Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

Carl Emerson said:

Not so - Jeremiah correctly predicted that the New Covenant to come would involve the fear of Him indwelling believers to prevent them falling away.

It is not for us to judge who the saved are, but those who are saved are sealed by the Fear of Him.

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Since we can't judge who's saved, we can't know with certainty who will persevere and who will not, who will fall away and who will not, who will retain their fear of Him and who will not. We can have a sound level of assurance, based on fruits such as faith, hope, love, fear of the Lord, acts of love for others, etc, but God, alone, knows with 100% certainty whose name is written in the Book of Life and whose is not, who will retain the seal and who will not. There are far too many warnings and admonitions in Scripture, to believers, to remain faithful, abide in Him, be vigilant, be perfect, be holy, strive, persevere, refrain from sin, invest ones talents, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc, etc, with loss of the kingdom generally at stake.

Neogaia777 said:

You didn't answer my question...?

What do you think it is today, or will be, or will take the form of in the future, ect...?

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I dont like making suppositions as to what it will be. That is always debatable

Neogaia777 said:

Ok, well, I was trying to have a discussion anyway, as I thought you maybe were too, ect...

God Bless!

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Ok ill let you know what i assume.

I assume it will be like the Verichip or a digital tattoo that you need to buy, sell or trade with if it is actually in your hand or head. Again i am only assuming if it is literal.

The bible doesnt specify exactly what it is. So mine is an assumption.

Jonathan Mathews said:

Sorry, I don't dual with a wet noodle. I dual with the Sword of the Spirit. You can go back and read the Scriptures I wrote and come back to me when you have Scriptures of your own and we'll see if you know how to handle the Sword.

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That's as good a reason as any to run off and not take responsibility, and then you have the nerve to make what you are doing sound all holy with your wording there.

Anyway, some of us know getting out is a fairly common response to not being able to hold up the the scrutiny, so bye now.

Neogaia777 said:

Look Earlier you were spouting you belief's about OSAS's ect, and that crowd, and whatever, and then later on, or just a minute ago, you told a "story" about being "brainwashed" or something, and I said to the first, and tried to explain, how I thought it was greatly dependent on one's point of view, ect, trying to engage in discussion, then, "then to the second", I said that "that" (story) was "most definitely dependent on a certain perspective or point of view" basically, and wasn't in any way trying to imply that everything is, or everything was, ect... You "assumed" or whatever, "whatever" or/and for whatever reasons, basically... (clearly "some bias or prejudice" though) (anyway)...

I was just trying to talk to you, was all, but whatever... I don't even know if your even capable of comprehending so...

God Bless!

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You were doing the opposite of trying to talk with the same one liner that basically said what we are talking about can't be argued so why argue? When that was absolutely not the case. My take, you couldn't answer to it so you tried to dismiss it, meaning, instead of trying to talk, you were trying to walk.

Neogaia777

The following scripture clearly tells me we can lose salvation by not acting right, does it tell you the same?

James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
"19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

fhansen said:

Since we can't judge who's saved, we can't know with certainty who will persevere and who will not, who will fall away and who will not, who will retain their fear of Him and who will not. We can have a sound level of assurance, based on fruits such as faith, hope, love, fear of the Lord, acts of love for others, etc, but God, alone, knows with 100% certainty whose name is written in the Book of Life and whose is not, who will retain the seal and who will not. There are far too many warnings and admonitions in Scripture, to believers, to remain faithful, abide in Him, be vigilant, be perfect, be holy, strive, persevere, refrain from sin, invest ones talents, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc, etc, with loss of the kingdom generally at stake.

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Not so - When you are born of the spirit, the Fear of Him seals you against the unforgivable sin. If you know you are born again you know you have eternal life. It has nothing to do with our perseverance or any other personal effort. To suggest that any of our works can save us is insulting Jesus by saying that what He did for us on the cross was somehow not good enough.
Sure our sins after salvation can effect our kingdom life but this has zero to do with Eternal Salvation.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

Neogaia777 said:

It does not clearly tell me that, no... In fact, it actually does not say anything about "acting right, or losing salvation cause we either did or did not do right" or accordingly or whatever, to me, at all...

But, "Who or what was the (original) cause" of that person turning a sinner back from their way, ect...?

And did they save themselves by doing so, ect...?

Who are the sinners it speaks of here also, and what kinds of sin or sins is it talking about...? What about those who are still sinning by works of the law and of the flesh, but do not see it...?

God Bless!

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The actual question:

Kenny'sID said:

The following scripture clearly tells me we can lose salvation by not acting right, does it tell you the same?

