottoman, which was the seventh. It died and now has come to life once again, ISLAM. Ten nations will come together against Jerusalem. All these nations have a common sea, the Mediterranean. These nations have historically warred against Israel: Cush, Putt, Togarmah, Persia, etc. These are all present day Islamic nations. The mark of the Beast in the Greek is seen as a number 666. However, this looks exactly like the Arabic phrase, In the name of Allah.

Another speculation and more private interpretations, Ronaldo.

The words which man's wisdom teaches "the many" concerning eschatology is as foolishness to God. The natural man, as a beast, the carnal man living by the flesh, the wicked man is without sound judgment and doesn't understand the Spiritual.

1st Corinthians 2:13-16
  • "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
  • But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
  • But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
  • For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
You may have read the verses before, but have you really "heard" or "receive" those verses before? The Spiritual man judgeth by that Spirit, but the natural man is like a beast, because he is evil and without the image of God, he is without sound judgment. That most believe something does not make something sound. Interpretation is not by committee. Interpretation is not by consensus. Interpretation is not by world history. It is bible history and by the sound exegesis of God's word compared diligently "with" God's word.

And no, you cannot be right in this instance. God is not giving us a "literal" history lesson about Greece, Persia and Rome, but a "spiritual" history lesson about a far more sinister spiritual rule. Christ is the prince of peace, what kingdom does He rule, Ronald? Likewise, Satan is the Prince of this world, thus what kingdom does he rule? Their rules are not from physical nations or empires with international borders but from spiritual principalities. That's what you (and many) don't understand. Even though God has stated it in many diverse ways again and again and again. You still eschew the Spiritual nature of what God is speaking about.

Ephesians 6:12
  • "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Whether we like it or not, God is here telling us that our battle is not against the power of empires or Islamic. It is not even physical. It is not political. It is not against nations. It is not against neighbor countries around nation Israel. Rather it is against a "spiritual principality, spiritual power, and spiritual wickedness." Yes, everyone reads these things but few take it to heart.

Colossians 2:14-15
  • "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
  • And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
These Principalities and powers that Christ spoiled was not Rome. It was not Greece or Persia. It was not Islamic or Iran. But it was spiritual "Egypt" and spiritual principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world. The Christian must take his mind off the nations of this world and think on a nation from above and just how it is being attacked. Take our eyes off this world and put them on Christ. We need to understand how the New Testament Congregation, the Church, which is NOW a representative of God's Kingdom on Earth since the Cross, is being attacked by the beast which the "empires" of the Old Testament that attacks Old Testament congregation of Israel AS A TYPE!

Satan is thee beast, RULING THROUGH MEN, who are as "beasts." Just as Satan is thee antichrist, ruling in many antichrists, which is MEN! Not nations or empires. There is a principle her that you are missing in your misinterpretation of Scripture. You need to think about WHY does God call wicked men "serpents", and calls Satan the "serpent?" Why is Christ called the "Star", and we, His servants, called "stars?" The point I am making is that just because you cannot recognize Satan as the beast, and natural or carnal man as a beast, doesn't mean God doesn't. Look carefully with what Paul wrote:

1st Corinthians 15:32
  • "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."
Did He wrestle with a physical bear, spar with a lion or tangle with a leopard? No, of course not. His fight was with men who were "as beasts." Why? Because the beast often seen as "without moral values, judgment, knowledge or wisdom."

If I might digress for a minute. What separates man from the dumb beasts of the field is his reasoning and intelligence. Man was created in the image or likeness of God so that (unlike dumb beasts) man was instilled with a certain intellect, reason and the inherent knowledge of His creator. Beasts have no reasoning, they have no knowledge, and they are not sensible. God often contrasts man with beast and even labels man a beast himself when he acts foolishly or without reasoning, or in a ravenous or vicious way. God even goes so far as to speak of man as a beast when illustrating man as unknowledgeable or simple (stupid, if you will). So the symbolism of a beast in the Bible, I believe, is to illustrate man under influence of Satan acting without reason or knowledge, or when lacking in wisdom and understanding, as one acting foolishly. In other words, carnal nature! For example, even King David admitted:

Psalms 73:22
  • "So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee."
Apparently, God thinks the foolish and ignorant man "IS" as a beast.

