Is it impossible to lose your salvation?

fhansen · Apr 18, 2019

MDC said:
There’s always a BUT when ones doctrine cannot submit to the sufficiency of Christ alone in salvation. In regeneration doesn’t the will of mans desire of righteousness and his desire to flee wickedness a natural response from being saved? Is not the sanctification process in a believer done by Gods power and Spirit alone as the believer perseveres in faith to the end? Is not faith the gift of God to the elect alone and the result of regeneration? So you are saying mans willingness to stay obedient and faithful to the end is the decisive factor whether one is saved in the end or not correct? How then if man must cooperate in order to stay saved is Christ alone sufficient to save? Technically you’re saying Christ is only a help for man to work for his salvation

Technically I'm saying God wants man's will involved, to the greatest extent possible, for our own good. He wants us to say "yes", with His help. It's not either/or; it's both/and. Otherwise He may as well have avoided all the pain, suffering, sin, evil, and death and just stocked heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate to begin with. Instead He's counting on us to some little extent, He covets our "yes", and continued "yes", regardless of how weakly we might be able to voice it at first.

frogoon234 · Apr 18, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
I just was curious about those posts online about people who have died that were Christian and experienced going to Hell. Do people really think that it’s all made up and you shouldn’t listen to those testimonies? Do people really think it’s impossible to lose your salvation? Cause there are many testimonies of people who have seen the names of some believers removed from the book of life due to backsliding and unrepentant sin.

Tell me what you think about all this, is it something that you just ignore and hope they’re wrong? Please explain what you do to convince yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

When i was 18 i got saved. A spirit came to me and told me like alot of people my life would be very difficult. I immediately prayed that i would die so that i wouldn't lose my salvation. 18 years later after praying literally 100s of times for death and going through many trials (like most christians). I'm still not dead. If Jesus thought i could lose my salvation at 18 (he is very intelligent just as some one who plans for a war is intelligent) he would have killed me then knowing i would be tempted quite often. I'm 36 now and i'm still not dead. If you were saved yesterday then you'll be saved 10,000 years from now. Our works will be judged but we will not spend an eternity in hell. Jesus said do not be afraid because there are many mansions in his house.

At first i thought quite often i had to earn my salvation or keep from losing it, now i know from personal experience, it is by his grace that we are free from eternal damnation.

johnnywong · Apr 18, 2019

MDC said:
If you believe salvation or eternal life can be lost then it’s automatic you’re relying upon your righteous works as the basis for saving you in the end. So please tell me, where does Christ and His merits fall into your soteriology? The gospel teaches eternal life rest in Christ alone apart from mans works

But you have to be careful about Will vs Work .
We are not saved by Work but then we are not saved by nothing!
We are saved by Will of our Soul which is much much costly then work!

MDC · Apr 18, 2019

fhansen said:
Technically I'm saying God wants man's will involved, to the greatest extent possible, for our own good. He wants us to say "yes", with His help. It's not either/or; it's both/and. Otherwise He may as well have avoided all the pain, suffering, sin, evil, and death and just stocked heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate to begin with. Instead He's counting on us to some little extent, He covets our "yes", and continued "yes", regardless of how weakly we might be able to voice it at first.

God makes one willing via regeneration. Ezekiel 36: 25-27.

MDC · Apr 18, 2019

johnnywong said:
But you have to be careful about Will vs Work .
We are not saved by Work but then we are not saved by nothing!
We are saved by Will of our Soul which is much much costly then work!

Not quite get what you are saying

fhansen · Apr 18, 2019

MDC said:
God makes one willing via regeneration. Ezekiel 36: 25-27.

He'll give us a new heart all right, but not without our consent, not without our playing our little part. the lesson that the New Covenant wants us to understand is not that we need to be righteous first of all but that we need God first of all in order to be righteous, in order to simply be who he created us to be we need His Spirit, that's the choice man needs to make, that's what he must come to understand his need of. We cannot do it on our own, not even close. Without the will of man being involved to that small extent, all of Christianity loses it's purpose and meaning

SeventhFisherofMen · Apr 18, 2019

frogoon234 said:
When i was 18 i got saved. A spirit came to me and told me like alot of people my life would be very difficult. I immediately prayed that i would die so that i wouldn't lose my salvation. 18 years later after praying literally 100s of times for death and going through many trials (like most christians). I'm still not dead. If Jesus thought i could lose my salvation at 18 (he is very intelligent just as some one who plans for a war is intelligent) he would have killed me then knowing i would be tempted quite often. I'm 36 now and i'm still not dead. If you were saved yesterday then you'll be saved 10,000 years from now. Our works will be judged but we will not spend an eternity in hell. Jesus said do not be afraid because there are many mansions in his house.

