Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

fhansen

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We have to first realize and know "what we are", and be in fear of Him until then, cause that fear will bring you to the first point of truth, that the law is and shows... Anyway,and that first part of truth is: "who and what we are" (miserable sinful wretches, ect, of very little good use, or worth, or value, at that time, ect, bad most of the time, ect)...

That is "who or what we are", but, then, God also greatly wants us to know "how He see's us, anyway, in spite of or despite that", and that would be the other stuff you mention...

And it's a "mystery"... Being what we are, how can God, (or any "god/God", for that matter), "see" "us" the way they do, or He does... love us so very much despite or in spite of what we are, ect...

What we are, vs, How He see's us... (anyway, ect)...

And we should not ever forget either one, not forget who and what we are, but also not forget how He see's us anyway, despite that, ect... It's hard to hang onto both or be mindful of both at the same time, but that's what we must do and be mindful of though... Both truths must be solidified in our hearts, minds, person(s), and our very being, both, at the same time, all the time, lest we mess up or be messed up...

Maybe He see's some kind of "potential", who knows, but I think even greater than that is how He loves us even if we have no "good potential" in us or to us at all...

We try to figure it, or this out, this, us, and Him (and them), ect...

Can we figure it out though...?

What do you think...?

God Bless!
IDK. But I can't help but think that inside of every human being there's something very special and sacred, made in God's image, the image He wants to transform us fully into as Scripture tells us. And in our fallen, compromised, rebellious, and generally overly-prideful state, we pretty well fail miserly at hitting that mark, of living up to who we "should be". It seems to me that, by trying to be more than who he was, Adam fell to something much less, ironically. And God would've elevated him to an even higher state yet, had Adam obeyed, had He drawn nearer yet to God perhaps. But either way Adam may well have "arrived" by now, having taken the long way home, having put all of humanity on a detour, so to speak, into a world where we may at least learn well of our abject poverty when no longer in union with our Creator. I bet Adam learned that lesson, and had a change of heart at some point, the metanoia we all, like prodigals, have need of.

Anyway, God hates the evil man does, and the depths to which he fell, because He knows what He created us for, and who He created us to be. That's why He was so willing to save us-at such a cost. I appreciate some teachings I'm familiar with:

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in His own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek Him, to know Him, to love Him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of His family, the church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In His Son and through Him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, His adopted children and thus heirs of His blessed life.

27 The desire for God is written in the human heart, because man is created by God and for God; and God never ceases to draw man to Himself. Only in God will he find the truth and happiness he never stops searching for:
The dignity of man rests above all on the fact that he is called to communion with God. This invitation to converse with God is addressed to man as soon as he comes into being. For if man exists it is because God has created him through love, and through love continues to hold him in existence. He cannot live fully according to truth unless he freely acknowledges that love and entrusts himself to his creator.

356 Of all visible creatures only man is "able to know and love his creator". He is "the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake", and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God's own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity:
"What made you establish man in so great a dignity? Certainly the incalculable love by which you have looked on your creature in yourself! You are taken with love for her; for by love indeed you created her, by love you have given her a being capable of tasting your eternal Good."221

357 Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer Him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead.

358 God created everything for man, but man in turn was created to serve and love God and to offer all creation back to Him:
"What is it that is about to be created, that enjoys such honor? It is man that great and wonderful living creature, more precious in the eyes of God than all other creatures! For him the heavens and the earth, the sea and all the rest of creation exist. God attached so much importance to his salvation that he did not spare His own Son for the sake of man. Nor does he ever cease to work, trying every possible means, until he has raised man up to Himself and made Him sit at His right hand."223
 
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Kenny'sID

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All of you guys have seen several obvious ones,
but for some reason you don't want to accept them.
Most of my threads have some of them therein.
Here, you can make all the excuses you want about
not seeing any, but at the judgment ... no excuses!




I was very patient with a poster here, starting with my post 108, and did all I possibly could to help him understand what their mind refuses to see, and after all the time I spent doing so he realized the way it was going, he was not going to be able to deny what the scripture stated so instead of replying, he backed away completely...conversation ended abruptly.

Point being, they say they don't understand how scripture supports our end of this, but they do. The particular reaction to my mentioned post, showed beyond doubt, they do understand. Yet, they will continue to work very hard to pretend we have nothing to back ourselves up with. When someone wants what they want that badly, all we can do is try to help, and at least hope their actions will be example to others not to get caught up letting man/Satan get hold of them, and putting them into a complete state of denial, something that has been clearly evidenced in this thread.

