Is it impossible to lose your salvation?

Kenny'sID said:

Thanks, I'll add that to my list of scripture for this subject.

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No problem. However, that is just one passage. Reading it in context makes the message much more powerful. As you probably know, Galatians 1-4 is focused on rebuking those who insisted that Gentiles should obey the Jewish Law. I personally found it hilarious that Paul actually wished all those who insisted Gentiles should be circumcised "go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" However, there is a shift in chapter 5. It basically says, "Now, just because you don't have to obey the law it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want!"

Galatians 5:13-26
Life by the Spirit
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

No Username Found said:

No problem. However, that is just one passage. Reading it in context makes the message much more powerful. As you probably know, Galatians 1-4 is focused on rebuking those who insisted that Gentiles should obey the Jewish Law. I personally found it hilarious that Paul actually wished all those who insisted Gentiles should be circumcised "go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" However, there is a shift in chapter 5. It basically says, "Now, just because you don't have to obey the law it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want!"

Galatians 5:13-26
Life by the Spirit
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

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Most of the commandments are listed in the new testament with warnings if we live in those sins, we are off to hell when the time comes, so calling it Jewish law does not do away with Gods rules.

Here you go, if you all think you can do these following sins as a lifestyle and still get to heaven, then maybe you need to read the scripture a little closer. God means what he says and there will be no Hippy Dippy Jesus on the judgment seat saying, dudes don't worry, you're all in and you never even had to do a thing, so chill...now let's party! He'll be angry and just and not the Christ many have created in their minds, out of sheer selfishness.

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3-6 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No sexually immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

Rev. 22:12-16 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Matt 25:41-46 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

SeventhFisherofMen said:

I just was curious about those posts online about people who have died that were Christian and experienced going to Hell. Do people really think that it’s all made up and you shouldn’t listen to those testimonies? Do people really think it’s impossible to lose your salvation? Cause there are many testimonies of people who have seen the names of some believers removed from the book of life due to backsliding and unrepentant sin.

Tell me what you think about all this, is it something that you just ignore and hope they’re wrong? Please explain what you do to convince yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

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Perhaps, it is impossible to lose your salvation....

...But it is very very possible to be deceived by fake salvation brought by a false teaching or false gospel. The Bible warns of this and I'm afraid it's also very very possible that the majority will be deceived.

mister rogers said:

Those who think they can reach (have reached) sinless perfection, have they really come to know Jesus as their Savior?

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Who here thinks that? I ask because that is an accusation often thrown around yet never once verified, not that I know of.

We are saved by Grace (Eph 2:8), just as well:

None is righteous, no, not one (Rom3:10)

None is righteous, no, not one (Ps 53:1)

Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins. (Ecc7:20)

SeventhFisherofMen said:

I just was curious about those posts online about people who have died that were Christian and experienced going to Hell. Do people really think that it’s all made up and you shouldn’t listen to those testimonies? Do people really think it’s impossible to lose your salvation? Cause there are many testimonies of people who have seen the names of some believers removed from the book of life due to backsliding and unrepentant sin.

Tell me what you think about all this, is it something that you just ignore and hope they’re wrong? Please explain what you do to convince yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

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Do you have a link where I could find those who thought they were christians and went to hell?

I can answer your question although I don’t believe the answer. Those who believe they can never go to hell believe that God does it all and they are totally passive when it comes to salvation.

MDC said:

If you believe salvation or eternal life can be lost then it’s automatic you’re relying upon your righteous works as the basis for saving you in the end.

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Strawman argument. No one believe this. This is the straw man defense/attack OSASers use.

The truth is we believe we are saved into relationship with God and it can be lost same as any relationship by neglect. Doesn’t mean it’s kept by works.

So please tell me, where does Christ and His merits fall into your soteriology? The gospel teaches eternal life rest in Christ alone apart from mans works

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The gospel teaches men to repent of the sins. That is a requirement. Does it mean repenting is you saving you? It is works salvation if you see the need to repent?

Kenny'sID said:

Who here thinks that? I ask because that is an accusation often thrown around yet never once verified, not that I know of.

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A main defense of OSAS is attacking the character of their opponent. Believing you’re perfect or will be is a character issue, not theology, because the root is pride.

Using the old “you think you save yourself by works” attack is again a character issue. That is mainly what these people use and it shows the roots of that theology.

Dorothy Mae said:

A main defense of OSAS is attacking the character of their opponent. Believing you’re perfect or will be is a character issue, not theology, because the root is pride.

Using the old “you think you save yourself by works” attack is again a character issue. That is mainly what these people use and it shows the roots of that theology.

