Is it impossible to lose your salvation?

Gods not mad

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We have already established that I am guilty of unrepentant mortal sin. Now what does that have to do with the warnings in the new testament against falling away? How does my personal condition affect what it says?

your point is falling away through intentional sin one can not return. my point is intentional sin is not a disqualifier. you seem to be fine with the fact that your theology has condemned you i dont believe that is the case. im only basing these replies on your own words here.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I do believe it is impossible to lose your salvation. In fact, we read in Revelation that the names written in the book of life were written before the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). Those written to be saved will be saved, and those not found therein will not be saved.

You are aware names can be stricken from the book of life...right?

And another little tid bit we may have overlooked, for all we know, all OSASr's were never written in the book because they taught others they didn't need to be concerned sin would rob then of their salvation, that is unless they repented. I mean it was after all, you that stated those not found therein will not be saved.

It's as if you are saying just because you believe you can never lose salvation, you are written in the book? What if they were never saved to begin with like some are so fond of saying?
 
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Cement

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I sincerely hope not but im going to be honest with you and say that I dont know. I have recently fallen back into an old sin and feel horrible and I believe that the Lord may have left certain things vague for our own good.
 
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That's an old trick people play on themselves and sometimes on others, and just an excuse to be lazy/do nothing, to fool yourself into believing we can sin all we like because it's more fun than Gods way, and we can still go to heaven that way, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Agreed.

Galatians 5:13
"You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh rather, serve one another humbly in love."
 
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Kenny'sID

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Agreed.

Galatians 5:13
"You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh rather, serve one another humbly in love."

Thanks, I'll add that to my list of scripture for this subject.
 
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Gods not mad

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That's an old trick people play on themselves and sometimes on others, and just an excuse to be lazy/do nothing, to fool yourself into believing we can sin all we like because it's more fun than Gods way, and we can still go to heaven that way, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Here is how that works. You name all these sins that in the first place, even God doesn't expect us to adhere to perfectly, the very reason he sent Christ to die. Thing is, you know that, but neglect to make it part of the equation, you devised it with a half truth because if you followed the whole truth...the full equation, of try your best then asking forgiveness when you ere...you'd then have to admit that doing as good as God expects us to do, is actually very doable, not impossible like you make it seem by leaving part of the plan out...the forgiveness factor.

Did you really forget there was a reason Jesus died? It's for one, when we ask forgiveness as he told us to do in the lords Prayer we don't have to worry when we occasionally mess up, and that way, we can do our best to be good...all God really asks of us,

what?
knock it off.
who said anything about being lazy for the Lords business. have you not read any of my posts in this thread i am well aware of my sin and do not relish in it but my trust is in the finished work on the cross and that alone. i can do nothing to save myself the work has already been done so in attempting to i dishonor the finished work.

i name sins because i want to see if people will even admit they do sin.

i know God knows we cant adhere perfectly and thats why he sent his son kinda my point.

i think i am making his grace part of the equation i seem to be making it the whole equation.

my trying my best would be a work i instead choose to believe that i am who Christ said i am and in doing so walk as a son. his grace then gives me the strength to not sin as much as i did when i added works to the equation. i can do nothing outside of him nothing not even try not to sin. when i put full trust in his sacrifice and add nothing is when God shows up to overcome bondage because i can overcome nothing. so why even try its Jesus bondage not mine im the righteousness of Christ. in doing this bondages fall off. praise God.

im not leaving out the forgiveness factor once again the whole point. praise God.

i did not forget there was a reason Jesus died. i love acknowledging my sin before the Lord or confessing but he has already forgiven me i will walk as a son. when i do he lovingly corrects but im not in jeopardy of loosing my sonship.

we can do our best thats all he really asks of us. i thought all he really asked of us was to believe on his son and have faith in him not do our best. you will do ''your best'' when Christ is fully in control of your life and not partially by you trying to add works.
 
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Jonaitis

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You are aware names can be stricken from the book of life...right?

And another little tid bit we may have overlooked, for all we know, all OSASr's were never written in the book because they taught others they didn't need to be concerned sin would rob then of their salvation, that is unless they repented. I mean it was after all, you that stated those not found therein will not be saved.

It's as if you are saying just because you believe you can never lose salvation, you are written in the book? What if they were never saved to begin with like some are so fond of saying?