Now, the beast in Revelation, for example, that comes out of the bottomless pit is a BODY of men with SPIRIT of ANTICHRISTS. They are false prophets and christs that Christ warned about in Matthew 24 who are lacking moral values and judgments. They are the beasts in God's Eyes! Corporately, they are the "beast" the Lord is talking about! They are actually attacking the church, bringing in their doctrines (lies) of the devil that helps bring the church into apostasy and desolation. Every wondering why there are more and more liberal church leaders out there today? The homosexuality pastors? Women pastors? "Your Best Life Now" pastors? The pastors who do not preach repentance and hell?

People like you are too busy trying to link beasts with 7 heads and ten horns with 7 world empires and 10 nations, not realizing that their churches are under the judgment of God. In case you haven't learned yet, scripture interprets scripture, not man, not history books, not popular opinion, and most certainly not Church tradition. Satan is the spirit and rule that contrasts the Spirit and Rule of God. He is the pseudo-Christ, the antithesis of God. So it is not only "not ridiculous," and, not only plausible, but these contrasting four creatures and four beasts reveal the truth of it.

The Bible is its own interpreter. Is not the waters that bring life contrasted with the poisons that bring death? Is not the lamb contrasted with the wolf? Is not the good tree contrasted with the bad tree? Israel with Israel, children with children, sacrifice with sacrifice? It is exactly what we would expect if we have been studying the scriptures and know the consistency of God in His perfect design, cryptic imagery, and Biblical harmony. The symbolism isn't new or different, only the meaning is. No, it's not odd that God's Kingdom construct is symbolized by four living creatures in Revelation. Eg. a Lion, a Lamb a Man and Eagle's wings, and Satan's kingdom construct is symbolized by four beasts, a Lion with wings, and Bear and a leopard, etc. It's not odd interpretation at all, it's in harmony with the interpretations seen throughout the whole Bible. That the wind of heaven brought these four is not odd either, as it illustrates God's immutible sovereignty over even this. God sends these four beast, which are DEFINITELY not four physical or literal empires/nations. Didn't you read Scripture?

Hosea 13:7-9
  • "Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
  • I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
  • Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help."
God will be unto Israel AS the Lion, the Leopard and the Bear, and come against Israel...for her unfaithfulness. Likewise with the New Testament congregation today, tell me, Ronald, HOW will God do this to her? With Islamic nations? With the European Union? With Russia? Seriously, Ronald?! The fact is that the real threat to the church is only found WITHIN HER that God allows them (and their king, Satan) to come in as a judgment? Something that we can "see" them "AS A SIGNS"?!

Revelation 17:15-18 KJV
  • And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
  • And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
  • For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
  • And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Matthew 24:10-12 KJV
[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:23-25 KJV
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25] Behold, I have told you before.

Jesus did NOT ask us to look for empire or nations to determine the battle of Armageddon here! He is talking about false prophets and christs, pretend to be anointed by Christ, who will deceive many with their deadly deception where no man can longer find salvation (Revelation 9:6). This spiritual deception is much more dangerous than any physical empire you can think of! They are the BODY of the beast! The false prophets and christs! And no, it has NOTHING to do with some physical guns and missiles! It has nothing to do with empires or nations. It has to do with a spiritual war within God's unfaithful congregation on earth AFTER all Elect has been secured first. This is a very important reason why Satan was bound at the Cross so that Christ could build his church! Once all Elect Christ wanted to seal has been sealed, Satan and beast will then comes out of the bottomless pit and be used by God to judge those unfaithful congregations. That is the battle of Armageddon! It is a spiritual war that only God's Elect can "see" being fulfilled in the Bible, while the secular and professed believers are wasting their time looking for literal nations, literal empires, a literal mark of the beast, a literal third temple, literal wars, an enemies for nation Israel (instead of spiritual Israel, the church), etc.

