800 years, up in smoke, Notre Dame Cathedral

Jon Osterman · Apr 16, 2019

gideon123 said:
"It wasnt even a very nice cathedral"

Have you actually looked at the photos. See above. The Notre Dame Cathedral was one of the most beautiful buildings in the World. I cant imagine how anyone could stand there and not think about the Majesty of God.

Have you ever been? I have.

It is nowhere near the level of, say, St Paul's or even the frauenkirche in Dresden. It is not a particularly original building, as there are much older similar structures. Also, it is only the roof and the spire which is damaged, and the spire was relatively new. I am sure they can repair it.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 16, 2019

parousia70 said:
We are to love and focus on the world Jesus loves (Jn 3:16-17) and rules over (Rev 1:5; Mt 28:18)--the world he gave to his followers (Rom 4:13-18/1 Cor 3:22).

Jesus loves the world and reconciled it. We are to love what Jesus loves.

"Savour ye those things, that be above, not those that be on the earth." - Colossians 3:2 (WYC).

Having become partakers of Jesus' life, it follows that we'll set our thoughts upon the things that are above. We Christians should at all times focus on God's heavenly world, on the eternal blessings which Jesus has prepared for us in our heavenly homes. All our desiring, loving and thinking should be directed heavenward.

Christians can't set their affections upon the world's treasures. This world's things are only to let us do the work which was given us by God to do.

It is the heavenly things that we are to focus on.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 16, 2019

Justified112 said:
You're calling the Holy Spirit "She???"

Yes, I tend to do that. How does your question relate to the OP?

derpytia · Apr 16, 2019

Jon Osterman said:
Have you ever been? I have.Ok

It is nowhere near the level of, say, St Paul's or even the frauenkirche in Dresden. It is not a particularly original building, as there are much older similar structures. Also, it is only the roof and the spire which is damaged, and the spire was relatively new. I am sure they can repair it.

Okay, honestly, at this point, you're just being unnecessarily obtuse.

Justified112 · Apr 17, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
Yes, I tend to do that. How does your question relate to the OP?

The Holy Spirit is not a She. HE is referenced by the male pronoun in the Bible. The Holy Spirit is God and God is referenced by the male pronoun. If your doctrine is off about God, if you promoting this kind of heretical idea, it really doesn't matter what your view is on anything else in the Bible. If the foundation is faulty, everything else built on that foundation will be faulty as well. The cathedral honors the true, living God, not your false, heretical idea of who God is.

Paidiske · Apr 17, 2019

Actually, in Greek, the Holy Spirit is neuter, and in Hebrew, feminine. So in the original languages, not male at all.

That said, this is really off topic in this thread...

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 17, 2019

Justified112 said:
The Holy Spirit is not a She. HE is referenced by the male pronoun in the Bible. The Holy Spirit is God and God is referenced by the male pronoun. If your doctrine is off about God, if you promoting this kind of heretical idea, it really doesn't matter what your view is on anything else in the Bible. If the foundation is faulty, everything else built on that foundation will be faulty as well. The cathedral honors the true, living God, not your false, heretical idea of who God is.

My view of the Spirit still seems off topic.

Justified112 · Apr 17, 2019

Paidiske said:
Actually, in Greek, the Holy Spirit is neuter, and in Hebrew, feminine. So in the original languages, not male at all.

That said, this is really off topic in this thread...

Very well, but I think you know that the grammatical gender of a word is totally separate from the actual gender. "Masculine" and "feminine" in Greek and Hebrew grammar have nothing to do with "male" and "female" gender.

But I will start another thread on that issue.

Erik Nelson · Apr 17, 2019

seekingmuch said:
I don't think it is renovation, but arson.

Apparently, desecrating churches is par for the course in France.

Catholic churches have been desecrated across France—and officials don’t know why

can understand your suspicions, given the tragic context:

France: Attacks Against Jews & Christians Continue to Rise

still, will probably turn out to be "negligence due to underfunding, cost-cutting, corner-cutting & carelessness

probably tossed cigarettes, power-tools left on over the weekend and overheating, or something like that

Erik Nelson · Apr 17, 2019

Hero Paris terror attack priest risked his life running into burning Notre Dame to save Jesus Christ’s Crown of Thorns and other priceless relics

parousia70 · Apr 17, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
"Savour ye those things, that be above, not those that be on the earth." - Colossians 3:2 (WYC).