Salvation doesn't only consist of justification, that's where you fall short of understanding. Our predestination and election, calling and regeneration, justification and adoption, sanctification and mortification, glorification and completion of our redemption are all included in it. To say that believers can be justified but not sanctified, to be adopted but not persevere in the faith and in good works, is to call salvation an imperfect work. We must work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but even this is done by God in us to work and to will for his good pleasure. If you have been called and justified, God will carry on the work of perfecting you in holiness and all righteousness. He doesn't leave you to do the rest alone after you have been born again, his work carries throughout the Christian's life.

Yes, there are warning from God about endurance. Yes, they are meant to deter the believer from sin, but they are also indicators of who really is in the faith. However, those who are sensitive to such warnings will in effect, one way or another, immediately or some time later, heed such warnings that they will not remain in their sins. If we refuse to listen, God will chastise us and restore us to himself through the uses of disciplinary measures. His fatherly care for his children will be evident in their own lives, but most of all in their repentance. If they aren't, they prove themselves illegitimate children of God as the writer of Hebrews says.

It irritates me to hear people claim that OSAS teach that you can be lax about your obedience, when it is actually the opposite. Once saved always saved can actually be a fearful doctrine in my personal opinion, since it means that unless you bear fruit in keeping with repentance and continue in the faith, you were a liar to begin with. If that doesn't put fear in you to prove your election sure, then I would be concerned if you are even in the faith.
 
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Kenny'sID

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what?
knock it off.
who said anything about being lazy for the Lords business. have you not read any of my posts in this thread i am well aware of my sin and do not relish in it but my trust is in the finished work on the cross and that alone. i can do nothing to save myself the work has already been done so in attempting to i dishonor the finished work.

i name sins because i want to see if people will even admit they do sin.

i know God knows we cant adhere perfectly and thats why he sent his son kinda my point.

i think i am making his grace part of the equation i seem to be making it the whole equation.

my trying my best would be a work i instead choose to believe that i am who Christ said i am and in doing so walk as a son. his grace then gives me the strength to not sin as much as i did when i added works to the equation. i can do nothing outside of him nothing not even try not to sin. when i put full trust in his sacrifice and add nothing is when God shows up to overcome bondage because i can overcome nothing. so why even try its Jesus bondage not mine im the righteousness of Christ. in doing this bondages fall off. praise God.

im not leaving out the forgiveness factor once again the whole point. praise God.

i did not forget there was a reason Jesus died. i love acknowledging my sin before the Lord or confessing but he has already forgiven me i will walk as a son. when i do he lovingly corrects but im not in jeopardy of loosing my sonship.

we can do our best thats all he really asks of us. i thought all he really asked of us was to believe on his son and have faith in him not do our best. you will do ''your best'' when Christ is fully in control of your life and not partially by you trying to add works.

Nothing has changed with my thoughts on what you were doing there.

Is it a requirement to do good in order to get to heaven, or is faith enough? Or are there any conditions to make it to heaven aside from our faith?
 
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HTacianas

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your point is falling away through intentional sin one can not return. my point is intentional sin is not a disqualifier. you seem to be fine with the fact that your theology has condemned you i dont believe that is the case. im only basing these replies on your own words here.

I base my theology on the bible, the traditions of the Church, and Church history.

You seem to be basing yours on the condition of an individual you are having a discussion with on the internet.
 
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mister rogers

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Those who think they can reach (have reached) sinless perfection, have they really come to know Jesus as their Savior? On the other hand, those who think they can sin all they want, have they really accepted Jesus as their Lord?
 
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...of course we can lose salvation. Following is a verse they I've been using lately to prove it. But before I post it, there are those that see the simple scripture there as something else and it doesn't prove we can lose salvation...I can point you to some of their posts if you like, they go completely delusional and any really good argument you put in front of them, they find a way to convince themselves not to understand it. My point PLEASE, do not get caught up in that, I've seen what it does to people because they want to believe the easy way so badly they really do go wonky. It's actually a bit scary to watch them.

