Intercession of the Saints

Moses was dead, yet appeared at the Transfiguration.

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Romans 8 said:

I agree with your family. Can you find people alive that can pray with you? Or, just pray to our father along with Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

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this isn't the place for this.

ArmyMatt said:

this isn't the place for this.

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Deleted, my apologies.

Romans 8 said:

Deleted, my apologies.

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no worries, it happens!

John 11:25-26

They are alive in Christ.

David Cabrera said:

Interesting, but wasn't that before the death of Christ? Were people always able to ask for intercession?

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That's a really good question, actually.

(Don't anybody jump on me, I believe in the intercession of the saints and I'm not teaching against it)

David Cabrera said:

Interesting, but wasn't that before the death of Christ? Were people always able to ask for intercession?

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yes, but since the death of Christ destroyed death, if the saints were aware before then, how much more now?

David Cabrera said:

Interesting, but wasn't that before the death of Christ? Were people always able to ask for intercession?

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Isn't there something ... maybe connected with Rachel? I think in Judaism (before Christ)?

I know the Jews prayed FOR the dead. But I'm thinking there was a reference to them also asking prayers?

But I probably wouldn't base too much on it either way. Israel got some theology wrong according to what Christ who more fully revealed God to us.

David Cabrera said:

Howdy! I am discussing with my family about the intercession of the Saints but they say that they are dead and "sleeping". Is there any verse I could use to help my case?

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In the vision of heaven at Revelation 6:

Rev 6:10 - And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

We see the righteous saints, alive, no ridiculous concept of "soul sleep", in the presence of God, crying out to Him. They are aware of what is happening on the earth else they would not know that they have not been avenged.

Yes the idea of "soul sleep" comes entirely from the euphemism in Scripture of "falling asleep" (and "sleeping with the fathers" and so on) I think. We even use that phrase continually in Orthodoxy, but we know it does not mean "to be unconscious". It's just a euphemism. They aren't "dead" in a sense either, because the soul continues. Only it is separated from the physical body, which dies.

~Anastasia~ said:

Isn't there something ... maybe connected with Rachel? I think in Judaism (before Christ)?

I know the Jews prayed FOR the dead. But I'm thinking there was a reference to them also asking prayers?

But I probably wouldn't base too much on it either way. Israel got some theology wrong according to what Christ who more fully revealed God to us.

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yes, the slaughter of the Holy Innocents by Herod.

David Cabrera said:

Interesting, I always viewed it as poetic.

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it is, but that doesn't mean it wasn't prophetic or real.

David Cabrera said:

Interesting, I always viewed it as poetic.

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ArmyMatt said:

it is, but that doesn't mean it wasn't prophetic or real.

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I think just as Jesus talked about the rich man and Father Abraham conversing in Hades ... whether you consider it a parable or not, I don't think Jesus would have even used such an example if souls were unconscious after death. So whether a parable or an actual account, I think it must be true in the sense that it is an accurate reflection of what souls might experience, at the very least.

~Anastasia~ said:

I think just as Jesus talked about the rich man and Father Abraham conversing in Hades ... whether you consider it a parable or not, I don't think Jesus would have even used such an example if souls were unconscious after death. So whether a parable or an actual account, I think it must be true in the sense that it is an accurate reflection of what souls might experience, at the very least.

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yep, Christ calls Himself the Truth after all.