Forever

WordSword · Apr 13, 2019

Eternal life has to do with two elements: being in God; and in an incorruptible physical body, termed a “spiritual body” (1Co 15:44, e.g. Luk 24:39). Thus the “resurrection” has solely to do with a new physical body, which all who come into this life will receive, the good and the evil (Jhn 5:28). All will be raised, some unto eternal life, and most unto eternal death (“second death” - Rev 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8); which the latter “shall be forever and ever” in “the lake of fire” (Rev 20:10).

Eternal life can only be given once, or it isn’t eternal life, because it is life in God—“forever.” If one were asking God for eternal life, wouldn’t He know if they were being sincere? Thus, to honor His Word He gives it only to those He knows who genuinely desire it. How could He do otherwise, knowing their insincerity? It’s insensible to conceive that He would give this gift knowing He would be taking it back due to the absence of truly desiring it.

Regardless of how hard it may seem, in knowing that God foreknows most will choose the “broad way” (Mat 7:13, 14), we can be confidently assured that all He does is “good” (e.g. Gen 1:4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, 31).

com7fy8 · Apr 13, 2019

WordSword said:
Eternal life has to do with two elements: being in God; and in an incorruptible physical body, termed a “spiritual body” (1Co 15:44, e.g. Luk 24:39).

Jesus Himself is the life > John 14:6. And 1 John 5:11 says our eternal life is in Jesus. So, by having Jesus in us now we already have eternal life living in us. Jesus rose "a life-giving spirit", we have in 1 Corinthians 15:45. So, Jesus in us gives us His own life . . . of His own love. So, eternal life is now the life of God's own love being shared with us in Jesus > 1 Corinthians 6:17, Romans 5:5.

So, eternal life is not a thing of procrastinating until after we die. Also, it is not first about just lasting forever and being happy that we won't die and we will feel good; but there is the quality of God's own love in this life > having Heaven's goodness and pleasant rest (Matthew 11:28-30) and kindness making us all-loving like Jesus (Matthew 5:46), more and more as we grow in this . . . now, in this life.

And this conforms us more and more to the image of Jesus so we are ready to spend eternity with Jesus as our Groom > Romans 8:29, 1 John 4:17.

WordSword said:
Thus the “resurrection” has solely to do with a new physical body

Well, in my opinion, when we get resurrected in Jesus, our nature will be transformed more-so to be fully like Christ. During this life we get started > 1 John 4:17-18 < in being perfected in God's love so that "as He is, so are we in this world." But I understand that while we are in our physical bodies, our character won't be fully the way Jesus is. But in the resurrection we will reap so much more (Galatians 6:7-8) in our character and in the glorifying of our bodies so we shine brighter than the sun.

WordSword said:
All will be raised, some unto eternal life

But do you believe that we already will be started in eternal life . . . of God's love . . . before we are resurrected "unto" eternal life?

WordSword said:
Eternal life can only be given once, or it isn’t eternal life, because it is life in God—“forever.”

Yes, but it is not only a timeline thing, of how long our life will be after we die, but there is the quality of God's own love with this eternal love life, which we start in now in this life; and we need to get more correction and transformation to be fully in this eternal life. This is what I consider; what do you think?

This is important, since, if I am correct, this means we need to get started now in how we become in the eternal life of God's love, so we are prepared to spend eternity in this.

We need to actively seek our Father for how He alone is able to deeply correct and transform us into the image of His Son > Hebrews 12:4-14, Romans 8:29. And this is the focus of our Apostle Paul's ministry > Colossians 1:28-29. So, this needs to have our attention > how God now changes us to become like Jesus and how Jesus has loved us > this is commanded >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God or a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Dan1988 · Apr 13, 2019

WordSword said:
Eternal life has to do with two elements: being in God; and in an incorruptible physical body, termed a “spiritual body” (1Co 15:44, e.g. Luk 24:39). Thus the “resurrection” has solely to do with a new physical body, which all who come into this life will receive, the good and the evil (Jhn 5:28). All will be raised, some unto eternal life, and most unto eternal death (“second death” - Rev 2:11; 20:6, 14; 21:8); which the latter “shall be forever and ever” in “the lake of fire” (Rev 20:10).

Eternal life can only be given once, or it isn’t eternal life, because it is life in God—“forever.” If one were asking God for eternal life, wouldn’t He know if they were being sincere? Thus, to honor His Word He gives it only to those He knows who genuinely desire it. How could He do otherwise, knowing their insincerity? It’s insensible to conceive that He would give this gift knowing He would be taking it back due to the absence of truly desiring it.

Regardless of how hard it may seem, in knowing that God foreknows most will choose the “broad way” (Mat 7:13, 14), we can be confidently assured that all He does is “good” (e.g. Gen 1:4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, 31).