James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
Thanks for the input man I appreciate it. Good verse by the way and it is true I find myself dealing rather with emotional people rather than logical discussions when I encounter the OSAS believers. It’s like it’s offensive to question what they believe. But even the Berreans checked what Paul said with scripture. If people won’t even acknowledge scripture what else is left?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Salvation doesn't only consist of justification, that's where you fall short of understanding. Our predestination and election, calling and regeneration, justification and adoption, sanctification and mortification, glorification and completion of our redemption are all included in it. To say that believers can be justified but not sanctified, to be adopted but not persevere in the faith and in good works, is to call salvation an imperfect work. We must work out our salvation with fear and trembling, but even this is done by God in us to work and to will for his good pleasure. If you have been called and justified, God will carry on the work of perfecting you in holiness and all righteousness. He doesn't leave you to do the rest alone after you have been born again, his work carries throughout the Christian's life.

Yes, there are warning from God about endurance. Yes, they are meant to deter the believer from sin, but they are also indicators of who really is in the faith. However, those who are sensitive to such warnings will in effect, one way or another, immediately or some time later, heed such warnings that they will not remain in their sins. If we refuse to listen, God will chastise us and restore us to himself through the uses of disciplinary measures. His fatherly care for his children will be evident in their own lives, but most of all in their repentance. If they aren't, they prove themselves illegitimate children of God as the writer of Hebrews says.

It irritates me to hear people claim that OSAS teach that you can be lax about your obedience, when it is actually the opposite. Once saved always saved can actually be a fearful doctrine in my personal opinion, since it means that unless you bear fruit in keeping with repentance and continue in the faith, you were a liar to begin with. If that doesn't put fear in you to prove your election sure, then I would be concerned if you are even in the faith.

I'm afraid you have bought into something that I don't buy at all. Another complicated doctrine designed to drag the poor sincere souls who seek the truth into yet another unbiblical direction, darn near making it impossible for them to know what to think.

It's a wonder people even tolerate Christianity anymore, as wishy washy as it is..

And Glad I go in before people started teaching all this false doctrine.
 
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Gods not mad

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You are aware names can be stricken from the book of life...right?

And another little tid bit we may have overlooked, for all we know, all OSASr's were never written in the book because they taught others they didn't need to be concerned sin would rob then of their salvation, that is unless they repented. I mean it was after all, you that stated those not found therein will not be saved.

It's as if you are saying just because you believe you can never lose salvation, you are written in the book? What if they were never saved to begin with like some are so fond of saying?


you should study the book of life and the lambs book of life. start here revelations 3:5 and how do we overcome by works no by faith receiving his grace. how are you clothed in white with no blemish by trying really hard no by faith in his grace. you really think God will accept that your good works. that is a slap in the face to the one who paid the price and overcame the law so we would be found righteous. Christ and him alone nothing added to it.

lambs book of life.
revelations 13:8 sounds like the one who is the beginning and the end who was is and is to come knew who would accept his son by faith and who would not. notice works was not a requirement.

i'll say this if you try to add works to salvation and are born again you are born again. God loves you as much as any of his children. heaven is your destination its just that that mentality of works will hinder your walk greatly.
 
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Gods not mad

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Nothing has changed with my thoughts on what you were doing there.

Is it a requirement to do good in order to get to heaven, or is faith enough? Or are there any conditions to make it to heaven aside from our faith?

are you serious ya faith is enough and in that faith Christ does the work in the believer not us by our attempts to make ourselves righteous. wow. goodnight brother.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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That's an old trick people play on themselves and sometimes on others, and just an excuse to be lazy/do nothing, to fool yourself into believing we can sin all we like because it's more fun than Gods way, and we can still go to heaven that way, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Here is how that works. You name all these sins that in the first place, even God doesn't expect us to adhere to perfectly, the very reason he sent Christ to die. Thing is, you know that, but neglect to make it part of the equation, you devised it with a half truth because if you followed the whole truth...the full equation, of try your best then asking forgiveness when you ere...you'd then have to admit that doing as good as God expects us to do, is actually very doable, not impossible like you make it seem by leaving part of the plan out...the forgiveness factor.

Did you really forget there was a reason Jesus died? It's for one, when we ask forgiveness as he told us to do in the lords Prayer we don't have to worry when we occasionally mess up, and that way, we can do our best to be good...all God really asks of us,
Amen thanks for the input. I read that post you responded to and pretty much felt it pointless to respond but you did a terrific job.
 