Selah!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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As you pointed out, "ever and ever", means ages and ages, not eternity. Aion and aionios have variable meanings. If it is applied to the temporal realm, it is temporal. When applied to God, heaven, our salvation, then it means eternal. Also this applies to the word, everlasting -- should mean age-lasting or age-during. The ones suffering are in Hades. Tormented with "burning sulfur" gives us an idea that it is a literal fire as in a volcano. Smoke comes up from a volcano, burning sulfur is smelt.
"No rest day or night" for those who have taken the mark of the Beast. When did that happen in history? It hasn't. Let me give a clue who the Beast is.
The Beast has been empowered by Satan throughout history and has manifest itself in empires such as Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Rome, etc. The empire that followed Rome was the Ottoman, which was the seventh. It died and now has come to life once again, ISLAM. Ten nations will come together against Jerusalem. All these nations have a common sea, the Mediterranean. These nations have historically warred against Israel: Cush, Putt, Togarmah, Persia, etc. These are all present day Islamic nations. The mark of the Beast in the Greek is seen as a number 666. However, this looks exactly like the Arabic phrase, In the name of Allah.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
[from Big Faith Ministries]

Interestingly, Islamic Jihadists and devotees of Islam often wear headbands on their foreheads and patches on their right arms with a mark of submission (the bismillah – Islamic creed of “in the name of Allah”) followed by two crossed swords, etched or inscribed on the material. The “Chi Xi Stigma” has been an enigma to the church and some have reckoned it as a symbol rather than a number. This mark (Chi Xi Stigma) has an uncanny resemblance to the bismillah combined with the universal Islamic symbol of crossed swords.

The Greek text translates forehead and hand into the plural form due to the word, “their” in the sentence construction; yet, it refers to the singular form of forehead and hand regarding the individual. The significance of the right hand or arm and forehead in the Islamic context derives from their traditions. ]
--------------------------------------
Here is their signature if you don't quite accept the above proof. In Rev. 20:4 we see that "beheading" is their method and have been persecuted by them as seen in John's heavenly vision.
Islam was created in about the 6th or 7th century, and just as God allowed the Romans to conquer Jerusalem in 70ad, so also He allowed the Muslims to conquer Jerusalem.
Their Gold Dome is a testimony and evidence that God will not allow another Temple to be built..........

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Deuteronomy 68
65
Moreover among those nations he will not give thee quiet, neither by any means shall the sole of thy foot have rest; and the Lord shall give thee there another and a misgiving heart, and failing eyes, and a wasting soul.
66 And thy life shall be in suspense before thine eyes; and thou shalt be afraid by day and by night, and thou shalt have no assurance of thy life.
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would it were evening! and in the evening thou shalt say, Would it were morning! for the fear of thine heart with which thou shalt fear, and for the sights of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
68 And the Lord shall bring thee back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said, Thou shalt not see it again; and ye shall be sold there to your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and none shall buy you.
=====================================
Amazing fulfillment of Deuteronomy 28 in 70ad

The sight of the Roman army:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city.
The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance. A ceaseless cry of combatants was heard day and night, and yet the lamentations of mourners were still more dreadful. The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance. Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord
===================================
And the sight the Jews see everyday from the City and wailing wall....

Deuteronomy 68
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would it were evening! and in the evening thou shalt say, Would it were morning! for the fear of thine heart with which thou shalt fear, and for the sights of thine eyes which thou shalt see.


gold dome.jpg
 
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Ronald

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Another speculation and more private interpretations, Ronaldo.

The words which man's wisdom teaches "the many" concerning eschatology is as foolishness to God. The natural man, as a beast, the carnal man living by the flesh, the wicked man is without sound judgment and doesn't understand the Spiritual.

1st Corinthians 2:13-16
  • "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
  • But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
  • But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
  • For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
You may have read the verses before, but have you really "heard" or "receive" those verses before? The Spiritual man judgeth by that Spirit, but the natural man is like a beast, because he is evil and without the image of God, he is without sound judgment. That most believe something does not make something sound. Interpretation is not by committee. Interpretation is not by consensus. Interpretation is not by world history. It is bible history and by the sound exegesis of God's word compared diligently "with" God's word.

And no, you cannot be right in this instance. God is not giving us a "literal" history lesson about Greece, Persia and Rome, but a "spiritual" history lesson about a far more sinister spiritual rule. Christ is the prince of peace, what kingdom does He rule, Ronald? Likewise, Satan is the Prince of this world, thus what kingdom does he rule? Their rules are not from physical nations or empires with international borders but from spiritual principalities. That's what you (and many) don't understand. Even though God has stated it in many diverse ways again and again and again. You still eschew the Spiritual nature of what God is speaking about.

