John MacArthur explains easy-believism, grace-only, etc.

BCsenior said:

C'mon, you have to read posts with understanding.

I said you're calling me a liar because I am testifying
that Johnny Mac trashes "grace-only"/"easy-believism"
on almost every page of his book (the one in the OP).
Clarification:
One who trashes the above is trashing OSAS!

And, if you believe the Bible is perfect ...
you must believe that a dead man (Judas)
walked over to a cliff and fell off to his death!
(Matthew versus Luke in Acts). Nice goin'.

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if John MacArthur is against Free Grace / Easy Believism.
There are other branches of Christianity that are against this and yet I am sure you do not agree with these other branches of Christianity.
For example: Catholics and Orthodox churches are against these things, but does that mean you agree with Catholic and Orthodox churches?

Do you believe that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved?
John MacArthur professed to believe that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved in the 1980's.
Is that consistent with your version of Conditional Salvation?

Also, nowhere did I call you a liar. Nowhere did I say that MacArthur was not against Easy Believism or Free Grace. What I said is that he believes in Once Saved Always Saved (Which is something he always professed), and that he believes in a sin and still be saved type belief to some small extent (because he says that a believer can commit suicide and be saved). This is not the same as Easy Believism or Free Grace. They are similar, but not the same. John believes a person has to generally live a holy life, but he believes also that one or two grievous sins will not separate a person from God (like with a believer committing suicide). Do you see where I am coming from?

BCsenior said:

I'm getting tired of his repeatedly long copy and pastes
without answering relevant questions about his doctrine.

Click to expand...

Exactly. I began finding that much of what I was writing was being completely ignored, as if my points, or your points, might not be valid. It is not my problem if someone doesn't believe me, for that isn't my job, but I'd much rather give my time to someone with open ears. So let us find solace in posts that went ignored....they must have been good and right. Try not to be discouraged; I feel that you've done a good job considering how this place "works".

Thess said:

Exactly. I began finding that much of what I was writing was being completely ignored, as if my points, or your points, might not be valid. It is not my problem if someone doesn't believe me, for that isn't my job, but I'd much rather give my time to someone with open ears. So let us find solace in posts that went ignored....they must have been good and right. Try not to be discouraged; I feel that you've done a good job considering how this place "works".

Click to expand...

What about my points? I said John MacArthur stated that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved. I said that suicide is self murder, and the Bible says that no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (See 1 John 3:15). Yet, this point went ignored. Anyways, the moment I said that I do not want to discuss things that do not relate to the Bible, you started to speak against me. I am not your enemy. I just believe the Bible is my sole authority, and I prefer to speak about topics that relate directly to the Bible. For the Christian faith is founded upon God's Word the Bible. It is how we have our faith. It is the very basis for our belief in Christ and for our conduct of how we are to live for the Lord. My point in coming on the forums is to be edified with God's Word and not by hearing about people's visions or experiences, etc. The Bible is my life line, my go to book to worship God and to love Him with everything that I am. I am not interested in hearing about people's experiences, revelations, or visions, or dreams anymore than I am interested in watching paint dry. For me, all I need is the Word of God. That is what I want. If we cannot talk Bible, I would prefer not to have any kind of discourse or conversation. For God's Word means everything to me.

I hope you understand;
And may God bless you this fine evening.

@Jason0047 Context matters when quoting Scripture. The entirety of 1 John 3:15 says: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Suicide isn't hating another brother. It's a self-inflicted killing.

Moreover, any sin (except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) can be forgiven if a person repents. If a murderer is sincerely repentant, their sin is no longer held against them. Otherwise the Biblical David would be in hell, a man after God's own heart.

As far as the original topic goes, this is a tough topic, but yes, there does need to be a degree of obedience and fruit after claimed salvation, and the Bible is clear on this. We all still sin, but we should be repentant when we do. A person who claims to be saved and continually engages in gross sin without any sign of changing or repenting can rightfully have their claimed salvation questioned. The Bible makes it clear that faith without works is dead. And there are many other pertinent passages that have already been quoted (not everyone who says Lord Lord etc.).

kdm1984 said:

@Jason0047 Context matters when quoting Scripture. The entirety of 1 John 3:15 says: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Click to expand...

No. John says that hate is the equivalent of murder in 1 John 3:15, just as Jesus says that lusting after a woman is the equivalent of adultery. Yes, murder and hate are two different kinds of sins, but they are related. That is what John is saying. Both murder and hate are grievous sins. For if a believer hates or murders, no eternal life abides in them, unless of course... they repent, i.e. seek forgiveness with the Lord (1 John 1:9, cf. 1 John 2:1).