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ok thanks for the clarification. also thanks for the honesty sorry to hear about the desire to sacrifice to satan i pray God deliver you from that bondage.



i assume that you have not willfully committed any of the sins below and are walking perfectly in the law of God. its not hard if you teach others and portray yourself as one who does not transgresses against Gods law intentionally then these 17 questions should be a breeze for you to answer.



remember what you said here? you said it. so i am curious if the answer to any of my questions is yes. you being a studious well refined man of the word who has studied and is very accomplished should know what and what is not considered a transgression of Gods law. if you have intentionally committed a sin then you are condemned by your own words.

here they are again lets see if you can be honest before the holy spirit and answer them this time.

1 when is the last time you watched inappropriate content?
2 when is the last time you lusted after a women?
3 when was the last time you have had fear and did not trust God to provide?
4 when was the last time you became angry with someone and wished harm or even death on them?
5 when was the last time you did not appreciate Gods hand in your life and complained against him?
6 when was the last time you put something before God and made Him second an idol lets say?
7 when was the last time you stole time from your employer?
8 have you gossiped about another in any way recently?
9 when was the last time you were not satisfied with what God has given you?
10 when was the last time you did not love another as Christ has loved you?
11 do you have the perfect SINLESS mind of Christ right now?
12 when is the last time you committed a sin and did not catch it or repent?
13 when was the last time you had an arrogant look
14 if you died after not perfectly repenting according to the "law" would you then have gone to hell?

15 how is salvation exactly lost then, your thoughts?
16 how do you personally repent?
17 what do you do to make things right with God in your theology if you perhaps sinned at some point and forgot?

17 questions if you can answer these perfectly i will consider that perhaps a man trying to accomplish the law by his own good works is something to look into. but for now i'll stick with the fact that i dont have the ability to save myself nor do i have a fully new mind or body and still will sin. how about lets start a conversation around your answers to these 17 questions.

be blessed
Dude wanting to obey God doesn’t somehow mean you think you’re perfectly following the law, it just means you try your best not to sin, ask for forgiveness when you do, and move forward. Why is this so hard I don’t see it needing 5 pages of a response to find a way around being obedient to God.
 
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Gods not mad

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I base my theology on the bible, the traditions of the Church, and Church history.

You seem to be basing yours on the condition of an individual you are having a discussion with on the internet.

nope going off the word of God here. have a great night.
 
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Jonaitis

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I'm afraid you have bought into something that I don't buy at all. Another complicated doctrine designed to drag the poor sincere souls who seek the truth into yet another unbiblical direction, darn near making it impossible for them to know what to think.

It's a wonder people even tolerate Christianity anymore, as wishy washy as it is..

And Glad I go in before people started teaching all this false doctrine.

Why do you want to live in constant fear that unless you remain obedient that God will reject you? If he drew you to himself by his marvelous grace out of darkness into his light, why would you desire that God doesn't continue with you throughout your journey? If you fall into sin, even gross sin, God will brings you back to himself through disciplinary measures. He will not forsake you, he will not leave you, even if you thought you drifted so far from him. He can remove your assurance as a measure of discipline, but his love and salvation will not stop there. He will have his way with you, and he will carry you to his kingdom safely.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Thanks for the input man I appreciate it. Good verse by the way and it is true I find myself dealing rather with emotional people rather than logical discussions when I encounter the OSAS believers. It’s like it’s offensive to question what they believe. But even the Berreans checked what Paul said with scripture. If people won’t even acknowledge scripture what else is left?


Agree.

You're more than welcome, as a matter of fact it's the sincere folks like yourself that many of us are trying to watch out for as we scan the boards, and the reason we fight false doctrine.

I have a feeling you'll be just fine, and if there is anything I can help you with, just ask.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Why do you want to live in constant fear that unless you remain obedient that God will reject you? If he drew you to himself by his marvelous grace out of darkness into his light, why would you desire that God doesn't continue with you throughout your journey? If you fall into sin, even gross sin, God will brings you back to himself through disciplinary measures. He will not forsake you, he will not leave you, even if you thought you drifted so far from him. He can remove your assurance as a measure of discipline, but his love and salvation will not stop there. He will have his way with you, and he will carry you to his kingdom safely.


You really don't get it, why woiuld you think it's my choice, God writes the rules, and actually, I don't think I'm the one who should be living in fear? See God even tells us to fear him yet you are trying got teach me some fluffy something or another that just doesn't fit with the bible.

And what's worse, I only read the first sentence of your post. lol
 
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