At first i thought quite often i had to earn my salvation or keep from losing it, now i know from personal experience, it is by his grace that we are free from eternal damnation.

I would be careful before assuming that just because Jesus didn’t kill you like you asked that it’s impossible to lose your salvation.

MDC · Apr 18, 2019

fhansen said:
He'll give us a new heart all right, but not without our consent, not without our playing our little part. the lesson that the New Covenant wants us to understand is not that we need to be righteous first of all but that we need God first of all in order to be righteous, in order to simply be who he created us to be, His Spirit, that's the choice man needs to make, that's what he must come to understand his need of. We cannot do it on our own, not even close. Without the will of man being involved to that small extent, all of Christianity lises it's purpose and meaning

So God needs our consent now huh? So where is that in scripture? And what purpose is lost exactly? A choice is just an action or desire that is a result of ones hearts disposition. Man is dead in sin. At enmity with God. Romans 8:7. This is where your pelagian beliefs show. Sinners don’t seek the true God. There is none that seeketh after God. Romans 3:11. The will is in subjection to ones nature. A dead sinner cannot will himself to rest in Christ and forsake his sin. It’s contrary to his nature. It is why one must be born again of the Spirit

frogoon234 · Apr 18, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
I would be careful before assuming that just because Jesus didn’t kill you like you asked that it’s impossible to lose your salvation.

Why? Do you have Bible quotes? David told his country men "the battle is the Lords". Jesus slew Goliath not David. David knew he had nothing to lose and he was used by Jesus because he had faith in Jesus Christ and not in himself. That being said "pride goeth before destruction" and "how long will you simple love your simplicity", and Proverbs chapter 1 and Jesus grew in grace and knowledge before he was prepared for his works as an adult and there are severe consequences to excessive pride and sin that we commit in this lifetime.

All people who have accepted Jesus's sacrifice on the cross will be saved from eternal suffering. The quality of the mansion we have in heaven is determined by our fruits which is independent of the theological beliefs we have quite often. Some who are calvinist have great fruits and some who are 7th day Adventists have great fruits and some who are Catholic have great fruits. Jesus said "fear not because there are many mansions in my Father's house"

I would be careful telling people they can lose their salvation.

SeventhFisherofMen · Apr 18, 2019

frogoon234 said:
Why? Do you have Bible quotes? David told his country men "the battle is the Lords". Jesus slew Goliath not David. David knew he had nothing to lose and he was used by Jesus because he had faith in Jesus Christ and not in himself. That being said "pride goeth before destruction" and "how long will you simple love your simplicity", and Proverbs chapter 1 and Jesus grew in grace and knowledge before he was prepared for his works as an adult and there are severe consequences to excessive pride and sin that we commit in this lifetime.

All people who have accepted Jesus's sacrifice on the cross will be saved from eternal suffering. The quality of the mansion we have in heaven is determined by our fruits which is independent of the theological beliefs we have quite often. Some who are calvinist have great fruits and some who are 7th day Adventists have great fruits and some who are Catholic have great fruits. Jesus said "fear not because there are many mansions in my Father's house"

I would be careful telling people they can lose their salvation.

You sound a little angry so there is no point in arguing with emotion.

To think that you cannot miss Heaven is dangerous man plain and simple. That’s all for now I don’t want to argue with you because you disagree with me.

frogoon234 · Apr 18, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
You sound a little angry so there is no point in arguing with emotion.

To think that you cannot miss Heaven is dangerous man plain and simple. That’s all for now I don’t want to argue with you because you disagree with me.

lol. Yeah, i agree with you hell is not a place anyone should want to go to. You could redirect me to a website if you don't want to discuss in on this forum. I believe my position is Biblical. You believe your position is Biblical. I might be swayed by you, I might not. You can always pray for me. I believe people who accept Jesus's sacrifice on the cross will be saved from eternal suffering.

SeventhFisherofMen · Apr 18, 2019

frogoon234 said:
lol. Yeah, i agree with you hell is not a place anyone should want to go to. You could redirect me to a website if you don't want to discuss in on this forum. I believe my position is Biblical. You believe your position is Biblical. I might be swayed by you, I might not. You can always pray for me. I believe people who accept Jesus's sacrifice on the cross will be saved from eternal suffering.

Fair enough we can agree to disagree. I’m sure if we both agree we should ask for forgiveness when we sin, try our best not to sin, and strive to follow Christ, we both could end up in Heaven regardless of whether we believe we can lose our salvation or not, and by then we can leave our past behind.

