First real image of a black hole
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The IbanezerScrooge
I can't believe what I'm hearing...
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Here we see, like with the discovery of Tiktaalik, the confirmation of several different theories in different fields to achieve something in still a different field of study. It's almost like science, the method, actually works. If this were a different forum I'd quote Dawkins.
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Subduction Zone
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Wow! You do realize that a light-year is a distance don't you? Tell me if this makes any sense:
"In fact, thousands of miles of light eject from a black hole."
The light that escapes from around a black hole never entered the event horizon. It is due to the extreme heating of matter as it spirals into the black hole. You complained about the poor use of terminology in a popular science article and then performed an even more egregious violation yourself.
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morse86
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Laugh out loud.
Anyone with photoshop skills can create that rubbish in half a minute. Only a few people need to know it is a photoshop image, it is called compartmentalization.
Anyone with photoshop skills can create that rubbish in half a minute. Only a few people need to know it is a photoshop image, it is called compartmentalization.
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Subduction Zone
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Perhaps, but they cannot supply the data that demonstrates they did not make it up. You do not seem to understand that that was the sort of image that was expected ahead of time. The math was clear to those in that field and they had already made such images. When a prediction is matched by an event that confirms a theory. It does not "prove" it since one can never absolutely confirm a theory, but it does tell us that it worked in this case.
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This is no different than capturing ultraviolet light from the sun and rendering the image. Whether it’s ultraviolet light, infrared light, visible light, or radio, the process is the same to create the image for humans to be able to see with the naked eye. Not sure why you think it's rubbish.
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Doveaman
Re-Created, Not Evolved.
Is it really what a black hole looks like?
This is what a black hole looks like.
Or is it simply what an electric plasmoid looks like?
Black Hole or Plasmoid?
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I guess my first question would be what you expect to see in terms of the jet patterns at the poles of the plasmoid. Would they mimic what black holes are theorized to do, or does the plasmiod model predict something different?
I guess I really just assume there's a lot of mass present in that general vicinity. I don't have a problem with the bulk of the mass being in the middle dark area of that image or in the bright ring. Might the jet patterns allow us to differentiate between both models?
I guess I really just assume there's a lot of mass present in that general vicinity. I don't have a problem with the bulk of the mass being in the middle dark area of that image or in the bright ring. Might the jet patterns allow us to differentiate between both models?
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So what exactly is that 'handle-looking' thingy in the bottom left hand image? Looks like some sort of human-engineered apparatus or something. I'd say that's a significant clue in your quest to explain what is already well-explained and evidenced via astro-observations.Is it really what a black hole looks like?
Or is it simply what an electric plasmoid looks like?
Black Hole or Plasmoid?
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Subduction Zone
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Predicting what one will observe is a way that theories and hypotheses are tested. Too bad for the EU crowd that the observed image was much closer to the predicted image of standard physics.
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Ok, I'll bite. Why is that too bad? Its exactly what I expected it to look like too. I'm fine with GR without all the metaphysical nonsense. A 'supermassive black hole' would simply be the single biggest "homopolar generator" in the galaxy according to Alfven's plasma cosmology model. Contrary to popular mythology not all individuals think alike in the EU/PC community. Wal is welcome to speculate about the centers of galaxies like everyone else, and I don't personally feel threatened by listening to alternative ideas, even if I'm not swayed by them.
There may even be ways to 'test' a plasmoid model with respect to the directional flow of jets. The homopolar generator model would be compatible with those jets. I'm not sure about a plasmoid. Wal Thornhill is a fine guy, but he's not the official spokesman for the entire EU/PC community.
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Subduction Zone
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Did you look at the image of what a "plasmoid" would created? It did not match the observations from the black hole.
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It does however have all the earmarks of a classic example of what Alfven called a homopolar generator, including the obvious current carrying filaments at both poles. That works just fine by me.
The beauty of being an EU/PC proponent is that you're actually allowed to think for yourself.
I'd really love to see an overlay image of the jets from the object and the radio image.
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Subduction Zone
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what have you been smoking? There are no filaments nor poles.It does however have all the earmarks of a classic example of what Alfven called a homopolar generator, including the obvious current carrying filaments at both poles. That works just fine by me.
The beauty of being an EU/PC proponent is that you're actually allowed to think for yourself.
