You must PROVE you LOVE the LORD to be saved!

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Dorothy Mae

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Why do you imagine that a Christian who knows the Lord, knows his love, has received his mercy, grace, gifts and every spiritual blessing in Christ would WANT to live a life of continual unrepentant sin?
He is not imagining it. It happens as Jesus said it would and I know the names of those who have done this. Exactly this as you describe. It is called "falling away from the faith" and Hebrews speaks of those who have tasted the above and fall away." It happens.
Why do you think that someone who loves the Lord, is getting to know him - or has had the joy of walking with him for many years - will get out of bed one day and think "now, what can I do to badly hurt/sin against and disappoint God today?"
Do you sin? Or are you sinless? Do you get out of be and say "now, what can I do to badly hurt/sin against and disappoint God today?" Is that how sinful deeds become reality in your life?
Have you been in a relationship with someone, been very much in love with them, and then planned to deliberately hurt them?
I know people who have planned to deliberately hurt someone they loved or claim to love. Why? Because they were angry or disappointed. Do you think no one who loves another ever hurts them or it is all a mistake? You ever heard of wife beating? You ever heard of child beating? Do you think those people do not love the one they hurt?
I would guess you haven't. We don't behave like that towards the people we love, respect, honour etc - so why imagine that we will behave like that towards God?
You are supposed to love, respect and honor your brothers and sisters in the Lord and you yourself do not do this at all. You thought a post was written by me and so felt free to write an insulting response until you realized it was not me. Is this fulfilling the command to love, respect and honor especially those of the household of faith??? You do not live your own standard, my dear.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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But, perhaps John MacArthur's explanations of the Truth
will help you ... coming up soon! ... don't miss it.
He will answer to the Lord for the numerous people who end up in hell by believing his promises to them of eternal salvation no matter if they love God or not. Teachers are judged with greater severity.
 
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It is the fear of man that induces a person to try and prove to others that he really loves God and is walking in the Spirit. I found when I was younger in the Lord, that's what I was doing and didn't realise it. I didn't realise how strongly I was bound to my mentors and went to great efforts to please them, when the Lord had already assured me that He loved and accepted me as I was. It was only when I went through a series of events in my life where my mentors had no answers for me, and I ditched them and went alone, that I learned when I was pleasing the Lord in my conduct and when He, through the Holy Spirit felt the need to correct me.

I find sometimes, even now, after 53 years in the faith, I day-dream about achieving something in the Lord and wondering if that would please my old pastor, or someone in my past whom I wanted to please - to assure them that I was really walking with the Lord. I have to tell the Lord about it and renounce the desire to please anyone else except the Lord, because when the chips are down, there is no one but the Lord to impress, and if He likes what I am doing, then everyone else who would judge me can go chase themselves.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Matthew 22:37-38
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
This is the first and great commandment.”

We actually must PROVE our LOVE for the LORD …

1 John 2:5, NLT
Those who obey God’s word truly show
how completely they love Him. That is how
we know we are living in Him.”

BACs who have “no condemnation” are “in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1).

1 John 5:3, NLT
Loving God means keeping His commandments,
and His commandments are not burdensome.”


John 14:15-24
If you love Me, obey My commandments
… He who has My commandments and obeys them, it is he who loves Me
… If anyone loves Me, he will obey My word
… He who does NOT love Me
does NOT obey My words”


Does anyone get to heaven who does NOT love Jesus?
Those who love Jesus will obey His commandments!


IF you PROVE that you LOVE Jesus, then you have
met one of the qualifications for salvation …


Romans 8:28-30
“And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”


Another way to PROVE your LOVE for the LORD …

James 1:12-15
“Blessed is the man who endures temptation;
for when he has been approved, he will receive
the crown of life which the Lord has promised to
those who love Him … But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived,
it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.”

Love Jesus >>> endure temptation >>>
do not sin >>> crown of (eternal) life


John 15:9-14
“… abide in My love.
If you obey My commandments,
you will abide in My love
… You are My friends,
if you do whatever I command you.”