Having become partakers of Jesus' life, it follows that we'll set our thoughts upon the things that are above. We Christians should at all times focus on God's heavenly world, on the eternal blessings which Jesus has prepared for us in our heavenly homes. All our desiring, loving and thinking should be directed heavenward.

Christians can't set their affections upon the world's treasures. This world's things are only to let us do the work which was given us by God to do.

It is the heavenly things that we are to focus on.

I think most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I have no problem setting my sights on the heavenly as I love the world God also loves.

John 3:16 is not Fake News.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Jesus loves the world and reconciled it. We are to love what Jesus loves.

Ttalkkugjil · Apr 17, 2019

parousia70 said:
I think most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I have no problem setting my sights on the heavenly as I love the world God also loves.

John 3:16 is not Fake News.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Jesus loves the world and reconciled it. We are to love what Jesus loves.

I think that's the greatest eisegesis of that verse I've ever read.

parousia70 · Apr 17, 2019

Ttalkkugjil said:
I think that's the greatest eisegesis of that verse I've ever read.

You can deny the plain meaning of the text if you must.
But Denying the reason God Sent his son is because God Loves the WORLD is the only eisegetic thing happening in this thread around this verse.

God Loves the World. He Made it, looked around, and He decided what He made was Good.
We are to love what God Loves and calls Good.

mmksparbud · Apr 17, 2019

parousia70 said:
I think most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time.
I have no problem setting my sights on the heavenly as I love the world God also loves.

John 3:16 is not Fake News.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Jesus loves the world and reconciled it. We are to love what Jesus loves.

God takes the destruction of His creation seriously. Nobody likes to have something they have made desecrated or destroyed--God is no different.

Rev_11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Dorothy Mae · Apr 17, 2019

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
The spirit which indwells a body has indwelled in multiple bodies in the Notre-Dame Cathedral. It has been a place of worship for 800 or so years where the Sacrament has been performed constantly. Does that count for nothing? Does the effort of the artist to glorify God through that edifice count for nothing?

I can't take this attitude all that seriously because I don't anyone but the purest ascetic actually believes that buildings or material objects aren't that important.

During the French Revolution they honored a prostitute as the goddess of reason and led her into the building. It hasn’t been a place of worship of the true God for millennia, if it ever was. More a house of idolatry.

chevyontheriver · Apr 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
During the French Revolution they honored a prostitute as the goddess of reason and led her into the building.

Yes the French revolutionaries did that. The church later had to be reconsecrated for Christian worship.

It hasn’t been a place of worship of the true God for millennia, if it ever was.

Since Notre Dame cathedral isn't even a millennium old yet ...

More a house of idolatry.

Mind if I interpret that as good old anti-Catholic bigotry? Or do you want me to try to interpret it in some other way?

JackRT · Apr 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
It hasn’t been a place of worship of the true God for millennia, if it ever was. More a house of idolatry.

Even though I am a former Catholic, I find this comment to be not just ignorant but highly insulting to a vast number of Christians. Did Jesus ever use insult to make a point in his dealings with people?

Rubiks · Apr 17, 2019

Dorothy Mae said:
It hasn’t been a place of worship of the true God for millennia, if it ever was.

Today I learned the cathedral was inhabited by pre-Christian believers in the one "true God."

Dorothy Mae · Apr 17, 2019

Rubiks said:
Today I learned the cathedral was inhabited by pre-Christian believers in the one "true God."

How can it be pre-Christian when it’s only 800 years old? Christianity is older.

Dorothy Mae · Apr 17, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
Yes the French revolutionaries did that. The church later had to be reconsecrated for Christian worship.

Since Notre Dame cathedral isn't even a millennium old yet ...

Mind if I interpret that as good old anti-Catholic bigotry? Or do you want me to try to interpret it in some other way?

You are about the age. My mistake. it’s actually more a statement about France. That a fairly non Christian nation.

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