Argument for God's existence.

createdtoworship · Apr 16, 2019

gaara4158 said:
No one asked for proof. I’ve asked for evidence, or at the very least a reason to believe. I can provide evidence or practical necessity for every belief I have. Can you provide anything at all for yours?

I will when you admit you use faith on a daily basis.

gaara4158 · Apr 16, 2019

gradyll said:
I will when you admit you use faith on a daily basis.

No. I just told you I have practical necessity and evidence behind my beliefs. I’m glad you recognize that faith is a bad thing to have and that’s why you’re trying to saddle me with it, though. That’s progress. But no, I don’t practice the sort of faith you’re appealing to when it comes to belief in your god. That’s all on you.

So I take your response to mean you can’t, or won’t, give any good reason to believe God exists. That’s fine, I didn’t think there was one.

createdtoworship · Apr 16, 2019

gaara4158 said:
No. I just told you I have practical necessity and evidence behind my beliefs. I’m glad you recognize that faith is a bad thing to have and that’s why you’re trying to saddle me with it, though. That’s progress. But no, I don’t practice the sort of faith you’re appealing to when it comes to belief in your god. That’s all on you.

So I take your response to mean you can’t, or won’t, give any good reason to believe God exists. That’s fine, I didn’t think there was one.

No you dont. You can't prove a single non mathematical fact to me or anyone else. It's impossible to prove anything, I have demonstrated this several times. Faith is not bad. Faith is our operating system for everyday life on every situation for nearly all sciences. Science uses faith every single day. We have faith that they made their observations and tests according to their hypothesis. So please by all means prove something to me so I know what you are asking for in myself. Pick a single fact that is well known and provable and prove it to us. My bet is that it won't work. So in conclusion I think it is hypocritical to ask for proof when you yourself cannot prove basic facts. (Other than mathematics). Don't tell me you don't use faith. You use it every day in nearly everything you do. When you get up, the first thing is you have faith in your legs that they will carry you to your alarm clock to turn it off. then you go to the coffee maker, and you have faith it will turn on and not malfunction and that it will brew you a morning cup of joe. Then you get into the shower, you have faith that the utilities got your check in the mail and didn't turn off your water over night. Then you get in your car and you have faith that you won't get a tire blowout on the way to work, so you leave with barely enough time to get there. IF you were not walking in faith you would have left earlier to accommodate for that extra hazard of a potential tire blowout. See you have used faith in nearly everything you did even before starting your job on a daily basis. Don't tell us you don't use faith.

HitchSlap · Apr 16, 2019

gradyll said:
No you dont. You can't prove a single non mathematical fact to me or anyone else. It's impossible to prove anything, I have demonstrated this several times. Faith is not bad. Faith is our operating system for everyday life on every situation for nearly all sciences. Science uses faith every single day. We have faith that they made their observations and tests according to their hypothesis. So please by all means prove something to me so I know what you are asking for in myself. Pick a single fact that is well known and provable and prove it to us. My bet is that it won't work. So in conclusion I think it is hypocritical to ask for proof when you yourself cannot prove basic facts. (Other than mathematics). Don't tell me you don't use faith. You use it every day in nearly everything you do. When you get up, the first thing is you have faith in your legs that they will carry you to your alarm clock to turn it off. then you go to the coffee maker, and you have faith it will turn on and not malfunction and that it will brew you a morning cup of joe. Then you get into the shower, you have faith that the utilities got your check in the mail and didn't turn off your water over night. Then you get in your car and you have faith that you won't get a tire blowout on the way to work, so you leave with barely enough time to get there. IF you were not walking in faith you would have left earlier to accommodate for that extra hazard of a potential tire blowout. See you have used faith in nearly everything you did even before starting your job on a daily basis. Don't tell us you don't use faith.

Are you serious?

createdtoworship · Apr 16, 2019

HitchSlap said:
Are you serious?

by all means, the invitation goes out to anyone. If you can prove a single fact to me, I will admit I was wrong about God, and wrong about my current theory that atheists use as much faith on a daily basis that theists do, maybe more. Now biblical faith and faith in God is something different, I know you don't have faith in those things, I am talking about faith in general.

HitchSlap · Apr 16, 2019

gradyll said:
by all means, the invitation goes out to anyone. If you can prove a single fact to me, I will admit I was wrong about God, and wrong about my current theory that atheists use as much faith on a daily basis that theists do, maybe more. Now biblical faith and faith in God is something different, I know you don't have faith in those things, I am talking about faith in general.