The Bible says that everyone will be resurrected on judgement day. Believers will receive their new sinless glorified, eternal bodies and enter heaven. Those who died in their sin will be resurrected and receive their eternal corrupt bodies and cast into hell, to be tormented forever.

The Bible is quite clear that nobody chooses heaven or hell, as we are all born dead in our sin. So nobody can make a decision to believe in their natural sate. God must regenerate us, or quicken us to life before we can receive spiritual things.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There are many other texts which make it clear that, nobody would ever choose to believe if God didn't first open their spiritual eyes.
I know some very intelligent and morally good people who reject the Gospel as foolishness. They just can't accept it, no matter how much evidence is presented to them.

It pleases God to reveal the truth to simple ordinary people and hide it from the super intelligent and wise people of this world.

We don't know why God chooses to reveal the truth to some, and leave others spiritually dead in their sin. God's Word doesn't tell us why, but we can be certain that everything He does is perfect and "good" as you rightly put it.

WordSword · Apr 13, 2019

com7fy8 said:
Jesus Himself is the life > John 14:6. And 1 John 5:11 says our eternal life is in Jesus. So, by having Jesus in us now we already have eternal life living in us. Jesus rose "a life-giving spirit", we have in 1 Corinthians 15:45. So, Jesus in us gives us His own life . . . of His own love. So, eternal life is now the life of God's own love being shared with us in Jesus > 1 Corinthians 6:17, Romans 5:5.

Amen - eternal life is an issue only in this life. It's no longer an issue after once entering into it. Thus, I believe it stands to reason that if it is not possessed in this life it cannot be possessed in the next. It's not as though one cannot know until the next life, which would be too late and insignificant.

com7fy8 said:
So, eternal life is not a thing of procrastinating until after we die. Also, it is not first about just lasting forever and being happy that we won't die and we will feel good; but there is the quality of God's own love in this life > having Heaven's goodness and pleasant rest (Matthew 11:28-30) and kindness making us all-loving like Jesus (Matthew 5:46), more and more as we grow in this . . . now, in this life.

Eternal life is the significance of eternal fellowship with God, because it cannot be done without it.

com7fy8 said:
Well, in my opinion, when we get resurrected in Jesus, our nature will be transformed more-so to be fully like Christ. During this life we get started > 1 John 4:17-18 < in being perfected in God's love so that "as He is, so are we in this world." But I understand that while we are in our physical bodies, our character won't be fully the way Jesus is. But in the resurrection we will reap so much more (Galatians 6:7-8) in our character and in the glorifying of our bodies so we shine brighter than the sun.

I see that those reborn still possess the old nature while possessing the new nature, and I believe the new nature cannot be increased nor detracted, but the old nature will be finally gone. Then we will continue to learn and live without sin's effect. Therefore, in our spirit and soul we are as saved as we will ever be, and as I think you've indicated, we will be without the hindrance of the old body and old nature. We've been redeemed in this life, and in the next life our bodies will be "redeemed" (Rom 8:23).

com7fy8 said:
But do you believe that we already will be started in eternal life . . . of God's love . . . before we are resurrected "unto" eternal life?

As I've mention in the OP (paragraph 1, line 2) the resurrection has only to do with the body. The spirit and soul are already changed.

com7fy8 · Apr 13, 2019

WordSword said:
I believe the new nature cannot be increased nor detracted,

WordSword said:
The spirit and soul are already changed.

We are told to grow in grace. I think this means in our spirit and soul we keep growing in how God's love has us become and therefore to live.

How we are in our spirit does come out. Jesus says out of the abundance of our hearts our mouths speak. So, I do believe we deeply need more and more change to mature in the nature of Jesus > Galatians 4:19.

And I consider Hebrews 12:4-14 > how God's correction in us changes us. I see this includes in our spirit and soul. This correction is spiritual, therefore changing our spirit and soul.

WordSword · Apr 13, 2019

com7fy8 said:
We are told to grow in grace. I think this means in our spirit and soul we keep growing in how God's love has us become and therefore to live.

How we are in our spirit does come out. Jesus says out of the abundance of our hearts our mouths speak. So, I do believe we deeply need more and more change to mature in the nature of Jesus > Galatians 4:19.

And I consider Hebrews 12:4-14 > how God's correction in us changes us. I see this includes in our spirit and soul. This correction is spiritual, therefore changing our spirit and soul.

The new nature we have of Christ (Col 3:10) doesn't change of grow because it's perfect, but the believer grows from it in their "walk" (Eph 4:15; 1Jhn 2:6).

WordSword · Apr 15, 2019

Dan1988 said:
The Bible says that everyone will be resurrected on judgement day. Believers will receive their new sinless glorified, eternal bodies and enter heaven. Those who died in their sin will be resurrected and receive their eternal corrupt bodies and cast into hell, to be tormented forever.

