Is it impossible to lose your salvation?

Michael Collum said:

My main concern when I read salvation threads is the focus on works, wondering if faith ever happened at all. Just saying.

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The doctrine of losing salvation stems from unbelief in the gospel

Michael Collum said:

One string of passages implies they were never born again to begin with.

Another string implies a transformation occurred, but now they are worse off than before they knew the gospel.

Yet another string .. that thought is gone and replaced with the floating thought about crucifying christ afresh.

oh yeah ... the other thought through scripture was some went astray as a test for the true believers.

However, it is also written "God knows those who are His" and "Who are you to judge another man's servant?"

those are the passages that come to mind.

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Notice the writer says "we":

Heb 10:26 - For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 - but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

That is what the new testament says about those who sin wilfully. It's fairly straightforward.

God doesn't save you one day and tell you to get lost the next. He Himself said "I will never leave you nor forsake you."

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Acts 13
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

HTacianas said:

Notice the writer says "we":

Heb 10:26 - For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 - but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

That is what the new testament says about those who sin wilfully. It's fairly straightforward.

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That falls under the saved as through fire bit, it even says in the revelation letters those who overcome will not be hurt by the second death .. those who don't ... will suffer damage.

Michael Collum said:

That falls under the saved as through fire bit, it even says in the revelation letters those who overcome will not be hurt by the second death .. those who don't ... will suffer damage.

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They will suffer some damage as if they are God's adversaries? What damage will the adversaries of God suffer?

MDC said:

The doctrine of losing salvation stems from unbelief in the gospel

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I find it stems from believing in written words over the reliability of Jesus Christ. Good news is like a good joke, you know it when you hear it.

HTacianas said:

They will suffer some damage as if they are God's adversaries? What damage will the adversaries of God suffer?

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The adversary of God is sin, the Romans 7 phenomena. The consuming fire of God torches everything not fit for life in the kingdom of God, and what remains continues. It even says that judgment begins with the house of God in one of the peter letters, meaning the lake of fire that is God's consuming fire, His love is already consuming sin within us right now, all who have been born again. Only God knows where people are, and what the outcome will be.

I'm not very good at writing explanations for my view. But this is a good explanation:

“For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” (Heb. 10:26).
Hebrews 10:26–27 (ESV)

This is what the author of Hebrews tells us in today’s passage. Again we come to a solemn warning for the covenant community about the need for perseverance. If members of this community do not move away from sin, they will fall away and have an expectation of judgment and not the promises of God (vv. 26–27).

What exactly is in view here? John Calvin and John Owen both agree that the sin the author has in mind primarily is the complete and final renunciation of the faith after being enlightened to it. This is not to say that the elect can lose their salvation. As we saw when we studied Hebrews 6, it is possible to come to a knowledge of Christ apart from faith. Those who commit a final denial of Christ are of the group that had never really placed their faith in Him to begin with.

The emphasis on deliberate, or final, denial is important because, as the life of the disciple Peter demonstrates, true believers may temporarily deny Christ and still be restored. Owen points out that final denial is done “obstinately, maliciously, from choice, without compulsion or fear … and not when taken by surprise or falling through a sudden temptation, as when Peter denied Christ.” Final apostasy is not a sudden event but results from unrepentant indulgence in sin.

Again we note that the author of Hebrews, like every other believer, can only be sure of his own salvation. Therefore he must cast this warning in general terms. True believers will take it to heart and repent, turning from persistent sins that would otherwise lead them into final apostasy. But those without true faith will persist in unrepentant sin to their own condemnation.
Ligonier Ministries

Michael Collum said:

The adversary of God is sin, the Romans 7 phenomena. The consuming fire of God torches everything not fit for life in the kingdom of God, and what remains continues. It even says that judgment begins with the house of God in one of the peter letters, meaning the lake of fire that is God's consuming fire, His love is already consuming sin within us right now, all who have been born again. Only God knows where people are, and what the outcome will be.

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So all that business about willful sin and Judgement and fire consuming adversaries was written to a group of Christians for what?

HTacianas said:

So all that business about willful sin and Judgement and fire consuming adversaries was written to a group of Christians for what?

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2 Timothy 3:16-17

HTacianas said:

So all that business about willful sin and Judgement and fire consuming adversaries was written to a group of Christians for what?

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In general, other than the first scripture that first came to mind in the other post, I'd say correction is compassionate. Even God says, I love as much as I rebuke, and also it is written elsewhere if God does not chastize us we are bastards and not sons.

since our flesh is at enmity with God and we live in this body til we die .. of course God is going to respond strongly if we're going in the wrong direction.

Michael Collum said:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

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You're losing me here. It's supposed to be for teaching, reproof, etc., by directly making a statement in clear and plain language that doesn't mean what it says?

HTacianas said:

You're losing me here. It's supposed to be for teaching, reproof, etc., by directly making a statement in clear and plain language that doesn't mean what it says?