You’re conflating two definitions of faith. Are you aware of this?

ToddNotTodd · Apr 16, 2019

gradyll said:
No you dont. You can't prove a single non mathematical fact to me or anyone else. It's impossible to prove anything, I have demonstrated this several times. Faith is not bad. Faith is our operating system for everyday life on every situation for nearly all sciences. Science uses faith every single day. We have faith that they made their observations and tests according to their hypothesis. So please by all means prove something to me so I know what you are asking for in myself. Pick a single fact that is well known and provable and prove it to us. My bet is that it won't work. So in conclusion I think it is hypocritical to ask for proof when you yourself cannot prove basic facts. (Other than mathematics). Don't tell me you don't use faith. You use it every day in nearly everything you do. When you get up, the first thing is you have faith in your legs that they will carry you to your alarm clock to turn it off. then you go to the coffee maker, and you have faith it will turn on and not malfunction and that it will brew you a morning cup of joe. Then you get into the shower, you have faith that the utilities got your check in the mail and didn't turn off your water over night. Then you get in your car and you have faith that you won't get a tire blowout on the way to work, so you leave with barely enough time to get there. IF you were not walking in faith you would have left earlier to accommodate for that extra hazard of a potential tire blowout. See you have used faith in nearly everything you did even before starting your job on a daily basis. Don't tell us you don't use faith.

Soooo, has gaara4158 specifically asked for “proof”?

ToddNotTodd · Apr 16, 2019

gradyll said:
by all means, the invitation goes out to anyone. If you can prove a single fact to me, I will admit I was wrong about God, and wrong about my current theory that atheists use as much faith on a daily basis that theists do, maybe more. Now biblical faith and faith in God is something different, I know you don't have faith in those things, I am talking about faith in general.

Scientific Faith Is Different From Religious Faith

Tinker Grey · Apr 16, 2019

Well my sign-on is Tinker Grey. I think that counts as both a fact and proven/evidenced by this post. TADA!

HitchSlap · Apr 16, 2019

ToddNotTodd said:
Scientific Faith Is Different From Religious Faith

Great article. Thanks for posting that.

Ana the Ist · Apr 16, 2019

gradyll said:
Many people try to prove God's existence with irreducible complexity. But you don't even need to do that. All that is needed is this.... If you have a painting how do you prove there was a painter? It's inherent.

Ok.

If you see something made how do you prove there was a maker that made it? It's inherent. We don't even need to go into intelligence or creationism.

Ok.

I am simply talking about cause and effect. If you see something made, it had a maker, if you see something painted it had a painter.

Let's not confuse made/maker with cause/effect.

If a puddle forms on the ground where there was no puddle before, that doesn't mean someone "made" it. It could have just rained. The way to figure out which is true is through evidence.

The universe is here. So it boils down to the fact that it made itself from nothing, or something made it. Period.

Made itself? What about natural causes? What about a non-godlike creator? There's all sorts of possibilities that you're simply not considering.

The maker on the other hand would be supernatural, and prexisted time and space.

Why?

So there was no beginning to the maker.

So he "made himself"? Or did something else make him?

Time is a physical property that requires mass to operate according to Einsteins theory of relativity. If a maker was supernatural (beyond the physical universe), then it would naturally follow that He was beyond time as well. Because of the fact He superseded the physical universe.

Why? Where did this god exist before the universe began?

When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation.

Spontaneous generation? You mean abiogenesis?

gaara4158 · Apr 17, 2019

gradyll said:
No you dont. You can't prove a single non mathematical fact to me or anyone else. It's impossible to prove anything, I have demonstrated this several times. Faith is not bad. Faith is our operating system for everyday life on every situation for nearly all sciences. Science uses faith every single day. We have faith that they made their observations and tests according to their hypothesis. So please by all means prove something to me so I know what you are asking for in myself. Pick a single fact that is well known and provable and prove it to us. My bet is that it won't work. So in conclusion I think it is hypocritical to ask for proof when you yourself cannot prove basic facts. (Other than mathematics). Don't tell me you don't use faith. You use it every day in nearly everything you do. When you get up, the first thing is you have faith in your legs that they will carry you to your alarm clock to turn it off. then you go to the coffee maker, and you have faith it will turn on and not malfunction and that it will brew you a morning cup of joe. Then you get into the shower, you have faith that the utilities got your check in the mail and didn't turn off your water over night. Then you get in your car and you have faith that you won't get a tire blowout on the way to work, so you leave with barely enough time to get there. IF you were not walking in faith you would have left earlier to accommodate for that extra hazard of a potential tire blowout. See you have used faith in nearly everything you did even before starting your job on a daily basis. Don't tell us you don't use faith.

