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grasping the after wind

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I completely disagree with your assessment. You should look up Pro-Life and Pro-Choice organizations and see what they do claim as their positions.

NARAL Pro-Choice America
Pro-Life Action League
Pro-Life Wisconsin

Because people trying to portray their personal causes in the best light by using euphemisms to deceptively make them look mot re benevolent than they actually are does not mean I am required to conform and play their silly little games. I prefer to tell the truth about what they are advocating and the truth is that their concerns are entirely about abortion unless the group wishing to be called a pro life org is as spending a good amount of time advocating for the end of the death penalty and war or the group wishing to be called a pro choice org is spending a good amount of time advocating for end of government regulation of speech, assembly, commerce etc.
 
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SkyWriting

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Because people trying to portray their personal causes in the best light by using euphemisms to deceptively make them look mot re benevolent than they actually are does not mean I am required to conform and play their silly little games. I prefer to tell the truth about what they are advocating and the truth is that their concerns are entirely about abortion unless the group wishing to be called a pro life org is as spending a good amount of time advocating for the end of the death penalty and war or the group wishing to be called a pro choice org is spending a good amount of time advocating for end of government regulation of speech, assembly, commerce etc.

I prefer you tell the truth as well.
 
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rjs330

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I'm a Pro-Choice person who actually did research on abortion procedures, including what procedures are appropriate during which time. I'm still Pro-Choice. It is a necessary to have these procedures available.

People who are swayed by the reality of the procedure never believed in a woman's right to choose in the first place. If they did, they would understand the right is the point, not the procedure.
But what about the rights of the child? A person does not have the right to kill their own child. Except for abortion of course. Then you do have the right to kill your own child. Weird .
 
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Archaeopteryx

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But what about the rights of the child? A person does not have the right to kill their own child. Except for abortion of course. Then you do have the right to kill your own child. Weird .
I've noticed a tendency among some individuals identifying as "pro-life" to the use of rather ambiguous terminology when it comes to this particular issue. Is an embryo a "child"?
 
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rjs330

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If the "shedding of innocent blood" is what's really taking place
with abortion, why wouldn't He take action? To not do so would,
indeed, be enabling if that's really the case.

Same reason he doesn't prevent murder. Sure he could. He could just throw down lightening bolts on everyone that sins. But then we'd have no one left on the planet is short order. That would probably be the best preventative. If God just outright killed any provider or woman who tried it herself then we'd probably have a lot fewer abortions.
 
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rjs330

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Well that's the question isn't it: Why doesn't your god do anything? You've just provided a list of options. Why doesn't he pick one?

God says don't murder. I guess he could prevent that too. Oh and he says don't steal or lie too. He also says that you should love him as well. Oh and love your neighbor as yourself. He says, don't gossip, be a glutton. He says sex outside of marriage is sin, and homosexual sin too. He says that we shouldn't cause others to sin either. Boy if he just prevented all of that then it would be great! I guess the question is would you rather be a robot with no life to choose? No decisions to make? Or would you rather have choices and decisions?
Or perhaps it's better to have a life where you can make choices AND be able to also choose the consequences of those choices as well. That way you could do anything you want to and actually never have to suffer any negative consequences.

I'm not sure, but I don't know how satisfied any of us would be if God prevented all of us from ever doing anything wrong.
 
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Tinker Grey

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I'm not sure, but I don't know how satisfied any of us would be if God prevented all of us from ever doing anything wrong.
For a little less wrong, we could be more satisfied than this. Too, I might just believe in a god that intervened to prevent a child from running out in traffic.
You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, ‘When you’re done, I’m going to punish you.' If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.

- Tracie Harris
 
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Archaeopteryx

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God says don't murder. I guess he could prevent that too. Oh and he says don't steal or lie too. He also says that you should love him as well. Oh and love your neighbor as yourself. He says, don't gossip, be a glutton. He says sex outside of marriage is sin, and homosexual sin too. He says that we shouldn't cause others to sin either. Boy if he just prevented all of that then it would be great! I guess the question is would you rather be a robot with no life to choose? No decisions to make? Or would you rather have choices and decisions?
Or perhaps it's better to have a life where you can make choices AND be able to also choose the consequences of those choices as well. That way you could do anything you want to and actually never have to suffer any negative consequences.

I'm not sure, but I don't know how satisfied any of us would be if God prevented all of us from ever doing anything wrong.
Perhaps we would be as satisfied as when someone steps in to prevent a crime from taking place?
 
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rjs330

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Perhaps we would be as satisfied as when someone steps in to prevent a crime from taking place?

Yes and that is called freedom of choice. We don't HAVE to prevent a crime. We can choose not to get involved. Just as the person could choose not to commit the crime in the first place. Life is ALL about choices. If God were to intervene in all of our choices that would cause suffering in us or others we would be nothing but robots. If God forced us to take certain actions then we would be nothing but slaves.

I don't believe any of us want to be robots or slaves. We have freedom to choose all the way up to death.
 
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rjs330

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I've noticed a tendency among some individuals identifying as "pro-life" to the use of rather ambiguous terminology when it comes to this particular issue. Is an embryo a "child"?

It is a human being and as such should be afforded the rights of a human being.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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God says don't murder. I guess he could prevent that too. Oh and he says don't steal or lie too. He also says that you should love him as well. Oh and love your neighbor as yourself. He says, don't gossip, be a glutton. He says sex outside of marriage is sin, and homosexual sin too. He says that we shouldn't cause others to sin either. Boy if he just prevented all of that then it would be great! I guess the question is would you rather be a robot with no life to choose? No decisions to make? Or would you rather have choices and decisions?
Or perhaps it's better to have a life where you can make choices AND be able to also choose the consequences of those choices as well. That way you could do anything you want to and actually never have to suffer any negative consequences.

I'm not sure, but I don't know how satisfied any of us would be if God prevented all of us from ever doing anything wrong.
Because God gave US dominion and authority. He told US what to do. We are not obeying Him or this world would look much different.
 
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PreviouslySeeking...

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But what about the rights of the child? A person does not have the right to kill their own child. Except for abortion of course. Then you do have the right to kill your own child. Weird .

The non viable "child" residing in utero has no rights. Zero, none. That "child" is not a legal person. What is happening in an abortion is that the tissue is removed from the uterus and the "child" dies in the process.

When people act as if the location of a gestating fetus is beside the point, they lose a huge chunk of their audience. My uterus isn't an incubator, it is part of my body. Nothing can lay a more primary claim to a part of my body than me.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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It is a human being and as such should be afforded the rights of a human being.
Again, that's some rather ambiguous terminology. What do you mean, a "human being"? Do you mean that it is a member of Homo sapiens? Do you mean that it is a person? Do you mean something else altogether?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Yes and that is called freedom of choice. We don't HAVE to prevent a crime. We can choose not to get involved. Just as the person could choose not to commit the crime in the first place. Life is ALL about choices. If God were to intervene in all of our choices that would cause suffering in us or others we would be nothing but robots. If God forced us to take certain actions then we would be nothing but slaves.

I don't believe any of us want to be robots or slaves. We have freedom to choose all the way up to death.
I think you may be missing the point here. When someone chooses not to get involved, even though it easily within their power to do so, we hold them morally accountable—we recognise that they should have intervened to stop the crime from taking place, and we consider it wrong that they did not intervene when they could have.
 
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