Ephesians 6:12
  • "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
Whether we like it or not, God is here telling us that our battle is not against the power of empires or Islamic. It is not even physical. It is not political. It is not against nations. It is not against neighbor countries around nation Israel. Rather it is against a "spiritual principality, spiritual power, and spiritual wickedness." Yes, everyone reads these things but few take it to heart.

Colossians 2:14-15
  • "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
  • And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."
These Principalities and powers that Christ spoiled was not Rome. It was not Greece or Persia. It was not Islamic or Iran. But it was spiritual "Egypt" and spiritual principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world. The Christian must take his mind off the nations of this world and think on a nation from above and just how it is being attacked. Take our eyes off this world and put them on Christ. We need to understand how the New Testament Congregation, the Church, which is NOW a representative of God's Kingdom on Earth since the Cross, is being attacked by the beast which the "empires" of the Old Testament that attacks Old Testament congregation of Israel AS A TYPE!

Satan is thee beast, RULING THROUGH MEN, who are as "beasts." Just as Satan is thee antichrist, ruling in many antichrists, which is MEN! Not nations or empires. There is a principle her that you are missing in your misinterpretation of Scripture. You need to think about WHY does God call wicked men "serpents", and calls Satan the "serpent?" Why is Christ called the "Star", and we, His servants, called "stars?" The point I am making is that just because you cannot recognize Satan as the beast, and natural or carnal man as a beast, doesn't mean God doesn't. Look carefully with what Paul wrote:

1st Corinthians 15:32
  • "If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die."
Did He wrestle with a physical bear, spar with a lion or tangle with a leopard? No, of course not. His fight was with men who were "as beasts." Why? Because the beast often seen as "without moral values, judgment, knowledge or wisdom."

If I might digress for a minute. What separates man from the dumb beasts of the field is his reasoning and intelligence. Man was created in the image or likeness of God so that (unlike dumb beasts) man was instilled with a certain intellect, reason and the inherent knowledge of His creator. Beasts have no reasoning, they have no knowledge, and they are not sensible. God often contrasts man with beast and even labels man a beast himself when he acts foolishly or without reasoning, or in a ravenous or vicious way. God even goes so far as to speak of man as a beast when illustrating man as unknowledgeable or simple (stupid, if you will). So the symbolism of a beast in the Bible, I believe, is to illustrate man under influence of Satan acting without reason or knowledge, or when lacking in wisdom and understanding, as one acting foolishly. In other words, carnal nature! For example, even King David admitted:

Psalms 73:22
  • "So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee."
Apparently, God thinks the foolish and ignorant man "IS" as a beast.

Now, the beast in Revelation, for example, that comes out of the bottomless pit is a BODY of men with SPIRIT of ANTICHRISTS. They are false prophets and christs that Christ warned about in Matthew 24 who are lacking moral values and judgments. They are the beasts in God's Eyes! Corporately, they are the "beast" the Lord is talking about! They are actually attacking the church, bringing in their doctrines (lies) of the devil that helps bring the church into apostasy and desolation. Every wondering why there are more and more liberal church leaders out there today? The homosexuality pastors? Women pastors? "Your Best Life Now" pastors? The pastors who do not preach repentance and hell?

People like you are too busy trying to link beasts with 7 heads and ten horns with 7 world empires and 10 nations, not realizing that their churches are under the judgment of God. In case you haven't learned yet, scripture interprets scripture, not man, not history books, not popular opinion, and most certainly not Church tradition. Satan is the spirit and rule that contrasts the Spirit and Rule of God. He is the pseudo-Christ, the antithesis of God. So it is not only "not ridiculous," and, not only plausible, but these contrasting four creatures and four beasts reveal the truth of it.