Again, never said I had proof. Evidence is different from proof. Confidence based on evidence is different from faith. So I’ll take your response as confirmation that you don’t have any good reasons to believe in God. Thank you for your transparency.

createdtoworship · Apr 17, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
Well my sign-on is Tinker Grey. I think that counts as both a fact and proven/evidenced by this post. TADA!

how do I know that what I see on my computer is what you see on your computer, versus what CF sees on their servers? It's not proven. You make many assumptions. You assume we all see the same things. You have faith that what is on the servers is what is on your computer. This is not something that is proven.

createdtoworship · Apr 17, 2019

gaara4158 said:
Again, never said I had proof. Evidence is different from proof. Confidence based on evidence is different from faith. So I’ll take your response as confirmation that you don’t have any good reasons to believe in God. Thank you for your transparency.

if it's not absolute proof then it's faith, period. It's simply not a blind faith, but a faith backed by evidence. The exact same type of faith christians use. So please, since you cannot prove even a simple fact, one basic fact, then please admit you use faith on a daily basis. It is important for you as a person to realize this fact, for your personal growth.

Blind faith can be practiced by anyone including atheists. Blind faith occurs when someone puts their faith into something without any proof.

HitchSlap · Apr 17, 2019

gradyll said:
how do I know that what I see on my computer is what you see on your computer, versus what CF sees on their servers? It's not proven. You make many assumptions. You assume we all see the same things. You have faith that what is on the servers is what is on your computer. Not proof of it.

When you look at Tinker Grey's post, do you see his name beside it?

HitchSlap · Apr 17, 2019

gradyll said:
Blind faith occurs when someone puts their faith into something without any proof.

Like resurrections?

gaara4158 · Apr 17, 2019

gradyll said:
if it's not absolute proof then it's faith, period. It's simply not a blind faith, but a faith backed by evidence. The exact same type of faith christians use. So please, since you cannot prove even a simple fact, one basic fact, then please admit you use faith on a daily basis. It is important for you as a person to realize this fact, for your personal growth.

Blind faith can be practiced by anyone including atheists. Blind faith occurs when someone puts their faith into something without any proof.

That’s a very silly and dichotomous way to define “faith,” and it’s certainly not the definition found in the dictionary. It seems like you’re using a special definition of faith just so you can shove fanciful delusions and scientific knowledge into the same category. This reeks of intellectual dishonesty, but I recognize this move from Ray Comfort’s repertoire. You can do better than this.

Now, recognizing that there is in fact a difference between beliefs supported by evidence and beliefs not supported by evidence, which sort of belief is your god-belief? So far it seems to be the latter.

createdtoworship · Apr 17, 2019

gaara4158 said:
That’s a very silly and dichotomous way to define “faith,” and it’s certainly not the definition found in the dictionary. It seems like you’re using a special definition of faith just so you can shove fanciful delusions and scientific knowledge into the same category. This reeks of intellectual dishonesty, but I recognize this move from Ray Comfort’s repertoire. You can do better than this.

Now, recognizing that there is in fact a difference between beliefs supported by evidence and beliefs not supported by evidence, which sort of belief is your god-belief? So far it seems to be the latter.

You cannot prove a single well known fact to me. Any fact for that matter. And yet you still think you are not walking by faith? If your views are not proven, aren't you believing them by faith? Faith is trust according to wikipedia. So you are trusting in something that is not proven. Not just some things, but every solid fact you believe, is actually held in your mind by faith.

createdtoworship · Apr 17, 2019

duplicate

gaara4158 · Apr 17, 2019

gradyll said:
I proved you use faith every day, see this post:
Argument for God's existence.
so if you have another definition lets hear it.

You broadened the definition of faith to include all beliefs that weren’t mathematically proven. That’s disingenuous. Do better.

Again, is your faith in God backed by evidence or not?

Argument for God's existence.

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