Those who are Jesus’ friends will obey His commandments!
Does anyone get to heaven who is NOT Jesus’ friend?


John 15:6
“If anyone does NOT abide in Me,
he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.”
That we need to love God and man to be a part of his family and live in his home is true. But I still would not say that we have to prove this to God. I don't think it works like that. When we surrender to Him and start to follow Jesus, we begin to find love for God and man. Some are further along on that road that others although the passage of time is not the determining factor, obedience is. Still we are not proving to God something that He knows.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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It is the fear of man that induces a person to try and prove to others that he really loves God and is walking in the Spirit. I found when I was younger in the Lord, that's what I was doing and didn't realise it. I didn't realise how strongly I was bound to my mentors and went to great efforts to please them, when the Lord had already assured me that He loved and accepted me as I was. It was only when I went through a series of events in my life where my mentors had no answers for me, and I ditched them and went alone, that I learned when I was pleasing the Lord in my conduct and when He, through the Holy Spirit felt the need to correct me.

I find sometimes, even now, after 53 years in the faith, I day-dream about achieving something in the Lord and wondering if that would please my old pastor, or someone in my past whom I wanted to please - to assure them that I was really walking with the Lord. I have to tell the Lord about it and renounce the desire to please anyone else except the Lord, because when the chips are down, there is no one but the Lord to impress, and if He likes what I am doing, then everyone else who would judge me can go chase themselves.
Nice post. The desire to please those over us is deeply seated in us as small children. It is our first motivation to alter behaviour. It is not bad per se and is better than not caring what God or man think of us which is usually very bad. But the fear of the Lord is much better and brings real freedom although his standard of acceptable behaviour is a lot higher than man's.
 
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He will answer to the Lord for the numerous people who end up in hell by believing his promises to them of eternal salvation no matter if they love God or not. Teachers are judged with greater severity.
Dr MacArthur will one day have to answer to the Lord over all the good believers who were and are afraid to seek the baptism with the Spirit and the gifts, including tongues, because of his teaching that Charismatics are out-of-control, mainly demonized in the way they move in the Holy Spirit and use His gifts. He teaches that the Corinthian church was full of demons, inspired by them in the way they conducted themselves, and that modern Charismatic churches are just following in the Corinthians' footsteps in their pagan practices. He may teach some good stuff, but the 2% poison he teaches along with the good stuff can kill good believers stone dead spiritually and render them useless for Christian service.
 
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Nice post. The desire to please those over us is deeply seated in us as small children. It is our first motivation to alter behaviour. It is not bad per se and is better than not caring what God or man think of us which is usually very bad. But the fear of the Lord is much better and brings real freedom although his standard of acceptable behaviour is a lot higher than man's.
For the first two years of my Christian life, all my Christian friends treated me as a problem case. When I got alone with the Lord one evening in the middle of a golf course and introduced myself to Him and said I needed to know Him personally. Immediately He made Himself real to me, and assured me that He accepted me as I was and what He didn't like about me, He would change it. This was totally different to how any of my Christian friends treated me. One, just one, of my friends, when I went back to fellowship with them, said that there was something different about me. Sure was! I had met the Lord and He accepted me and did not see me as a problem case at all!
 
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Strong in Him

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He is not imagining it. It happens as Jesus said it would and I know the names of those who have done this. Exactly this as you describe. It is called "falling away from the faith"

I know it happens if Christians fall away from the faith; I've said that.
But I can't imagine Christians who are IN the faith, loving and serving God, to want to "live a life of continual, unrepentant sin". Of course we all sin and mess up, but "continual unrepentant sin" sounds like intent; deliberate intent to sin and keep doing evil.
When someone is in Christ they are a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17 - we have a new heart and new life; it's what being born again means. It may sometimes take a while for some of our old habits to die; but our hearts will be towards God, not sin.

