Believers’ faith must endure until the end of their lives!

pasifika said:

Bless you too friend...if you read my first paragraph you will see that's what I wrote down..."we are the branches " Our purpose is to bear fruit- (fruit for God)....

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pasifika said:

I will expand my answer on this question from my other post...the main purpose of this parable or any other Parables in NT is for the hearer (them or you and me!) to understand them...there are messages and mysteries are found in those Parables but ONLY those who have understanding are one that will be benefit....(understanding comes from knowledge it's a gift of God)

So, Jesus knew they are incapable of remaining in Him by their own strength....But, the real focus of the Parables is whether the Hearer understand the way Jesus knew that they are unable to remain in Him by their own... unless God Himself is involved...

So some will responded to the message by faith...Eg they said in their heart " If God can create everything and have the power to give life to All creatures on earth and if there is nothing is impossible for Him to do...CERTAINLY Only Him who can enable Us to remain in His Son to be save..

But,

Some will responded in trying to justify or make a point to God of something that God knew they cannot do but given them to do anyway...and then punish them when fail..In other words they put God like an Unjust God, Unkind, Unloving etc...they made God like a HUMAN GOD but not an Almighty God!!! The God whose LOVE ENDURES FOREVER. ...

We can see these groups today!!!

God bless

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1stcenturylady said:

The difference between Romans 7 and Romans 8 is SIN. The law showed us our sin; Christ takes our desire to sin away and makes us dead to sin. Thus, no longer need the law if you walk in the Spirit. You don't get that? Go figure.

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ICONO'CLAST said:

Paul did not share in your error. He was.under law to Christ. You should not attempt to teach error. You need to learn of the correct use of the law in the life of a true believer.

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BNR32FAN said:

In this case the “hearers” are Jesus’ 11 faithful apostles. Jesus gave this message only to His 11 faithful apostles right after the Last Supper after Judas had already left the group to go and betray Him. This takes place while Jesus and His 11 faithful apostles were walking to the olive grove in Gethsemane. So the only ones present are His faithful apostles which is why I believe this is a very powerful message since it was given to men who were undoubtedly chosen by God.

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BNR32FAN said:

Please forgive me I misunderstood you friend. I thought you were saying that we are the tree and our branches bear fruit. Someone had once explained John 15 to me like that before I mistakenly thought that was your position also.

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1stcenturylady said:

Error? That is rude, carnal and false. I repeat, Romans 7 is about the law of sin and death, that showed us our sin, also called the ministry of death, engraved on stone. Romans 8 is about the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST that has FREED us from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:2. That is what Paul kept, the righteous requirements of the law through the power of the Spirit, not our carnal flesh that can never please God. If you walk in the Spirit, you are not under the law. And the law of the Spirit goes far deeper in the heart than the surface commandments of the law. What the Spirit frees us from is SIN! That is why Jesus came! 1 John 3:5. Why you can't see that Paul is comparing the LAW kept with carnal flesh vs. the Spirit that has killed the carnal flesh, making us dead to sin is baffling. The scriptures are clear as day.

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Neogaia777 said:

Maybe some of us don't fully realize the full power of the Spirit yet maybe...? We may or might have it/Him, but it's also a "journey" to "realize that" usually, first His presence, then His power... And then, each one unique and different as well, custom tailored to them, their personality, ect...

But, Maybe some of us don't fully realize the full power of the Spirit yet maybe...?

God Bless!

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ICONO'CLAST said:

Or, maybe some of us actually understand Romans 7 and 8 correctly.
Real Christians keep the law of God by the power of the Spirit.

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1stcenturylady said:

Error? That is rude, carnal and false. I repeat, Romans 7 is about the law of sin and death, that showed us our sin, also called the ministry of death, engraved on stone. Romans 8 is about the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST that has FREED us from the law of sin and death, Romans 8:2. That is what Paul kept, the righteous requirements of the law through the power of the Spirit, not our carnal flesh that can never please God. If you walk in the Spirit, you are not under the law. And the law of the Spirit goes far deeper in the heart than the surface commandments of the law. What the Spirit frees us from is SIN! That is why Jesus came! 1 John 3:5. Why you can't see that Paul is comparing the LAW kept with carnal flesh vs. the Spirit that has killed the carnal flesh, making us dead to sin is baffling. The scriptures are clear as day.

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Neogaia777 said:

Can anyone one us keep it perfectly all the time though, or are we missing the point even thinking about that, ect...? One probably would have to first believe it was possible, first, at any rate, or in any case, I just don't know if it is, if that that is even the point, ect, if were missing the point, ect...

But I am about to start to do some more walking in and with the Spirit of God, and her post made me think of at least the possibility that, by walking in the Spirit, and being in and with the Spirit more, and the Spirit in you more, and then, then knew or realized the full power thereof, or thereby, that can come from him and flow through you, be with you, ect, reside in you, ect...

If I got that or somehow could fully realize that and the power thereof, it made me consider that I (we) could completely and totally conquer (our) sin once and for all, but in this life, for the rest of our lives after a certain point in this life, ect, before the next life, ect...

