What if we had died on the cross

mawallace

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Listening to a speaker they said

Christ died in our place on the cross. It should have been us dying on the cross for our sins

It made me think, would God have been satisfied if we had died on a cross, I think that he would still want more punishment then that as we would still be condemned eternally. What do others think we the statement
 
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thecolorsblend

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Listening to a speaker they said

Christ died in our place on the cross. It should have been us dying on the cross for our sins

It made me think, would God have been satisfied if we had died on a cross, I think that he would still want more punishment then that as we would still be condemned eternally. What do others think we the statement
I am uncomfortable with this "He took our place" mentality.

Our Lord made a sacrifice which makes satisfaction for our sins.

 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Listening to a speaker they said

Christ died in our place on the cross. It should have been us dying on the cross for our sins

It made me think, would God have been satisfied if we had died on a cross, I think that he would still want more punishment then that as we would still be condemned eternally. What do others think we the statement
We would die on a cross thousands of times and spend 10 million years in hell, and it would just be a drop in the bucket in satisfying God's wrath for the sin in us.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I believe strongly in God's justice but I believe even more strongly in God's compassion. Even as a Christian, I find the concept of eternal punishment very problematic.
A judge having a murderer who has been found guilty, could have loads of compassion for the man, but the Judge is bound by the law and has to sentence him. We would think that a judge, who let the guy who killed 50 Muslims in Christchurch, go with just a slap on the wrist with the wet tram ticket just because the judge had compassion on him, as insulting the families of the victims because he is not giving appropriate justice to a mass murderer.

So God can have as much compassion on people as He wants, but man has rebelled against Him and broken His righteous and just laws, and therefore justice has to be done and the price paid. The Scripture says that the soul that sins must die. This is not only physical death, but also eternal separation from a holy God.

But God has shown great compassion in that He gave up His only Son to pay the price and be separated from Him and to suffer the full extent of His wrath against sin. Jesus paid that price, and there is a condition - we must received Christ as our Saviour and have faith in Him. This is not a universal salvation for every person. Those who reject Christ do not have a Saviour from the wrath of God for their sin. And even if they spent a whole eternity separated from God and heaven, it will not be enough to satisfy the wrath of God against their sin. There is only one way to be saved from eternal separation from God, and that is to receive Christ as Saviour.
 
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JackRT

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We would die on a cross thousands of times and spend 10 million years in hell, and it would just be a drop in the bucket in satisfying God's wrath for the sin in us.

I cannot worship a "God of wrath".
 
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SarahsKnight

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I believe strongly in God's justice but I believe even more strongly in God's compassion. Even as a Christian, I find the concept of eternal punishment very problematic.

It's problematic because it isn't nearly as Biblical as most Christians seem to want it to be. We really need to stop hand-waving away all other Scripture that almost could not more clearly speak of a literal death/destruction by fire on account of one verse in the gospels that use the words "eternal punishment", especially when even then it is contrasted with eternal life for the saved (and death is a punishment; there's no rule that says punishment must always entail conscious suffering, especially if that suffering is endless).
 
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I cannot worship a "God of wrath".
So, if some random murderer came along and killed all your family and relatives, and he got caught and was convicted of their murders, and the Judge said, "Oh, I'll let you go because I have compassion on you". How will you feel about that murderer and the judge who let him go?

Hey, if all else fails, just read the Bible. The wrath of God is not Him flying into uncontrollable rages just because someone decides to sin against him. God's anger and wrath is connected with His justice, and when someone deliberately rejects the greatest gift that He could give mankind, His only Son to suffer the worse torment He had or would ever have to suffer, so that those who receive Him would be saved, then He would exercise justice against that person.

What if you had an only son, who died, and his heart and lungs were donated to a person who needed them, and that person treated you like dirt and abused you, treated your name as a swear word, and told you that he was glad that the little bastard died so that he could live, wouldn't you be angry with him? Come on, be honest!
 
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SarahsKnight

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So, if some random murderer came along and killed all your family and relatives, and he got caught and was convicted of their murders, and the Judge said, "Oh, I'll let you go because I have compassion on you". How will you feel about that murderer and the judge who let him go?

Not that I am disagreeing there is a wrath of God against evil, but for me personally, I think having lost a loved one - not to mention my whole family - would be the much bigger disappointment and not that the murderer got away. His/her being punished would not bring back the people he killed. I doubt I would feel any less empty from this loss after seeing him executed. Or even vindicated.


and told you that he was glad that the little bastard died so that he could live, wouldn't you be angry with him? Come on, be honest!

That I would be angry with, I must say. And shame upon the atheist/unbeliever who expressed his disbelief in this harsh way to the God we believe in, if that is where you gathered this rhetorical question from. They are free to disbelieve, but insulting one's god to his face like that is a serious jerk move.
 
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St_Worm2

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Christ died in our place on the cross. It should have been us dying on the cross for our sins.
There are a number of verses in the Bible that seem to support this idea of the Lord as our substitute, that He died in our place and bore the punishment that we deserved for our sins. Here are a few of them that come to mind.

Isaiah 53
4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.

1 Peter 2
24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the Cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

--David

1 Peter 3
18 Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.
.
 
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worshipjunkie

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I get and agree that Christ was our substitute. But the question is, would it been enough if we had died on the cross? I don't think that would have been sufficient for God's wrath to have turned away.

No, it was the sinlessness of Christ and His Divine nature that made Him capable of taking on the punishment for sin and satisfying the Divine justice. Me, a sinful human being dying once for my offenses of an infinite nature against God; might as well throw a drop of water into a oil fire.
 
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