The Bible is its own interpreter. Is not the waters that bring life contrasted with the poisons that bring death? Is not the lamb contrasted with the wolf? Is not the good tree contrasted with the bad tree? Israel with Israel, children with children, sacrifice with sacrifice? It is exactly what we would expect if we have been studying the scriptures and know the consistency of God in His perfect design, cryptic imagery, and Biblical harmony. The symbolism isn't new or different, only the meaning is. No, it's not odd that God's Kingdom construct is symbolized by four living creatures in Revelation. Eg. a Lion, a Lamb a Man and Eagle's wings, and Satan's kingdom construct is symbolized by four beasts, a Lion with wings, and Bear and a leopard, etc. It's not odd interpretation at all, it's in harmony with the interpretations seen throughout the whole Bible. That the wind of heaven brought these four is not odd either, as it illustrates God's immutible sovereignty over even this. God sends these four beast, which are DEFINITELY not four physical or literal empires/nations. Didn't you read Scripture?

Hosea 13:7-9
  • "Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
  • I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
  • Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help."
God will be unto Israel AS the Lion, the Leopard and the Bear, and come against Israel...for her unfaithfulness. Likewise with the New Testament congregation today, tell me, Ronald, HOW will God do this to her? With Islamic nations? With the European Union? With Russia? Seriously, Ronald?! The fact is that the real threat to the church is only found WITHIN HER that God allows them (and their king, Satan) to come in as a judgment? Something that we can "see" them "AS A SIGNS"?!

Revelation 17:15-18 KJV
  • And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
  • And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
  • For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
  • And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Matthew 24:10-12 KJV
[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:23-25 KJV
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25] Behold, I have told you before.

Jesus did NOT ask us to look for empire or nations to determine the battle of Armageddon here! He is talking about false prophets and christs, pretend to be anointed by Christ, who will deceive many with their deadly deception where no man can longer find salvation (Revelation 9:6). This spiritual deception is much more dangerous than any physical empire you can think of! They are the BODY of the beast! The false prophets and christs! And no, it has NOTHING to do with some physical guns and missiles! It has nothing to do with empires or nations. It has to do with a spiritual war within God's unfaithful congregation on earth AFTER all Elect has been secured first. This is a very important reason why Satan was bound at the Cross so that Christ could build his church! Once all Elect Christ wanted to seal has been sealed, Satan and beast will then comes out of the bottomless pit and be used by God to judge those unfaithful congregations. That is the battle of Armageddon! It is a spiritual war that only God's Elect can "see" being fulfilled in the Bible, while the secular and professed believers are wasting their time looking for literal nations, literal empires, a literal mark of the beast, a literal third temple, literal wars, an enemies for nation Israel (instead of spiritual Israel, the church), etc.

Selah!

You see differently. That's OK, there are many views. You are entitled to symbolize/spiritualize eschatology, I take most of it literally. Symbolism is usually explained in scripture.
The great red dragon is Satan. The symbolism of seven heads and ten horns is explained. In Rev. 12 his tail drew one third of the stars (anglels) and cast them to earth,. This is past, when Lucifer rebelled, he took one third of the angels with him - (maybe 200 million). The dragon stood before the woman (Israel) who was ready to give birth to a child (Jesus). Vs. 5 says He was caught up to God's throne. This is so far historical covering Lucifer's rebellion to Christ's birth, death and resurrection. Then it jumps into the future, a spiritual war in the heavens between Michael and Satan. Then Satan is cast down, attacks Israel and those who follow Jesus. Israel is protected in the wilderness (a remnant Israel). During the Great Tribulation, the Church will be raptured/resurrected and a remnant Jewish population (including the 144,000) will be saved. They will come to the knowledge of Christ for they will have seen him descend as He left in the clouds (and EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM). Rev.13:8 says, "All in habitants of the earth will worship the beast - all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world."
Question: When did that happen in history? I DID NOT HAPPEN YET.
>>>All this is speaking of catastrophic events, when the world system is coming to an end. The seals, trumpets, bowls are not speaking of anything that already happened. This is Judgment Day - take your head out of the sand. They are burning churches and chopping off heads. The severity of terrorism is experienced in Muslim countries more so, but it is spreading.