Note: Repentance will lead one to bringing forth the proper fruits of repentance. If not, then it is just an empty profession of repeated lip service. There has to be an actual change in our lives that hates sin, and puts it away. if we are still serving grievous sin, then we are serving two masters; And Jesus says we cannot serve two masters. For we will hate the one and love the other.

You said:

Suicide isn't hating another brother. It's a self-inflicted killing.

Click to expand...

John says hating your brother is the same as murder. I believe him. Murdering or killing another human being is no different than murdering and killing yourself. It is self murder. Murderers do not have eternal life abiding in them according to 1 John 3:15.

You said:

Moreover, any sin (except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) can be forgiven if a person repents. If a murderer is sincerely repentant, their sin is no longer held against them. Otherwise the Biblical David would be in hell, a man after God's own heart.

Click to expand...

That's not true. There are other unforgivable sins besides speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost. You cannot repent of suicide if you remain dead. For it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this... the judgment. Also, Hebrews 6:4-6 deals with apostasy (Rejection of Christ or departing from the Living God - compare with: Hebrews 3:12-13).

As far as the original topic goes, this is a tough topic, but yes, there does need to be a degree of obedience and fruit after claimed salvation, and the Bible is clear on this. We all still sin, but we should be repentant when we do.

Click to expand...

I am sorry, it's more narrow than that. To say that we all still sin is to be in bed with the enemy. What sins do you exactly refer to? Lying? Lust? Bad words? Can we not overcome these sins? Does not the Bible warn against these sins?

You said:

A person who claims to be saved and continually engages in gross sin without any sign of changing or repenting can rightfully have their claimed salvation questioned. The Bible makes it clear that faith without works is dead. And there are many other pertinent passages that have already been quoted (not everyone who says Lord Lord etc.).

Click to expand...

I agree, but I believe the Bible teaches that it is more than this. One cannot justify even one or two grievous sins, and one cannot say they will always commit grievous sin (like lying, lusting, swearing, etc.) as if it was a normal way of life for the believer. We are supposed to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We have to overcome grievous sin in this life. For they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).

BCsenior said:

Welcome ... I enjoyed reading your post.
Please be aware that taking the mark of the beast
is an incredibly-unforgiveable sin!
See Revelation 13:7-17, 14:9-10, 20:4.
Comin' up shortly!

Click to expand...

Worshiping the beast is considered so bad of a sin to God that according to Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8, their names were not even written in the book of life since the foundation of the world. Meaning, these are the only individuals that Christ did not die on the cross for. Everyone else, the Lord Jesus Christ died for their sins so as to offer them the free gift of life (if they desire it). But these guys are so bad, so evil, so wicked in God's sight, they would not even have a chance at life because of what they would do in the future. God is sovereign over time, and He knew what they were going to do. But yes; Depending upon a person's certain actions, they can never have any kind of forgiveness by what they will do.

Thank you again, Mr. 0047, for your generously thorough replies.

Jason0047 said:

For those who serve in God’s Kingdom in the New Covenant by loving others is better than the greatest of the prophets such as John the Baptist. For John followed the Old Covenant ways. For John was the last of the Old Testament prophets.

Click to expand...

Nah, I'm going to have to totally disagree. John the Baptist was chosen by God to fulfill the purpose of harkening the savior's earthly life and ministry, and he did exactly what God had destined him to do. How was John the Baptist not loving others by preaching repentance and telling those with 2 tunics to give to those with none? Do you think John was not in the business of charity and that he was speaking hypocritically when he exhorted his listeners to be charitable?

Do you not believe that the prophets of old will be of the highest royalty in the eternal Kingdom of God? For they were given the unbelievable honor of speaking God's eternal word to His people. I certainly do believe they will be the greatest in the Kingdom. When asked by Peter what the destiny of Christ's closest earthly servants would be in the world to come, He replied:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus said that the Apostles would be given great thrones of judgement over God's chosen people. Jesus gives special mention of 3 people in this verse:

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Is Abraham going to be the least in the Kingdom or one of the greatest? I'd say the latter, personally.

Jason0047 said:

Notice here in this verse it does not actually say that this person who breaks the least of these commands (and teaches others to do so) is IN the kingdom of heaven. It merely says that they will be CALLED the least in the kingdom of heaven.

Click to expand...

Fair interpretation, but I must ask what business will it be for those of us living in the eternal Kingdom of God to be gossiping about the former existences of the damned outside of it?

May the Lord send His Angels to guide your steps on this fine day.