But, It's like a "dream" to me, seems sometimes like maybe a fantasy of fiction, the idea that I could somehow be made to be, or could become perfect and sinless, ect, in this world and life, this side of life, ect...

So, we are probably now gonna move to classifying and comparing sin and each others sins again soon now right...? Arguing about that, ect... who's saved or not, ect... based on that, ect...

Anyhow,

God Bless!

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BCsenior said:

Continuing belief-faith is necessary for
continuing salvation-eternal life

“… whoever believes [continues to believe] in Him may have [may continue to have] eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes [continues to believe] in Him should not perish but have [continue to have] eternal life.” (John 3:15-16)
These verbs in Greek and English are in the
present tense … always believing and having!

“He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — IF indeed you continue in the faith … and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:22-23)

“It is this Good News (the gospel) that saves you, IF you continue to believe the message I told you” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

“So we must listen very carefully to the truth we have heard, or we may drift away from it … every act of disobedience was punished. So what makes us think we can escape, IF we ignore this great salvation” (Hebrews 2:1-3)

“And we are God’s house, IF we keep our courage and remain confident in our hope in Christ …
Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God … so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God. For IF we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ.” (Hebrews 3:6,12-14)

“IF we endure, we shall also reign with Him.”
(2 Timothy 2:12)

“… follow the example of those who are going to inherit God’s promises because of their faith and endurance.” (Hebrews 6:11-12)

“Patient endurance is what you need, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised. … ‘And my righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.’ But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction (eternal death).” (Hebrews 10:36-39)

“Stay true to what is right (the true gospel) for
the sake of your own salvation and the salvation
of those who hear you.” (1 Timothy 4:16)

“… work out your own salvation with fear
and trembling … holding fast the word of life,
so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ
that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.”
(Philippians 2:12,16)
If they fail to endure, Paul has wasted his efforts!

“... you have been grieved by various trials
that the genuineness of your faith … though it is
tested by fire … receiving the end of your faith
— the salvation of your souls.” (1 Peter 1:7-9)

This has nothing to do with rewards …
“God blesses those who patiently endure testing and temptation. Afterward they will receive the crown of (eternal) life that God has promised to those who love him.” (James 1:12)

4 times in John 14, Jesus said (paraphrasing): Those
who love Me will obey (keep) My commandments.

“God’s holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.” (Revelation 14:12)

Because of all of the above verses,
this also refers to salvation …
“But the one who endures to the end
(of his/her life) will be saved.”
(Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13)

Everything is CONDITIONAL … so …
Those who endure in the faith to the end
keep their righteous standing with God!

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• if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel

Neogaia777 said:

Can anyone one us keep it perfectly all the time though, or are we missing the point even thinking about that, ect...? One probably would have to first believe it was possible, first, at any rate, or in any case, I just don't know if it is, if that that is even the point, ect, if were missing the point, ect...

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pasifika said:

Yes you're right, Jesus was speaking to the 11 Apostles only...they are the one who will take this message of salvation to the the whole world....

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1stcenturylady said:

It was NOT a struggle for Paul all his life, but only when he was a Pharisee and UNDER the LAW before Christ! You still don't get it do you?

Romans 7 vs. Romans 8
is the Law vs. Spirit;
ministry of death vs. ministry of Spirit;
old man vs. new man;
unsaved vs. saved.
Understand now?

When Paul became a Christian he was no longer under the LAW, but under the Spirit. Romans 7 no longer applied to Paul!

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BNR32FAN said:

But the question still remains why would this message be important to those who are chosen by God if they cannot fail to abide and why would it be important to those not chosen by God if they are incapable of abiding regardless of their efforts? Why give a command if they are powerless to to obey or disobey? This message wouldn’t be beneficial to anyone.

If the 11 faithful apostles are chosen by God why would Jesus say to them

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NASB‬‬

This is a strong indication that it is possible for them to fail to abide in Him. Notice He gives no assurance that they will automatically abide in Him because they are chosen by God.

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ICONO'CLAST said:

Correcting someone in error,is not rude,carnal,or false...it is speaking the truth in love. For you to post that to walk in the Spirit means we are not under law is known as antinomianism that is a heretical idea.
Christians are not law less..
Paul is Not saying that God's law is sin and death.
The law is holy,just, and good.
You seem to fit 1tim1:7-8
Desiring to be teachers of the law,understanding neither what they say,nor whereof they affirm.
But we know the law is good if a man use it lawfully.
In verse 7 Paul asks...is the law sin...his answer, God forbid. Vs12 the law is holy.
Vs22...I delight in the law of God.
Vs25...I myself serve the law of God.

Put down you false teaching charismatic ideas and study the scripture.

What you highlighted in red, the law of sin and death is speaking of...the motions of sin,vs5...which were in our members. .brought forth fruit unto death...Gods law does not bring forth fruit unto death...the motions of sin does.
Jesus was a law keeper...the law of God did not produce fruit unto death in His sinless life.

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JLB777 said:

Amen.


Here is how we are instructed to remain in Him.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

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