"I also wanted to know about the ten horns on the its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell - the horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom. He gave me an explanation: The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth, It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom, After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time." Daniel 7:20-25

The ten horns are kingdoms such as Iran, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Turkey, etc. all surrounding Israel. A little horn emerges (the antichrist) out of the seven, but first three horns are plucked. Recently we have seen Sadaam Hussein, Qudafi, Mubarek plucked from their thrones. An attempt to remove Assad has failed. So now one of the heads (of the seven remaining) appears to suffer a deadly blow but comes back to life, as the eighth horn.
We are seeing this happen right before our eyes. The war against Iraq, then the Arab Spring (a series of revolts that started in Dec. 2010, then like dominoes in 2011, nations were turned upside down and leaders removed.
You think this is nothing? Coincidence? Scriptures tell us that in the end times Israel will be attacked by many nations. This has already happened in 1948-49 and 1967 AND tensions have been brewing since with the Palestinians.
Iran is the #1 financial supporter of terrorism and has many times threatened Israel with annihilation and the US as well. Wake up! Iran is allies with Russia, Syria and now Turkey as well and they most likely have nukes.
When one third of the planet is on fire, billions killed and you are all of a sudden resurrected -- you'll finally get it and say "Oh, I guess 70AD was not the Great Tribulation ... this is Judgment and oh my, there's Jesus. Remember the face above, I think Akiane Kramarik (at 8 years old) got it right.
 
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Ronald

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Islam was created in about the 6th or 7th century, and just as God allowed the Romans to conquer Jerusalem in 70ad, so also He allowed the Muslims to conquer Jerusalem.
Their Gold Dome is a testimony and evidence that God will not allow another Temple to be built..........

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Deuteronomy 68
65
Moreover among those nations he will not give thee quiet, neither by any means shall the sole of thy foot have rest; and the Lord shall give thee there another and a misgiving heart, and failing eyes, and a wasting soul.
66 And thy life shall be in suspense before thine eyes; and thou shalt be afraid by day and by night, and thou shalt have no assurance of thy life.
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would it were evening! and in the evening thou shalt say, Would it were morning! for the fear of thine heart with which thou shalt fear, and for the sights of thine eyes which thou shalt see.
68 And the Lord shall bring thee back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said, Thou shalt not see it again; and ye shall be sold there to your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and none shall buy you.
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Amazing fulfillment of Deuteronomy 28 in 70ad

The sight of the Roman army:

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city.
The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance. A ceaseless cry of combatants was heard day and night, and yet the lamentations of mourners were still more dreadful. The consternation and terror which now prevailed induced many inhabitants to desire that a foreign foe might come, and effect their deliverance. Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord
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And the sight the Jews see everyday from the City and wailing wall....

Deuteronomy 68
67 In the morning thou shalt say, Would it were evening! and in the evening thou shalt say, Would it were morning! for the fear of thine heart with which thou shalt fear, and for the sights of thine eyes which thou shalt see.


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This is a fulfillment of prophecy. In 70 AD, Jerusalem was destroyed by ONE nation. But that has nothing to do with the future JUDGMENT.
Revelation 18
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving Her blows
death and sorrow and famine.
19 For to
one hour She was desolated.”

The Romans took more than one hour or even one day to do this.
As a matter of future prophecy to soon be fulfilled, IN ONE HOUR, much of the destruction of the world system will take place. How is that possible? Either a nuclear war, where missiles are fired without constraint, without wisdom by some 12-13 countries and a billion(s) people are toast IN ONE HOUR. Or an asteroid or super volcanic eruption could do this as well. Make no mistake, the Great Tribulation will be 5,000 times greater than Jerusalem 70 AD siege. In that siege, Josephus said 1.1 million were killed. Most likely as many as 5 billion will be killed in the Great Tribulation.
Babylon is the world system that has spread from that one city. The languages were confused and people were scattered along with all the false religions, philosophies, mysticism, spiritism, humanism, astrology, cults, witchcraft, Satanism, etc -- all of the junk in the world.


Zachariah 14:12 describes the effects of a nuclear bomb, (written 2500 years ago)
"This is the plague with which the LORD will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will dissolve (or melt) while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will dissolve in their sockets, and their tongues will dissolve in their mouths."


A neutron/atomic bomb has that effect. The blast melts the flesh off your body before you drop to the ground. Sorry for the imagery. You can distort this, symbolize to mean anything if you chose and some will -- oh the imagination of some of these symbolic interpretations are really out there. Just read it as it is - literally.
 
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