MDC · Apr 18, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Fair enough we can agree to disagree. I’m sure if we both agree we should ask for forgiveness when we sin, try our best not to sin, and strive to follow Christ, we both could end up in Heaven regardless of whether we believe we can lose our salvation or not, and by then we can leave our past behind.

So what gives you assurance that you “could” end up in heaven?

SeventhFisherofMen · Apr 18, 2019

MDC said:
So what gives you assurance that you “could” end up in heaven?

Assurance and could don’t really go together. Assurance assumes absolute results and could assumes possible results, see how your question doesn’t quite work?

MDC · Apr 18, 2019

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Assurance and could don’t really go together. Assurance assumes absolute results and could assumes possible results, see how your question doesn’t quite work?

Well since you aren’t absolute about heaven then what’s your guess on the possibility of making it to heaven and what’s the decisive factor for making it according to one who can lose his or her salvation?

SeventhFisherofMen · Apr 18, 2019

MDC said:
Well since you aren’t absolute about heaven then what’s your guess on the possibility of making it to heaven and what’s the decisive factor for making it according to one who can lose his or her salvation?

Sorry if I was rude in my previous response.
To answer your question is something everyone asks, and is a question that was asked Jesus when He walked the Earth as a human, and I’m sure you remember his response:

Luke 18:18-22
And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

As you can see Jesus spoke of obedience to His commands in order to inherit eternal life.

I do not claim to know everything but I do know that having a personal relationship with Jesus and repenting when we sin and striving to follow Christ, the Christ that is depicted in The Bible is a great way to walk the narrow road. I do not think Jesus would have said in The Bible “Not all who say to me ‘Lord Lord’ will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but those that do the will of my Father who is in Heaven.” unless it was a narrow path that lead to salvation. If all we had to do was confess we believe in Jesus and say we’re a Christian and then nothing can take us away from salvation then I don’t think it would be a narrow path. Anyways hope that helped. Keep in mind I not only quoted from The Bible on this but I quoted Jesus, you really can’t get any more specific than that.

Dorothy Mae · Apr 19, 2019

Kenny'sID said:
I've used the term "reprobate" (as in refusing to accept) here, because you're right, they truly do not understand it in an overall sense, not consciously, but it does seem to seep out that they get it on a subconscious level....always the way. And the replies we get back after posting individual scriptures that beyond doubt prove them wrong, where they simply refuse to see the truth of the scripture, are so bizarre that if nothing else, it's truly interesting to watch.

The question is, when God gives people over to reprobate mind, as he has done in the past, can they ever come out of it? Some here say they did.

A reprobate is a pretty low level of moral behaviour. It is not merely one who no longer believes although those who choose that kind of behaviour no longer believe for sure unless they bought into OSAS. Then they can be a reprobate in their mind and still go to Heaven. That is, of course, very sad.

Dorothy Mae · Apr 19, 2019

MDC said:
For one working for their salvation, the deception is to think you had it to begin with. Eternal life = eternal security in Christ where the elects faith perseveres by Gods power and for His glory

Huh? I’ve met 100s of Christians and never met one “working for their salvation.” I’ve known some, not many, who strive to known him, and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings, although the latter not with enthusiasm. Your argument is opposing a straw man. We don’t think as you think we do.

Dorothy Mae · Apr 19, 2019

Gods not mad said:
please tell me what repentance looks like. let say you want to repent what would you do?

Are you testing me? This requires a separate post. I’m on the road today.

what are you talking about here someone who believes in osac has put all salvation to save in the hands of the savior Christ that sounds like the opposite of pride to me.

Sounds like laziness. Where does Jesus promise he is keeping you faith for you and you don’t need to obey, take care, pray, give, love or anything but convince yourself he does it all for you?

you really don't understand where OSACers are coming from. you think you do though.

Sure I do. They a think they cannot fail to go to heaven no matter what they do or fail to do. Do you disagree? Please specify.

i discuss the theology that does not embrace osac all the time and i have throughout this forum as well. i spent 20 years believing your way so ask a question this is a exciting day for you you have finally met that one person. truth is i see on this forum a lot of osac members answering scriptural questions put i seem to never get my questions or scriptures addressed.

Well this u your exciting day as I will answer your questions as long as you don’t offer questions based on untruth. So, what do you think I believe about salvation and eternal destiny? What do you think my part is in the matter? I said what I think you think (do nothing but think right) so what do I believe, please?

sonship is blood marriage is an agreement. plus there was a high price paid for that sonship this is a weak argument.

What is a blood marriage?

please tell me what repentance looks like. let say you want to repent what would you do?

As I said, need more time.

Gods not mad · Apr 19, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
As I said, need more time.

ok take your time.

Is it impossible to lose your salvation?

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