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Agree, and yes, very common tactics, while they simply are not true. Have you even considered yourself perfect, or that you were saving yourself? Of course not.

The way i see it, the only way Satan can make an untrue theology work is with arguments/comments of untrue substance...makes perfect sense to me anyway.

SeventhFisherofMen said:

I just was curious about those posts online about people who have died that were Christian and experienced going to Hell. Do people really think that it’s all made up and you shouldn’t listen to those testimonies? Do people really think it’s impossible to lose your salvation? Cause there are many testimonies of people who have seen the names of some believers removed from the book of life due to backsliding and unrepentant sin.

Tell me what you think about all this, is it something that you just ignore and hope they’re wrong? Please explain what you do to convince yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

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Its not impossible to lose your salvation. If you take the mark of the beast you will end up in hell. That's what Revelation 14:9-12 says. Verse 9 says if anyone worships the beast and his image or takes his mark, he will have to suffer for it forever in hell. You have to endure till the end. That's what is said all over the Bible.

Kenny'sID said:

Agree, and yes, very common tactics, while they simply are not true. Have you even considered yourself perfect, or that you were saving yourself? Of course not.

The way i see it, the only way Satan can make an untrue theology work is with arguments/comments of untrue substance...makes perfect sense to me anyway.

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He always attaches personal gain to the matter to glue the believer to the proposal with emotional froth. OSASers have their whole eternal destiny on the line, they think, hence they attack like guard dogs any threat. The spirit reveals the source.

Dorothy Mae said:

, hence they attack like guard dogs any threat.

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lol!

Seems to me the truth, even if it is the narrow way, would be much easier to deal with.

No Username Found said:

No problem. However, that is just one passage. Reading it in context makes the message much more powerful. As you probably know, Galatians 1-4 is focused on rebuking those who insisted that Gentiles should obey the Jewish Law. I personally found it hilarious that Paul actually wished all those who insisted Gentiles should be circumcised "go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" However, there is a shift in chapter 5. It basically says, "Now, just because you don't have to obey the law it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want!"

Galatians 5:13-26
Life by the Spirit
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

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I think I misunderstood your post a bit in my first reply to that, and by "Jewish law", I now take it you didn't mean the commandments, correct?

Kenny'sID said:

lol!

Seems to me the truth, even if it is the narrow way, would be much easier to deal with.


I think I misunderstood your post a bit in my first reply to that, and by "Jewish law", I now take it you didn't mean the commandments, correct?

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I was referring to the Law proper. Gentiles are not required to follow Jewish laws (like circumcision) to be saved. However, just because they don't have to follow the law for salvation (food, ceremonial, sacrificial...) that doesn't mean they can do anything they want. Galatians 5 specifically addresses the carnal Christian. They will not inherit the kingdom. They need to follow the two greatest commandments. First, to love God. But Jesus said that if you love Him you will obey the commandments.

Kenny'sID said:

lol!

Seems to me the truth, even if it is the narrow way, would be much easier to deal with.

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The truth is a lot easier to deal with although not as comforting as lies.

What has been amazing to me is how None of those who believe in OSAS understand the theology of those who do not. Their whole explanantion consists of belittling our Position using a description that is absurd. (Like, "so do you lose your salvation after 1, 2, or 3 sins and are you then becoming saved and unsaved regularly?) Why are the so blind to what we believe? I understand perfectly what they believe. And I can explain it without and belittling or exaggeration if I choose. I have not met a single OSAS believer who can do this about the theology that does not embrace OSAS. This is why I say there is a spiritual blindness involved. Mentally it does not make sense. But a spiritual blindness fits.

Ttalkkugjil said:

I don't believe in the OSAS doctrine.

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I think that it would have to be a very conscious and deliberate turn and ditch Christ kinda action.

If not.. then.. were you saved in the first place?

SeventhFisherofMen said:

Thanks, it’s just nice to know I’m not the only Christian on CF that believes this way.

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FWIW, historically the church had always believed that way. We can stray, we can refuse and reject the gift we've received, we can opt for a life of sin over the life of God, we can fall away again, just as Adam did originally. But keep following God on the straight path, returning to it/Him again if ever wandering off, striving, moving onward and upward overall, growing in love with the help of His grace and God will have a place for us in His Kingdom. He alone knows whose names are written the Book of Life and whose are not, but either way He's trustworthy and true and we can know He won't refuse anyone who's done right, who's done His will, to the best of their abilities and knowledge.

JacksBratt said:

I think that it would have to be a very conscious and deliberate turn and ditch Christ kinda action.