I agree, all will be resurrected in a new indestructible body (Jhn 5:28, 29), and the "damned" will remain corrupt in their soul, but the new body will endure an eternity of "torment" with the Enemy (Rev 20:10).

Dan1988 said:
The Bible is quite clear that nobody chooses heaven or hell, as we are all born dead in our sin. So nobody can make a decision to believe in their natural sate. God must regenerate us, or quicken us to life before we can receive spiritual things.

I also agree here, and I do not think how we believe salvation is received is as important as the fact of receiving it, but it's my understanding that it involves "asking," "seeking" and "opening" self to it (Mat 7:7). Myself, the entirety of Scripture demonstrates the choosing, e.g. "Tree of knowledge," also Deu 30:19; Jos 24:15. I believe everything we do (like and dislikes) is via choice.

I have no doubt that man has the natural ability to desire after God (as seen in the OT by men of God), but one can have this desire and not choose to selfishly proceed any further in asking God for salvation.

Dan1988 · Apr 15, 2019

WordSword said:
I also agree here, and I do not think how we believe salvation is received is as important as the fact of receiving it, but it's my understanding that it involves "asking," "seeking" and "opening" self to it (Mat 7:7). Myself, the entirety of Scripture demonstrates the choosing, e.g. "Tree of knowledge," also Deu 30:19; Jos 24:15. I believe everything we do (like and dislikes) is via choice.

I believe the bible doctrine of election is important, because it gives God all the glory for salvation. The "asking, "seeking" and opening ones self up to Christs lordship over our lives is also a gift which only the elect of God receive.

The Bible tells us that God chose His elect before He created the world, so He obviously knew that man would fall into sin. We are not told why God chose to save some and leave others in their sin, but we do know that everything God does is perfect and just.

Gods sovereignty over all things, including salvation is a hard thing for us fallen humans to understand. But the Bible makes it very clear that, God knows the whole of human history from the beginning to the end and nothing can happen outside of His sovereign will.

Many who don't believe in Gods sovereignty over all things, ask why God chose to save some and not everyone. My response is, why did He chose anyone at all since we all sinned and none of us deserve salvation.

This article below, explains the doctrine of Election and Reprobation quite well.
Divine Election and Reprobation

WordSword · Apr 16, 2019

Dan1988 said:
I believe the bible doctrine of election is important, because it gives God all the glory for salvation. The "asking, "seeking" and opening ones self up to Christs lordship over our lives is also a gift which only the elect of God receive.

The Bible tells us that God chose His elect before He created the world, so He obviously knew that man would fall into sin. We are not told why God chose to save some and leave others in their sin, but we do know that everything God does is perfect and just.

Thanks for your instructional reply, with which I like and mostly agree wit! It's still my understanding that I do not think it's a matter of God's choice of those to life in Him but more so man's choice of life in Him, which places Him beyond an appearance of prejudice (Job 34:19; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; 1Pe 1:17). Of course what one believes concerning this issue does not effect his salvific position in Christ and is thus related more to maturity in our faith.

Understanding God's omniscience best explains to me the doctrines of Election and Predestination. I think it could be considered that He elects and predestines via allowing to occur what He already knows we will choose. For example, when God is bringing one into this life He knows what they will choose, and thus know He is "fitting" (creating) one "for destruction," or for "vessels of mercy" (Rom 9:22, 23).

Dan1988 · Apr 17, 2019

WordSword said:
Thanks for your instructional reply, with which I like and mostly agree wit! It's still my understanding that I do not think it's a matter of God's choice of those to life in Him but more so man's choice of life in Him, which places Him beyond an appearance of prejudice (Job 34:19; Act 10:34; Rom 2:11; 1Pe 1:17). Of course what one believes concerning this issue does not effect his salvific position in Christ and is thus related more to maturity in our faith.

Understanding God's omniscience best explains to me the doctrines of Election and Predestination. I think it could be considered that He elects and predestines via allowing to occur what He already knows we will choose. For example, when God is bringing one into this life He knows what they will choose, and thus know He is "fitting" (creating) one "for destruction," or for "vessels of mercy" (Rom 9:22, 23).

God has revealed everything He wants us to know about Him, in the Holy Scriptures. I believe He withheld those things He didn't reveal about Himself for a good reason. His ways are infinitely higher than ours, so we wouldn't be able to grasp them even if He did reveal them.

I think election is one of those doctrines, so I'm quite happy to leave it in Gods hands. I've heard many different theories about it, but as you correctly stated it doesn't effect our salvation either way.

Sadly, the church is divided over this doctrine. I don't like being branded a "Calvinist", just because I believe what the Bible teaches about the sovereignty of God over all things.

The world is full of God haters and the last thing the church needs is internal conflict over Bible doctrines, which are not imperative to our salvation.

