John MacArthur explains easy-believism, grace-only, etc.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
You may like this video:

It was really helpful for me.

I'll listen to it while I work. Be back in an hour and 36.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
That would be helpful. I don't know of anyone indwelt by the Spirit but died Spiritually. The only one that I can think of, right now, would be King Saul.

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (as you mentioned) (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
Judas Iscariot (Psalms 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts of the Apostles 1:25)
Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19-20)

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
You may like this video:

It was really helpful for me.

8 minutes in and you're right, this guy is making perfect sense, thus I need to pay attention. I'll have to watch it later after I crunch the numbers....thank you, his teaching seems smooth, it seems right to my heart and is augmenting what God has shown me Himself outside of any teaching like this. So....this is very pleasing to me.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Whoa! Nice work! That's a copy and paste. This is the kind of material that I find to be useful and beneficial for explaining scriptures. Awesome....

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

BCsenior said:
C'mon, you're commenting all the time on
what people say about the message of the Bible!
His opinions are not worth talking about?
Or ... you don't want to give any credence to
anything he has said in the past or in the present?
Let's be truthful about this, okay?

I don't want to give credence to a man who knowingly teaches things that are unbiblical.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
8 minutes in and you're right, this guy is making perfect sense, thus I need to pay attention. I'll have to watch it later after I crunch the numbers....thank you, his teaching seems smooth, it seems right to my heart and is augmenting what God has shown me Himself outside of any teaching like this. So....this is very pleasing to me.

I hope God blesses you with it.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
Whoa! Nice work! That's a copy and paste. This is the kind of material that I find to be useful and beneficial for explaining scriptures. Awesome....

I store my really good articles and or quick points on Scripture in my Google Documents; These are things I have studied on my own and from resources from others. Sometimes its all original, and or other times it is bit of a mix.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

Thess said:
8 minutes in and you're right, this guy is making perfect sense, thus I need to pay attention. I'll have to watch it later after I crunch the numbers....thank you, his teaching seems smooth, it seems right to my heart and is augmenting what God has shown me Himself outside of any teaching like this. So....this is very pleasing to me.

You may also like this video, too.

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I don't want to give credence to a man who knowingly teaches things that are unbiblical.

Okay, that's what I thought ...
even though he was a different man back then.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I hope God blesses you with it.

God is, for sure. It's really cool to hear insight to things that I've been feverishly studying for a month now....I'm doing an exhaustive study on the Holy Spirit and the study seems to be the motherload of all studies, as in, "Why didn't someone force me to do this?" But I have been reading and re-reading and re-reading these passages. I must have read some of the same passages 15 times now, really putting things into my mind so as to understand, EXACTLY, what God wants me to know from His Word....and not the "word" of men. So, I don't listen to sermons or read commentary at all.

It's odd hearing my very own thoughts and ideas coming out of this man's mouth. I've never heard preaching like this, and yet it's exactly what I would expect to hear because what he is saying is crystal clear to me. One thing that God has impressed into my mind is that we humans are just focusing on the wrong things....and....we tend to make things very difficult to understand. I think we need to relax and start seeing the Gospel just as this guy does....IMO.

worshipjunkie · Apr 16, 2019

[Luk 13:24 NLT] 24 "Work hard to enter the narrow door to God's Kingdom, for many will try to enter but will fail.

Jesus is referring to the fewness of the saved. Many will try to enter in other ways then He has ordained and will be left out in the darkness. He has said we must be born again to be saved. Some try through works righteousness, others through a profession-only faith....the only way to salvation is through the Cross.

[Eph 4:3 NLT] 3 Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace.
[2Pe 1:5 NLT] 5 In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God's promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge,
[2Pe 3:14 NLT] 14 And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.

I quoted them together because they are all very similar. These verses refer to sanctification; the evidence of a new birth in someone's life. A true Christian will show works; not to be saved, but as a result of and evidence of salvation. "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)"

If you believe you can lose your salvation through sin, there's a couple of problems:

1. What works cause you to lose your salvation? How many do you have to commit? What is considered really bad, bad enough to cost you your soul, and what is considered just a weakness of human nature? It very naturally leads to the Catholic system of mortal and venial sin with very particular details as to what is a sin that can cost you your salvation; and there is major problems with that system. And of course, you can never be sure of your salvation. You always could have sinned bad enough to lose it, contrary to what Jesus teaches in John 10:26-29. Or you judge yourself as good enough to not have lost it, which has its own problems.

2. All that we are in Christ, all that salvation is, and we can just lose it? And gain it back again? And lose it again? We're a new creation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a child of God- and all that's out the window if we sin? How do we become un-born again? How do we go back from being a child of God to a child of wrath, and then a child of God again? How many times can you commit a serious sin and repent and what's the Scriptural evidence for it? It leads to the unmistakable conclusion that nothing God has done in our life has actually been done, but it's all potential, all waiting for us to maintain it. But Scripture says "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (Romans 11:29)" Also:

Jude 1:24 ESV
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy

2 Corinthians 1:22 ESV
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Timothy 2:19 ESV
But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2019

worshipjunkie said:
If you believe you can lose your salvation through sin, there's a couple of problems ...

The only "problem" as you see it ... is you have
to believe all of the NT warnings about sin! Dah.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I store my really good articles and or quick points on Scripture in my Google Documents; These are things I have studied on my own and from resources from others.