If not.. then.. were you saved in the first place?

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They who shipwreck their faith had a real true saving faith. It is a conscious choosing of sin and deliberately quenching the Holy Spirit. It is not easy nor quick but it can be and has been done.

fhansen said:

FWIW, historically the church had always believed that way. We can stray, we can refuse and reject the gift we've received, we can opt for a life of sin over the life of God, we can fall away again, just as Adam did originally. But keep following God on the straight path, returning to it/Him again if ever wandering off, striving, moving onward and upward overall, growing in love with the help of His grace and God will have a place for us in His Kingdom. He alone knows whose names are written the Book of Life and whose are not, but either way He's trustworthy and true and we can know He won't refuse anyone who's done right, who's done His will, to the best of their abilities and knowledge.

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Sounds good unless one tests this theory in real life.

You see people claim they served to the best of their ability but God is the judge, not racers man of himself. The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. IOW, we easily fool ourselves about ourselves.

Dorothy Mae said:

Sounds good unless one tests this theory in real life.

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Ok, where's the theory though? I believe you agree that we can lose salvation?

Perhaps it would help to think of being born again, in terms of race. Naturally speaking everyone is born NATURALLY (of a woman, the natural way) Jesus told Nicodemus that we must be BORN AGAIN. The first time, the natural way, the second time of the Spirit. The whole idea is in the term, BORN AGAIN. In Adam we are all born and live a natural life. BUT@ when someone believes into Jesus Christ, they experience a "rebirth" a second birth! The first is a natural birth and EVERYONE experiences that! When we are born AGAIN, we become born of God, born from above. Just as the choices we make in Adam have nothing to do with our natural heritage (if you think you are a dog and you live like a dog, and even act like a dog, no one will mistake you for a dog. EVERYONE born of Adam resembles Adam (no one looks like a dog). BUT! When we believe and are born again, we have to first die in who we are, naturally. We die, leaving the race of Adam behind. We become born of God or according to Matthew 1:1 This is the book of the GENERATION of Jesus Christ. Just as we resemble Adam in our natural birth, how much more will we resemble the second Adam, Jesus! How is it that a believer, who is truly born AGAIN, ever go back to what he/she DIED to??? DEATH is that impassable gulf that separates the living from the dead! They left the race of Adam and were born again of the generation of Jesus Christ! Hope this helps.

SeventhFisherofMen said:

I just was curious about those posts online about people who have died that were Christian and experienced going to Hell. Do people really think that it’s all made up and you shouldn’t listen to those testimonies? Do people really think it’s impossible to lose your salvation? Cause there are many testimonies of people who have seen the names of some believers removed from the book of life due to backsliding and unrepentant sin.

Tell me what you think about all this, is it something that you just ignore and hope they’re wrong? Please explain what you do to convince yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

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Hello, SeventhFisherofMen, and all.

Peed on, pooped on, puked on, by us. But…
Father still loves His little darlings.

Every parent has experienced that
at least once, I'm sure, but it did not lessen
the love we have for our children. Did it?

How do I know salvation is assured?
I know because it is not about me,
doing the saving it is about Jesus.

What is an infant doing that is ensuring it lives?
The peeing, pooping, puking… Perhaps?

Isn't the parent doing all the real work?
Making sure it has enough to drink, living water,
enough to eat, bread of life,
the daily bathe, cleansing of all unrighteousness.

Who insures the baby lives?
The infant is only enjoying what is being given.

I see the plan of salvation as:
God decides to create man.
He says the first 6 days of His creation are very good.
Having starting a very good work in us,
He will bring to completion.

Adam does his thing and all of his descendants
end up being condemned to death,
not for what they personally did
but because of what Adam did.
No choice on their part, death is assured by God.

Jesus, with a plan, to remedy this,
from before the foundation of the earth,
intercedes, showing His no greater love
for us, by choosing to die on the cross
for His enemies.

Life assured by God!
He takes the hit for our sins and dies for us.
He is raised from the dead. We are raised,
from the dead with him, to live forever with Him.

We had no choice to make us part of the first Adam.
We have no choice to make us part of second Adam.
In the first Adam all die in the second all live.

We live by what Jesus did for us
by giving us all life in the first Adam.
Which He took away from us so He could give
all of us eternal life in the second Adam.

He did this to demonstrate
His unconditional love
for us.

John wrote,
1 John 5:13 (KJV)

"These things have I written unto you
that believe on the name of the Son of God;
that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
and that ye may believe
on the name of the Son of God."

If we can lose it, we don't have it.
Above verse we do.
What do you think?

God bless
JP