Do you sin? Or are you sinless? Do you get out of be and say "now, what can I do to badly hurt/sin against and disappoint God today?"

No to both.
I don't PLAN to sin and hurt God - which is what "living a life of continual, unrepentant sin" would suggest. But I don't always get it right, either.

I know people who have planned to deliberately hurt someone they loved or claim to love. Why? Because they were angry or disappointed.

Yes, I know.
In fact, in other threads I've said that if someone were disappointed or angry with God, decide to sin to hurt him, turn their back on him for a while and then die before they turned back; that I do not think the Lord would judge them too harshly because he alone sees their heart and would have known that their recent sins came from a place of hurt/disappointment.

You are supposed to love, respect and honor your brothers and sisters in the Lord and you yourself do not do this at all.

When have I not done this?
I admit that if a topic is dear to my heart and someone is contradicting it, or implying that I'm less than Christian for believing it, I may get a little exasperated, and passionate. I admit also that if someone straight out makes a false accusation it's hard not to bite back with sarcasm.
But how do I not honour my brothers and sisters in the Lord?

You thought a post was written by me and so felt free to write an insulting response until you realized it was not me.

When did I do that?

Is this fulfilling the command to love, respect and honor especially those of the household of faith???

I'm not aware that I did that. If I did, then of course I apologise.
 
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It needs to be pointed out that These same believers in Ephesus were warned by Jesus himself that if they didn’t repent he was going to “remove their (sealed) lampstand.” They didn’t and he did. Jesus is found worthy to break the seals.
Yes, even though he was writing ONLY to "the faithful"
saints in Ephesus, he did warn them about the dire
consequences of habitual sinning, falling away, etc.

Faithful now is not equal to faithful later.
 
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He will answer to the Lord for the numerous people who end up in hell by believing his promises to them of eternal salvation no matter if they love God or not. Teachers are judged with greater severity.
MacArthur wrote this anointed and famous book
in 1988, with a valuable update in 1994 ...
John MacArthur explains easy-believism grace-only
Since then, apparently he has fallen away!
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Yes, even though he was writing ONLY to "the faithful"
saints in Ephesus, he did warn them about the dire
consequences of habitual sinning, falling away, etc.

Faithful now is not equal to faithful later.
That’s why they all warned to take care.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I know it happens if Christians fall away from the faith; I've said that.
But I can't imagine Christians who are IN the faith, loving and serving God, to want to "live a life of continual, unrepentant sin". Of course we all sin and mess up, but "continual unrepentant sin" sounds like intent; deliberate intent to sin and keep doing evil.
When someone is in Christ they are a new creation, 2 Corinthians 5:17 - we have a new heart and new life; it's what being born again means. It may sometimes take a while for some of our old habits to die; but our hearts will be towards God, not sin.
It happens and the Bible also describes it.
No to both.
I don't PLAN to sin and hurt God - which is what "living a life of continual, unrepentant sin" would suggest. But I don't always get it right, either.
Then why do you describe those who fell away doing this? No one does this. But they fall away from the faith because the pleasure of sin is strong. They don’t fall away because they “decided” to hurt God. That’s absurd.
Yes, I know.
In fact, in other threads I've said that if someone were disappointed or angry with God, decide to sin to hurt him, turn their back on him for a while and then die before they turned back; that I do not think the Lord would judge them too harshly because he alone sees their heart and would have known that their recent sins came from a place of hurt/disappointment.
No one does this. Not even the Devil sinned to purposely hurt God. You need to drop that idea. It is a straw man argument. They sin because of its pleasure .
When have I not done this?
I admit that if a topic is dear to my heart and someone is contradicting it, or implying that I'm less than Christian for believing it, I may get a little exasperated, and passionate. I admit also that if someone straight out makes a false accusation it's hard not to bite back with sarcasm.
But how do I not honour my brothers and sisters in the Lord?
Maybe I’ve mistaken you for someone else. That person would never have responded as well as you have here.