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So, right off you feel you need to in affect, add questions I didn't ask, to which there is no answer there, and to which I never claimed there was an answer in order to twist it into my being wrong as in, where did I say anything about saving themselves there? Not the worse thing one can do so we won't worry about, that's just to say, I will know when you put words in my mouth, and it would be a waste of time to do so. I'll also know when you are being contrary, but we can get past that too. Just thought youd like to know so we can save ourselves some time. If you don't think that will be a problem, then good, don't worry about it.

Now, here is the scripture I was referring to:

Kenny'sID said:

James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
"19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

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And here is your first set of questions/comments to my post:

Neogaia777 said:

It does not clearly tell me that, no... In fact, it actually does not say anything about "acting right, or losing salvation cause we either did or did not do right" or accordingly or whatever, to me, at all...

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You've made it clear there that i need to tell you I never claimed I'd use exact wording (I'll explain in a moment) but not a problem, maybe I can do something about that if we deem necessary. See I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt just like I would anyone, and assuming you are able to understand for instance, sinning would mean the same as not acting right once you consider the context, or even pretty much without further context, it means the same to many of us once just the subject is considered..

I can see already this is going to take a bit of time, and I'm off to bed, but need to know first if you are with me so far? To put it even more simply, are you in touch with how not acting right can mean the same thing as sinning, considering the subject/context and all? And if not how would you have me state that for instance because if you have enough of a problem with the terminology here, I may be able to help you by changing the structure of the question once we agree on a few things, or even use exact wording that may be a bit boring, but who cares, that's not what's important here. Fair enough?

And please don't take this the wrong way, I'm saying this because of how it appeared you truly did not understand some of my wording in your first comments to my post, and since this is all about making this work for the both of us, my suggestions are all i know to do, but by all means, if you disagree, I'm open for suggestion..

Don't worry, we'll get through this one way or another.

Carl Emerson said:

Not so - When you are born of the spirit, the Fear of Him seals you against the unforgivable sin. If you know you are born again you know you have eternal life. It has nothing to do with our perseverance or any other personal effort. To suggest that any of our works can save us is insulting Jesus by saying that what He did for us on the cross was somehow not good enough.
Sure our sins after salvation can effect our kingdom life but this has zero to do with Eternal Salvation.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

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Nonsense. God, like a good parent, wants you to assume responsibility. He wants you to own the justice He's imparted to you, a righteousness based on faith, to the extent your able, and increasingly, with His help. He's not looking to merely save a number of otherwise worthless wretches and damn the rest, for His "glory", supposedly, but He's looking to take something good that He's created and make it better yet, to perfect it. And our wills are necessarily involved in this process. He loves man lavishly, unconditionally, and desires none to perish but rather to blossom into the potential He's created them for. And in that process fear turns to love, and love produces obedience by its nature. Here's what Basil of Cesarea, an early believer, said:
If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.

From Adam on to ourselves today God has been patiently working through human history to produce something truly great in man, something in His own image. He didn't create junk. He doesn't do anything without a grand design in mind. Either way our love for God and neighbor is what sets us apart. And, no, we don't have 100% certainty of salvation-that's something we work out through the course of our lives with He who works in us.

Bless you brother, we will have to agree to disagree.

Thanks for your post.

Carl Emerson.

Carl Emerson said:

Not so - When you are born of the spirit, the Fear of Him seals you against the unforgivable sin. If you know you are born again you know you have eternal life. It has nothing to do with our perseverance or any other personal effort. To suggest that any of our works can save us is insulting Jesus by saying that what He did for us on the cross was somehow not good enough.
Sure our sins after salvation can effect our kingdom life but this has zero to do with Eternal Salvation.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

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I've never heard that before, about being sealed against the unforgivable sin?...What unforgivable sin do you refer to?

Mark 3:28–29, Matthew 12:31–32, and Luke 12:10.

All refer to a sin that is eternally unforgivable. This is the only way a believer could possibly loose salvation but the Fear of Him seals a believer against committing such a serious sin.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

Carl Emerson said:

Mark 3:28–29, Matthew 12:31–32, and Luke 12:10.

All refer to a sin that is eternally unforgivable. This is the only way a believer could possibly loose salvation but the Fear of Him seals a believer against committing such a serious sin.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

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Thanks, Carl. Seems you have it right, while these days, I'd dare say more than not believe the unforgivable sin is something completely different from what it is biblicly, hence my question.

Danthemailman said:

I'm still looking for a Bible verse that unequivocally says a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation,"
but am yet to find even one.

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All of you guys have seen several obvious ones,
but for some reason you don't want to accept them.
Most of my threads have some of them therein.
Here, you can make all the excuses you want about
not seeing any, but at the judgment ... no excuses!