WordSword · Apr 17, 2019

Dan1988 said:
God has revealed everything He wants us to know about Him, in the Holy Scriptures. I believe He withheld those things He didn't reveal about Himself for a good reason. His ways are infinitely higher than ours, so we wouldn't be able to grasp them even if He did reveal them.

I think election is one of those doctrines, so I'm quite happy to leave it in Gods hands. I've heard many different theories about it, but as you correctly stated it doesn't effect our salvation either way.

Sadly, the church is divided over this doctrine. I don't like being branded a "Calvinist", just because I believe what the Bible teaches about the sovereignty of God over all things.

The world is full of God haters and the last thing the church needs is internal conflict over Bible doctrines, which are not imperative to our salvation.

Nice instructional reply Brother and thanks! Today I'm posting a short personal article on the carnal Christian, which contains that, in some degree or another all Christians will be affected by the sin nature ("old man"), and that God continues to use this and the new nature from Christ--by His Spirit (its Creator, i.e. "born of the Spirit") to unceasingly "conform" us in our walk (not in our salvation of course, which has always been complete).

It's my understanding that all who are genuinely reborn will continue to manifest it in their walk, per Phl 2:13.

God's blessings to our Families, and God be blessed for it!

Dan1988 · Apr 18, 2019

WordSword said:
Nice instructional reply Brother and tanks! Today I'm posting a short personal article on the carnal Christian, which contains that, in some degree or another all Christians will be affected by the sin nature ("old man"), and that God continues to use this and the new nature from Christ--by His Spirit (its Creator, i.e. "born of the Spirit") to unceasingly "conform" us in our walk (not in our salvation of course, which has always been complete).

It's my understanding that all who are genuinely reborn will continue to manifest it in their walk, per Phl 2:13.

God's blessings to our Families, and God be blessed for it!

You make a very good point here. I come from a family of five and I'm the only one who converted from Roman Catholicism to Christianity.

They are very judgmental of me and they always try to find faults in me. I tried to explain that we don't achieve sinless perfection, until we receive our glorified eternal sinless bodies.

I try to share the gospel with my relatives and friends at every opportunity, but none have taken it seriously yet. We migrated to Australia from Croatia where Roman Catholicism is the only accepted religion.

I'm sure there are saved people in the Catholic church, but they don't encourage anyone to study the Bible. My parents called the priest to come and talk some sense into me, telling him that I'd gone into some crazy sect.

I asked the priest many questions and he had a ready answer for every one of them. He gave me a book about how the major Christian denominations began. As I read through each chapter, they conclude with the name of the founder of that particular denomination. The last chapter was about Roman Catholicism and the book claims that Jesus Christ is it's founder.

The Bible says that God choose His elect before He made the world and that every single elect person will be saved, no matter what happens. So I pray for my family everyday and I try to bare a good witness, but that's all I can do. If God doesn't open their spiritual eyes, then they will be condemned to a lost eternity.

WordSword · Apr 18, 2019

Dan1988 said:
You make a very good point here. I come from a family of five and I'm the only one who converted from Roman Catholicism to Christianity.

They are very judgmental of me and they always try to find faults in me. I tried to explain that we don't achieve sinless perfection, until we receive our glorified eternal sinless bodies.

I try to share the gospel with my relatives and friends at every opportunity, but none have taken it seriously yet. We migrated to Australia from Croatia where Roman Catholicism is the only accepted religion.

I'm sure there are saved people in the Catholic church, but they don't encourage anyone to study the Bible. My parents called the priest to come and talk some sense into me, telling him that I'd gone into some crazy sect.

I asked the priest many questions and he had a ready answer for every one of them. He gave me a book about how the major Christian denominations began. As I read through each chapter, they conclude with the name of the founder of that particular denomination. The last chapter was about Roman Catholicism and the book claims that Jesus Christ is it's founder.

The Bible says that God choose His elect before He made the world and that every single elect person will be saved, no matter what happens. So I pray for my family everyday and I try to bare a good witness, but that's all I can do. If God doesn't open their spiritual eyes, then they will be condemned to a lost eternity.

I also have family that I think will not choose to be right with God in Christ, and continuing in the true Christian lifestyle, and prayer for them is all we can do in casting the cares of them on Him (1Pe 5:7) for our strength. We must know that any religion not living according the Scriptures is "anti-Christian," regardless of how much truth is mixed with error!

WordSword · Apr 18, 2019

com7fy8 said:
We are told to grow in grace. I think this means in our spirit and soul we keep growing in how God's love has us become and therefore to live.

How we are in our spirit does come out. Jesus says out of the abundance of our hearts our mouths speak. So, I do believe we deeply need more and more change to mature in the nature of Jesus > Galatians 4:19.

And I consider Hebrews 12:4-14 > how God's correction in us changes us. I see this includes in our spirit and soul. This correction is spiritual, therefore changing our spirit and soul.

Amen, and thanks for the useful reply!

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