I personally would read some of the bizarre, in denial, replies, atempted refutes of clear scripture, and be afraid to even think about getting into what they are into...it can be a bit scary to watch.

 
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Neogaia777

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I was very patient with a poster here, starting with my post 108, and did all I possibly could to help him understand what their mind refuses to see, and after all the time I spent doing so he realized the way it was going, he was not going to be able to deny what the scripture stated so instead of replying, he backed away completely...conversation ended abruptly.

Point being, they say they don't understand how scripture supports our end of this, but they do. The particular reaction to my mentioned post, showed beyond doubt, they do understand. Yet, they will continue to work very hard to pretend we have nothing to back ourselves up with. When someone wants what they want that badly, all we can do is try to help, and at least hope their actions will be example to others not to get caught up letting man/Satan get hold of them, and putting them into a complete state of denial, something that has been clearly evidenced in this thread.

I personally would read some of the bizarre, in denial, replies, atempted refutes of clear scripture, and be afraid to even think about getting into what they are into...it can be a bit scary to watch.

If that was in any way meant for me, and I don't mean to be rude or offend, but I'm just finding it pretty pointless to continue on with you, and for that I am sorry, but it is what it is...

Oh, and I'm guessing your not a sinner either right...?

In my opinion, it is you and those like you who "do not see" and are blind, miserable, poor (spiritually) and pitiable... Yet we still try to save you anyway...

I could go on and on, and into a lot of things, a lot of things, very, very wrong with you, (or your point of view), and those like you, but I just don't have the time, and at this point see it as pretty pointless effort also... And that is usually where I just give them a "friendly" and go on and move on...

At this point I don't know how to take you from your very wrong point of view right now, to the right one, so...

Oh and "scripture"...? What scripture do you want...? for I could "select" scripture, and maybe twist it a bit, to support both, or any or almost all views here, including both of ours, so what do you want...?

God Bless!
 
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Kenny'sID

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If that was in any way meant for me, and I don't mean to be rude or offend, but I'm just finding it pretty pointless to continue on with you, and for that I am sorry, but it is what it is...

Oh, and I'm guessing your not a sinner either right...?

In my opinion, it is you and those like you who "do not see" and are blind, miserable, poor (spiritually) and pitiable... Yet we still try to save you anyway...

I could go on and on, and into a lot of things, a lot of things, very, very wrong with you, (or your point of view), and those like you, but I just don't have the time, and at this point see it as pretty pointless effort also... And that is usually where I just give them a "friendly" and go on and move on...

At this point I don't know how to take you from your very wrong point of view right now, to the right one, so...

Oh and "scripture"...? What scripture do you want...? for I could "select" scripture, and maybe twist it a bit, to support both, or any or almost all views here, including both of ours, so what do you want...?

God Bless!

Yes it was meant for you, and as far as it being pointless to carry on, I know exactly why you refused to carry on, it's very clear, and there for anyone to see.
 
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Neogaia777

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I am not claiming that I have arrived or fully attained or gained (yet) or anything, but I do this so we can arrive or "whatever", together...

And, I've come to realize that I can't do it without you guys, so... In fact, I have at times refused to go further, for everyone that I would be leaving behind, ect...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Yes it was meant for you, and as far as it being pointless to carry on, I know exactly why you refused to carry on, it's very clear, and there for anyone to see.
Ok, let's talk...

Have you been saved for a long while or a little while now or what...?
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
Jesus talked about the this in the parable of the different soils and when the seed, the Word of God, fell upon them. Basically those who fall away from the faith, a very real faith as one cannot fall away from a faith one never has, do so because of either the difficulties of life or the pleasures of sin. This was particularly true in the description of those who receive the word with joy and faith, a plant, springs up. But persecution or the pleasures of this life cause them to abandon the faith as it is too costly. This is what I have seen in real people as well.

It is not lost instantly but happens slowly over time. Same as any relationship is generally lost slowly over time as the choices away from the other accumulate.