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It totally means what it says in the context that all other apostolic teachings in the same canon are in agreement with it.

HTacianas said:

I don't try to convince myself of the once saved always saved doctrine because it isn't true. The new testament is filled with warnings against falling away. Going solely by the new testament once a person falls away through intentional sin or apostasy that person cannot return.

I cannot comment on someone else's experience with death.

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1 when is the last time you watched inappropriate content?
2 when is the last time you lusted after a women?
3 when was the last time you have had fear and did not trust God to provide?
4 when was the last time you became angry with someone and wished harm or even death on them?
5 when was the last time you did not appreciate Gods hand in your life and complained against him?
6 when was the last time you put something before God and made Him second an idol lets say?
7 when was the last time you stole time from your employer?
8 have you gossiped about another in any way recently?
9 when was the last time you were not satisfied with what God has given you?
10 when was the last time you did not love another as Christ has loved you?
11 do you have the perfect SINLESS mind of Christ right now?
12 when is the last time you committed a sin and did not catch it or repent?
13 when was the last time you had an arrogant look
14 if you died after not perfectly repenting according to the "law" would you then have gone to hell?

15 how is salvation exactly lost then, your thoughts?
16 how do you personally repent?
17 what do you do to make things right with God in your theology if you perhaps sinned at some point and forgot?

17 questions if you can answer these perfectly i will consider that perhaps a man trying to accomplish the law by his own good works is something to look into. but for now i'll stick with the fact that i dont have the ability to save myself nor do i have a fully new mind or body and still will sin. how about lets start a conversation around your answers to these 17 questions.

be blessed

Michael Collum said:

It totally means what it says in the context that all other apostolic teachings in the same canon are in agreement with it.

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You mean like these:

Rom 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

1Jo 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which doesnot lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

Jas 1:15 - Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Gods not mad said:

1 when is the last time you watched inappropriate content?
2 when is the last time you lusted after a women?
3 when was the last time you have had fear and did not trust God to provide?
4 when was the last time you became angry with someone and wished harm or even death on them?
5 when was the last time you did not appreciate Gods hand in your life and complained against him?
6 when was the last time you put something before God and made Him second an idol lets say?
7 when was the last time you stole time from your employer?
8 have you gossiped about another in any way recently?
9 when was the last time you were not satisfied with what God has given you?
10 when was the last time you did not love another as Christ has loved you?
11 do you have the perfect SINLESS mind of Christ right now?
12 when is the last time you committed a sin and did not catch it or repent?
13 when was the last time you had an arrogant look
14 if you died after not perfectly repenting according to the "law" would you then have gone to hell?

15 how is salvation exactly lost then, your thoughts?
16 how do you personally repent?
17 what do you do to make things right with God in your theology if you perhaps sinned at some point and forgot?

17 questions if you can answer these perfectly i will consider that perhaps a man trying to accomplish the law by his own good works is something to look into. but for now i'll stick with the fact that i dont have the ability to save myself nor do i have a fully new mind or body and still will sin. how about lets start a conversation around your answers to these 17 questions.

be blessed

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Just last week I sacrificed two she goats to Beelzebub.

Now that we have established that, what does it have to do with the warnings in the new testament against falling away?

HTacianas said:

You mean like these:

Rom 6:16 - Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

1Jo 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which doesnot lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

Jas 1:15 - Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

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Yes, it is a large context.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. James 1:21

The engrafted word is the word that becomes a part of you, much like how the word became flesh in Jesus Christ.

Herein is our love made mature, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

The maturity element of salvation is rarely examined.

Michael Collum said:

Yes, it is a large context.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. James 1:21

The engrafted word is the word that becomes a part of you, much like how the word became flesh in Jesus Christ.

Herein is our love made mature, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

The maturity element of salvation is rarely examined.

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How does that relate to all the sin and death bit?

SeventhFisherofMen said:

I just was curious about those posts online about people who have died that were Christian and experienced going to Hell. Do people really think that it’s all made up and you shouldn’t listen to those testimonies? Do people really think it’s impossible to lose your salvation? Cause there are many testimonies of people who have seen the names of some believers removed from the book of life due to backsliding and unrepentant sin.

Tell me what you think about all this, is it something that you just ignore and hope they’re wrong? Please explain what you do to convince yourself of the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine.

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5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev. 3:5.

Jesus speaks of one's name included(or not) in the book of life. He says He has the power to blot names out of the book of life.
Since I first discovered this verse I automatically supposed it was talking about an overcomer whose name was in the book of life(had salvation); at any time later if he was not overcoming then Jesus could choose to remove his name from the book of life(lose salvatiion).

HTacianas said:

How does that relate to all the sin and death bit?

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Sin is dissolved by confession. 1 John 1:9

Death is consumed by love, the last enemy defeated by God will be death.

Sin matures into death, death matures into something demonic. Not something I like to think about, there are "nobler" things to consider.