When did I do that? I'm not aware that I did that. If I did, then of course I apologise.
I must be mistaken , my apologies.
 
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Because Paul was in jail for believing. He knew if he embraces that faith he might end up in jail too. Pretty obvious.

He was jailed because he was defying the authorities and drawing attention away from their rules. Otherwise, why did the jailer suddenly care about how to be saved if he was so afraid of ending up in jail himself?

Because no one who knows Jesus says that. You’re attacking a straw man.

You're correct that no one who knows Jesus says that. That's what I'm trying to point out. So why do you and the other guy on this forum keep insisting that following the rules is how we are saved?
 
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You mean you’ll stick to the promises to you that use the verbs requiring no action on your part? Verses telling you to look or see or believe or trust? Verses telling you to forgive or repent or give or obey are edited out, as far as I can see. It’s too bad for you because while I don’t doubt you’re a believer in Christ, the fullness of His grace will not be something you’ll taste.

You may be confused about what I'm saying because this thread has been about the idea of having to "prove" something in order to be saved. But that's been the subject. Believing on Jesus Christ is how we are saved, and we remain His forever. That doesn't mean that we'll have a great life and relationship with Him if we don't obey His commandments. It's the same as if you have a totally bad relationship with your parents as a child. You could mouth off at your parents, never talk to them, stay out late, destroy your bedroom, and tell them you hate them when they try to discipline you. Now, tell me what point you stop being your parent's son or daughter. It never happens.

Does this mean I'm advocating that we be this way toward God, and that it's what He desires, or we should desire? No. We're simply talking about the requirements of salvation, which is the topic of the thread.
 
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It needs to be pointed out that These same believers in Ephesus were warned by Jesus himself that if they didn’t repent he was going to “remove their (sealed) lampstand.” They didn’t and he did. Jesus is found worthy to break the seals.

I just did a little research into the meaning of the lampstands in Revelation, and it doesn't seem to relate to salvation, or seals.
 
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To keep something as it was until it is necessary to break the seal by those so authorized to do so.

Yes, but only by the one authorized to do so. In this case, "on the day of redemption".
 
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Dorothy Mae

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You may be confused about what I'm saying because this thread has been about the idea of having to "prove" something in order to be saved. But that's been the subject. Believing on Jesus Christ is how we are saved, and we remain His forever. That doesn't mean that we'll have a great life and relationship with Him if we don't obey His commandments. It's the same as if you have a totally bad relationship with your parents as a child. You could mouth off at your parents, never talk to them, stay out late, destroy your bedroom, and tell them you hate them when they try to discipline you. Now, tell me what point you stop being your parent's son or daughter. It never happens.
Do you have children? If one of them started beating, molesting and eventually murdering the other children, would you still not tell the evil one to leave? Do you think this just? Is this a loving father? He lets the abusive one terrorize the others cause he can’t get out of that one being a son? And if he sends him away, does he cease to be a son? Can’t a son end up in jail or hell and remain a son?
Does this mean I'm advocating that we be this way toward God, and that it's what He desires, or we should desire? No. We're simply talking about the requirements of salvation, which is the topic of the thread.
The requirements are real. What do you think the requirements of salvation are?
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Yes, but only by the one authorized to do so. In this case, "on the day of redemption".
In Rev Jesus broke some seals. Day of redemption still hasn’t come. The description is not the day of redemption.
 
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"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." What happens to the seal if you grieve the Holy Spirit? Nothing? He is trapped by the seal, which he actually is? If the Holy Spirit departs, the seal is broken.

You make it sound like God changes His mind very easily. But even Paul recognizes this to be untrue.

"And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory." Ephesians 1:13-14
 
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Dorothy Mae

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I just did a little research into the meaning of the lampstands in Revelation, and it doesn't seem to relate to salvation, or seals.
Only if you think Jesus’ warning was nothing special. He warned but it really wasn’t anything, was it? If you think Jesus can’t warn about losing what he gave including salvation, why did he bother to earn at all?
 
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