This is why Jesus told us to take care. He is not taking care for us. He is not keeping our faith secure. All the help we need is available but we have to want that help and ask for it.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Yep I am a prodigal son. Born again at 13, walked away for 11 years, technically should have lost my salvation, wonderfully restored due to prayer of others and God's great grace.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.
If you had kept walking away, you would have lost it. There are those who do. Jesus said at one point, there would be many who would fall away from the faith. It is not a minor glitch that does not matter.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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So, yes, I believe change is possible. ETA: I don't, however, believe you can lose your salvation.
Then there is nothing to lose that anyone knows about. So why are you so grateful when you believe you were not lost as being lost is not possible according to your last line?
 
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Dorothy Mae

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Legalists can loose Grace for the sake of following law.
But they can be salvaged.
Is loving God being a legalist? Do those who follow the legal command to love God with all their being lose grace thereby? Better not to follow the law to love God?
 
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Carl Emerson

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If you had kept walking away, you would have lost it. There are those who do. Jesus said at one point, there would be many who would fall away from the faith. It is not a minor glitch that does not matter.
No way... the fear of Him constrained me.

Any true believer has the fear of Him within.

At worst I would have forfeited eternal reward and kingdom blessings in this life, but not ultimate salvation.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I just don't know how to get on the same page with some of you...

God Bless!

Please, don't. You've already been very dishonest in your pretending not to have a clue what you did, why make it even worse and continue pretending? I did everything humanly possible to do exactly that, get on the same page, yet you conveniently ignore it then continue pretending you've no idea what's going on. Is telling the truth not a concern for you?

Stunning.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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No way... the fear of Him constrained me.

Any true believer has the fear of Him within.

At worst I would have forfeited eternal reward and kingdom blessings in this life, but not ultimate salvation.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.
If you had the fear of Him in your life then, how could you walk away? How come you were not "constrained for a time" so you couldn't? Were you a true believer while you had fallen away? If you weren't a true believer, how did you have the fear of him? The fear of him prevents us from sin, by the way. Does that describe the time you were away?

I know well the teaching of Once Saved Always Saved but that teaching is no where in the Bible. When Jesus said they fell away (or will fall away) it means lost. It does not mean "just less rewards."

Less rewards are already the future for those who hide the treasure he gave them and have no fruit in their lives.
 
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Neogaia777

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No way... the fear of Him constrained me.

Any true believer has the fear of Him within.

At worst I would have forfeited eternal reward and kingdom blessings in this life, but not ultimate salvation.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.
How can many "fall away" from what they never had in the first place, except maybe before men anyway, but, "God", or (truly) with God, not so much, with "some" of them... And if it was before men, I guess they might say that one had fallen away, if he fell (in their eyes) (or from their perspective or viewpoint) but then, I think they, or he, or she, never truly had it to begin with...

God Bless!
 
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Kenny'sID

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Is loving God being a legalist? Do those who follow the legal command to love God with all their being lose grace thereby? Better not to follow the law to love God?

That says it very well.

If we love God, feel we should be obedient to him, and do, we are hell bound legalists.

Shame on the bunch of us for not following the twisted version of Gods word from the one and only master of confusion.
 
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Dorothy Mae

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How can many "fall away" from what they never had in the first place, except maybe before men anyway, but, "God", or (truly) with God, not so much, with "some" of them... And if it was before men, I guess they might say that one had fallen away, if he fell (in their eyes) (or from their perspective or viewpoint) but then, I think they, or he, or she, never truly had it to begin with...

God Bless!
Jesus does not distinguish between "truly had" or "had" or "real believers" or believers. He said that many will fall away from the faith. They had to have to faith to fall away from it. And when they fall away from the faith and no longer believe, they are counted with the unbelievers. There are unbelievers and believers. There is no third category for those who were "once believers but confess they no longer are but God disagrees."
 
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Neogaia777

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Please, don't. You've already been very dishonest in your pretending not to have a clue what you did, why make it even worse and continue pretending? I did everything humanly possible to do exactly that, get on the same page, yet you conveniently ignore it then continue pretending you've no idea what's going on. Is telling the truth not a concern for you?

Stunning.
I really don't have a clue what's going on, or what "I" did (or didn't do), but I do suspect it was something and not nothing, but beyond that, I really don't know...

I'm just getting my downloads and orders from God and putting them on here, I don't know what anyone else is supposed to think of it, or about it, as I myself do not even know much of time, but it is what it is and I am what I am, and how God made me, ect...

God Bless!

God Bless!
 
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