Argument for God's existence.
- Thread starter createdtoworship
- Start date
- Mar 13, 2004
- 18,941
- 1,758
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Can you prove anything? Even basic scientific facts? Beyond a shadow of a doubt? I am not talking mathematical proofs, I am simply asking for something to be considered true. Something that is absolutely true. You can't. How then is it not faith? For now I am done with this conversation as you deny you live by faith, and this reveals you are not open minded to change. So I will let you know if I do another thread. But thank you for the debate, and I appreciate your willingness to post on this topic.
Upvote
0
HitchSlap
PROUDLY PRIMATE
Why do you maintain ignorance when there are many trying to help you out here?
faith
/fāTH/
noun
complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
"this restores one's faith in politicians"
synonyms: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; More
- strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
synonyms: religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, religious persuasion, religious belief, belief, code of belief, ideology, creed, teaching, dogma, doctrine
"she gave her life for her faith"
Upvote
0
gaara4158
Gen Alpha Dad
- Aug 18, 2007
- 6,437
- 2,685
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Humanist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
I refuse to let you equivocate your religious faith with the common “faith” we put in the reliability of our everyday tools, and that puts you off-script, so of course you’re done with me. Good game.
If you find yourself willing to actually engage the issues at hand and answer my questions rather than dancing around trying to get me to say the things your apologist gurus say I will, I’ll be here. Until then, you’ve failed to defend your belief in God.
Upvote
0
- Mar 13, 2004
- 18,941
- 1,758
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
I apologize gaara, I am not reading any more of your posts in this thread. I will let you know if I open a different thread. Thank you for your cooperation in this thread, and thank you for remaining civil and calm and not resorting to ad hominem attack. For this reason I look forward to debating with you in the future. If for some reason you do not wish to debate with me any more, feel free to message me, and I will honor your request. For the most part I feel that our conversations have been productive, so I thank you again.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Mar 13, 2004
- 18,941
- 1,758
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
glad to hear it. I am glad we can find mutual benefit. In this way coming to a christian forum has had a positive affect in your life. That is all I can ask. I know you meant that as an insult. But I didn't take it as one. I hope you don't mind. Also, I will monitor your posts, but there is a very good chance I won't be replying to any more of your posts. You have a tendency to insult when on the losing side, so I will politely bow out. So please don't be offended by my non answers.
Upvote
0
I think all the non believers who read this thread will see it for what it is. Although if anyone does convert to Christianity because of it, I’d love to talk to them...
Upvote
0
- Mar 13, 2004
- 18,941
- 1,758
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
so again it boils down to a universe that created itself, a multiverse that created itself, or God creating the universe.
When it comes to the origin of life there are only 2 possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago. So that gets rid of premise 1. Even if the universe was created by a multiverse, there has been no evidence of a multiverse as it is fairly theoretical in nearly any scientific journal. Even if a multiverse existed outside of time or causeless, that denies basic rules of cause and effect. I have shown that space time exists in all of the universe, so the burden of proof lies on the atheist to both prove the existence of the multiverse, and secondly to prove the existence of a causeless, timeless multiverse. So that gets rid of premise 2b. In conclusion, that leads us to only one other possibility, that of supernatural creation. God by very definition would be omnipresent and outside of time (and thus would not have a beginning). As of right now that is the only logical possibility that would not be theoretical.
In conclusion there is no reason why anything exists, no purpose for the atheist's viewpoint here. This is a very weak stance to have no motive for reality in general, no cause. This begs the question as to the origin of the multiverse. Where did it come from and more importantly why does it exist? IF it is a chance possibility of existence, why is there a chance at all? The fact that their is intelligence in the universe requires that the multiverse have intelligence to be able to submit to the new creation of a universe. And the atheist is forced to believe in an intelligent cause that itself is uncaused. By faith. As I have proven, no fact can be publically proven. Even basic facts. So both parties believe in an intelligent uncaused agent by faith. Until some of these questions are answered, and until some of the atheists recognize this as true faith, I feel we have exhausted this debate. Thank you for everyone involved.
When it comes to the origin of life there are only 2 possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago. So that gets rid of premise 1. Even if the universe was created by a multiverse, there has been no evidence of a multiverse as it is fairly theoretical in nearly any scientific journal. Even if a multiverse existed outside of time or causeless, that denies basic rules of cause and effect. I have shown that space time exists in all of the universe, so the burden of proof lies on the atheist to both prove the existence of the multiverse, and secondly to prove the existence of a causeless, timeless multiverse. So that gets rid of premise 2b. In conclusion, that leads us to only one other possibility, that of supernatural creation. God by very definition would be omnipresent and outside of time (and thus would not have a beginning). As of right now that is the only logical possibility that would not be theoretical.
In conclusion there is no reason why anything exists, no purpose for the atheist's viewpoint here. This is a very weak stance to have no motive for reality in general, no cause. This begs the question as to the origin of the multiverse. Where did it come from and more importantly why does it exist? IF it is a chance possibility of existence, why is there a chance at all? The fact that their is intelligence in the universe requires that the multiverse have intelligence to be able to submit to the new creation of a universe. And the atheist is forced to believe in an intelligent cause that itself is uncaused. By faith. As I have proven, no fact can be publically proven. Even basic facts. So both parties believe in an intelligent uncaused agent by faith. Until some of these questions are answered, and until some of the atheists recognize this as true faith, I feel we have exhausted this debate. Thank you for everyone involved.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
I think the reason the “debate” is exhausted is because you don’t seem to understand what we’re saying when we point out all the flaws in your argument...
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Mar 13, 2004
- 18,941
- 1,758
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
there is no evidence for a multiverse, and their definitely is no evidence for a causeless, timeless multiverse that denies causation. It is your side of the argument that is exhausted. Not mine.
Upvote
0
I don't need evidence for a multiverse, because I'm not making a positive statement about whether it exists or not. If you're making a positive statement like "A god had to have created the universe", then the burden of proof is on you to disprove all other possibilities.
You also have to show why it's not special pleading to insist that a god "outside of time" can exist and create universes with no material cause, but not some natural, non-god force (multiverse or whatever) that creates universes without an efficient cause.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Mar 13, 2004
- 18,941
- 1,758
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
God by definition is everywhere at once. Christian theologians call this the omnipresence of God. Logically if a God existed that created time He would naturally have to supercede it. Naturally if there is intelligence, logic, love, self sacrifice, and any other positive character trait in the universe God would have to be the supreme example of all of those things, if not the source of them. So far my evidences are based in the fact that there is no alternative to theism, that is evident. The alternatives have n evidence however, as they are only theoretical. So if you came to me saying the universe was created by a gelly monster. I would say, no, a monster is not what we see in the universe. We see logic, love, faithfulness, mercy. So whatever God there is, must be merciful, kind, forgiving, etc. But also must be judicial. Just, and legal. As those are positive character traits. Our God that we have evidence of ( due to no plausible alternatives, see first few pages of this thread for that dialogue), and due to the fact that every effect had a cause (per the logic of cause and effect), we know that the universe must be caused. if it was caused by a multiverse, then that too (because it is an effect), must have a cause. God is not an effect. See the creator is not a multiverse which has no personality, no love, no wisdom, intelligence, or mercy. As we see those positive character traits in the universe. So the creator must have those traits, and I don't see that in a multiverse. How can parallel universes have love? I sense meteors, galaxies, and asteroids maybe but not love, and logic. The fact that we are here pondering our origins philosophically proves that logic exists. And logic must have a cause. I don't see an asteroid, a black hole, a galaxy, causing logic. So again, God really is the only option here. He is the only thing on the universe that is not an effect, and thus needs no cause.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Similar threads