I'd really love to see an overlay image of the jets from the object and the radio image.
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Ignoring the EU nonsense of the BH being a homopolar generator or a plasmoid, the BH in M87 not only matches the theoretical shape and the brightness asymmetry due to relativistic beaming but also the diameter of the photon ring provides a numerical prediction which can be checked against observation.
A less known property of BH’s is that photons captured may not necessarily disappear down the event horizon but form orbits at distances from the BH depending on its mass.
Even though the BH in M87 is a rotating Kerr type, it rotates slowly enough to be approximated as a static BH.
The radius of the photon orbit around a static BH r, is r = 1.5rₛ where rₛ = 2MG/c² is the radius of the event horizon.
When the photon orbit is observed from very long distances such as the Earth-M87 distance, gravitational lensing magnifies the size of the orbit according to the equation
rₑ = r√(1 - rₛ/r) where rₑ is the magnified radius.
From Earth this appears as a photon ring.
Combining rₑ = r√(1 - rₛ/r) with r = 1.5rₛ gives rₑ = 2.6 rₛ.
We can calculate the theoretical value and compare it to the actual value from the constructed image.
Mass of BH in M87 = 1.3 x 10⁴⁰ kg
Distance = 5.06 x 10²³ M.
rₛ = 2MG/c² = (2 x 1.3 x 10⁴⁰ x 6.67 x 10⁻¹¹)/(3 x 10⁸)² = 1.9 x 10¹³ m
Diameter of photon ring = 2 x 2.6rₛ = 2 x 2.6 x 1.9 x 10¹³ m = 9.88 x 10¹³ m.
Angle subtended in radians θ:
= (diameter of photon ring)/distance = (9.88 x 10¹³)/(5.06 x 10²³) = 1.95 x 10⁻¹⁰
Convert radians to μas = (1.95 x 10⁻¹⁰ x 60 x 10800 x 10⁶)/3.14 ≈ 40 μas.
40 μas is the theoretical value, the measured value is 42 ± 3 μas which is in agreement.
While this is a simplified back of an envelope calculation approximating a static BH, the “discovery” paper uses a sophisticated mathematical model based on a rotating Kerr type BH where the theoretical value (43 ± 0.9 μas) is even closer to the measured value.
A less known property of BH’s is that photons captured may not necessarily disappear down the event horizon but form orbits at distances from the BH depending on its mass.
Even though the BH in M87 is a rotating Kerr type, it rotates slowly enough to be approximated as a static BH.
The radius of the photon orbit around a static BH r, is r = 1.5rₛ where rₛ = 2MG/c² is the radius of the event horizon.
When the photon orbit is observed from very long distances such as the Earth-M87 distance, gravitational lensing magnifies the size of the orbit according to the equation
rₑ = r√(1 - rₛ/r) where rₑ is the magnified radius.
From Earth this appears as a photon ring.
Combining rₑ = r√(1 - rₛ/r) with r = 1.5rₛ gives rₑ = 2.6 rₛ.
We can calculate the theoretical value and compare it to the actual value from the constructed image.
Mass of BH in M87 = 1.3 x 10⁴⁰ kg
Distance = 5.06 x 10²³ M.
rₛ = 2MG/c² = (2 x 1.3 x 10⁴⁰ x 6.67 x 10⁻¹¹)/(3 x 10⁸)² = 1.9 x 10¹³ m
Diameter of photon ring = 2 x 2.6rₛ = 2 x 2.6 x 1.9 x 10¹³ m = 9.88 x 10¹³ m.
Angle subtended in radians θ:
= (diameter of photon ring)/distance = (9.88 x 10¹³)/(5.06 x 10²³) = 1.95 x 10⁻¹⁰
Convert radians to μas = (1.95 x 10⁻¹⁰ x 60 x 10800 x 10⁶)/3.14 ≈ 40 μas.
40 μas is the theoretical value, the measured value is 42 ± 3 μas which is in agreement.
While this is a simplified back of an envelope calculation approximating a static BH, the “discovery” paper uses a sophisticated mathematical model based on a rotating Kerr type BH where the theoretical value (43 ± 0.9 μas) is even closer to the measured value.
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Subduction Zone
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Still not "fillaments. And still not anywhere close to your non-scientific beliefs. You are also mixing photographs. Why use such a misleading tactic?
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