Nice work. I have tons of things going myself, even one Worksheet dedicated to new ideas and concepts that I think God has put into my head that I haven't quite found yet in the Bible. He's done this maybe a hundred times. God showed me His Holy Terror and immediately thereafter His even more Powerful Peace and Love....it was the Holy Terror that caused me to read the Bible in a whole new way, from a whole new perspective. I decided that when I read His Word, I cannot go on reading unless I understand what I am reading. I don't daydream anymore when reading. Instead, I realized that I was reading about my historical family as I began a Genesis, Chapter 1. I have been hanging on my seat through the history and bringing it all back to my incredible studies of Paul's writings immediately after the Spirit Consumed me. So as I go through the OT in chronological order, I am seeing the Mysterious Plan develop right before my eyes. Truly, it is a miracle of God that I can actually have a reasonable understanding of what, the Bible, is really trying to say to each of us.

Man, I just had no idea, yet had been in the church for 48.5 years, felt I was totally safe and secure by Christ alone....but I was totally lost. I've actually told people that the two things I know best is music and the Bible, specifically the New Testament. I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY believed what I thought of myself. I was completely, totally lost. Absolutely, 100% unaware and unable to listen or hear.

friend of · Apr 16, 2019

That's pretty much my understanding as well @worshipjunkie

And that's where I'd like to rest. Not doing stuff to be saved but working righteousness because we ARE saved.

Bible Highlighter · Apr 16, 2019

BCsenior said:
Okay, that's what I thought ...
even though he was a different man back then.

No he wasn't any different back then.

His other book called "Faith Works" came out near the time of the other book you are praising. He said on page 128 of the book called "Faith Works":

"Didn't David commit murder and adultery and allow his sin to go unconfessed for at least a year? Wasn't Lot characterized by worldly compromise in the midst of heinous sin? Yes, those examples prove that genuine believers are capable of the worst imaginable sins. But David and Lot cannot be made to serve as examples of "carnal" believers, whose whole lifestyle and appetites are no different from unregenerated people."

Book source:
https://www.amazon.com/Faith-Works-Gospel-According-Apostles/dp/0849908418

Not sure if you caught what he said but he is saying that David's lifestyle and appetites are no different from unregenerate people. He is saying that they are carnal believers. He is not saying David was unsaved at any point. MacArthur never taught Conditional Security where you can die spiritually.

Please learn more about this man before you praise one of his books.

Here is an article that you should read:
JOHN MACARTHUR UNSCRIPTURAL Grace To You

BCsenior · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
No he wasn't any different back then.
... MacArthur never taught Conditional Security where you can die spiritually.

The OP has plenty of Johnny's quotes where
he warns about Conditional Security!
He wrote the book in 1988/1994.

Guess what! ... For the past week or so ...
I've been telling people here that on every page,
Johnny Mac TRASHES grace-only, hyper-grace,
easy-believism, etc.
He repeatedly says that man is responsible
for his/her part of his/her salvation!
He is super BIG on faith means obedience.

I told you once before ... you've lost it, man!

I wish you'd start your own threads,
and stop cluttering up other people threads.

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

worshipjunkie said:
Jesus is referring to the fewness of the saved. Many will try to enter in other ways then He has ordained and will be left out in the darkness. He has said we must be born again to be saved. Some try through works righteousness, others through a profession-only faith....the only way to salvation is through the Cross.

I quoted them together because they are all very similar. These verses refer to sanctification; the evidence of a new birth in someone's life. A true Christian will show works; not to be saved, but as a result of and evidence of salvation. "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)"

If you believe you can lose your salvation through sin, there's a couple of problems:

1. What works cause you to lose your salvation? How many do you have to commit? What is considered really bad, bad enough to cost you your soul, and what is considered just a weakness of human nature? It very naturally leads to the Catholic system of mortal and venial sin with very particular details as to what is a sin that can cost you your salvation; and there is major problems with that system. And of course, you can never be sure of your salvation. You always could have sinned bad enough to lose it, contrary to what Jesus teaches in John 10:26-29. Or you judge yourself as good enough to not have lost it, which has its own problems.

2. All that we are in Christ, all that salvation is, and we can just lose it? And gain it back again? And lose it again? We're a new creation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a child of God- and all that's out the window if we sin? How do we become un-born again? How do we go back from being a child of God to a child of wrath, and then a child of God again? How many times can you commit a serious sin and repent and what's the Scriptural evidence for it? It leads to the unmistakable conclusion that nothing God has done in our life has actually been done, but it's all potential, all waiting for us to maintain it. But Scripture says "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. (Romans 11:29)" Also:

Jude 1:24 ESV
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy

2 Corinthians 1:22 ESV
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Timothy 2:19 ESV
But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Your bible has the same text as mine. It's just that simple....

Thess · Apr 16, 2019

BCsenior said:
The OP has plenty of Johnny's quotes where
he warns about Conditional Security!
He wrote the book in 1988/1994.

Guess what! ... For the past week or so ...
I've been telling people here that on every page,
Johnny Mac TRASHES grace-only, hyper-grace,
easy-believism, etc.
He repeatedly says that man is responsible
for his/her part of his/her salvation!
He is super BIG on faith means obedience.

I told you once before ... you've lost it, man!

I wish you'd start your own threads,
and stop cluttering up other people threads.

LOL - Haven't you heard? Those who start threads are basically making themselves a dart board.

Hang in there....this has been a really good thread, at least for me, so I really appreciate it a lot. Great job!

friend of · Apr 16, 2019

Jason0047 said:
For Christians are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ.

But then this kinda sounds like Jesus has nothing to do with what happens inbetween...

friend of · Apr 16, 2019

I am not defending Mcarthur here. However I noticed something in the way you read John's quote

Jason0047 said:
But David and Lot cannot be made to serve as examples of "carnal" believers, whose whole lifestyle and appetites are no different from unregenerated people."

I think he means the "carnal" believers live no differently than unregenerated. Not David himself living no differently. Notice the word I underlined.

John MacArthur explains easy-believism, grace-only, etc.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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