Believers’ faith must endure until the end of their lives!

BNR32FAN

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What do you mean? Someone who doesn't understand His sovereign choice? Of course no one can understand God and His choice unless He is willing to reveal it to you...we are just human who cannot free ourselves from bandage to SIN unless for the kindness, and merciful God who provide us with a way out...So my friend, explain then to me how you interpret those verse you quoted so maybe I didn't understand...

Ok if you will please explain John 15:1-10 I will be happy to explain Romans 9. Paul contemplates the idea that God may have endured much patience on the vessels of wrath.

“What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭9:22‬ ‭NASB‬‬

This can also be supported by 2 Peter 3:9 although Peter says it with much more confidence.

“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 PETER‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭NASB‬‬

God being omniscient is able to know every possible outcome for each person even before creation and write their names in the book of life accordingly. The Greek word for predestinate also means to choose beforehand or preordain.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 also supports Peter’s statement that God desires all men to repent and be saved. So it doesn’t make much sense that while He desires all men to repent and be saved and of course God is omnipotent capable of all things that He would only save a portion of men. There are several ways that the idea of God’s elect does not make sense according to scriptures. First I would like to say that the early church never taught predestination.

Here’s a few questions to ask yourself.

Why did Jesus and the apostles tell people to believe if they are incapable of believing if they are not chosen and they are incapable of not believing if they are chosen? Either they are telling someone to do something that is impossible or they are telling someone to do something that they cannot fail to do regardless.

According to John 3:18 why are we judged according to whether or not we believe if God has not given those who do not believe the capability to believe? Ultimately that would make God responsible for everyone’s unbelief. This would make God unjust by judging people without making them capable of obeying. He might as well say if you swim to Jupiter and back you will be saved.

Now for my biggest question why does Jesus warn believers of receiving the consequences of failing to abide and bear fruit in John 15:1-10 if they are incapable of failing to do so? If predestination and eternal security is true then Jesus’ message here is useless.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Gods not made. Grace and grace alone
hey bro click the above words Gods not mad grace and grace alone

But He does have a wrath that according to the scriptures the sons of disobedience will face my friend. He will undoubtedly try to pull everyone towards Him but He won’t force anyone against their will. God desires our love. Love is the only gift we can give Him that is of any value. Love is a gift given freely. How valuable would that love be without free will? So He calls on all of us waiting patiently and longsuffering our transgressions so that the most who could possibly be saved would accept His grace and repent. Indeed God is love but this is a testing and training ground to cultivate believers who will love Him.
 
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dad

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Don't forget, Old Testament believers in God had their sins overlooked. Hardly any had the Spirit except the prophets.

Well, Nehemiah got swallowed by a fish, David was dealt with severely, Samson lost his strength and had his eyes put out, and Adam was cast out of the garden...etc. I would say His judgments were known back then too.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Well, Nehemiah got swallowed by a fish, David was dealt with severely, Samson lost his strength and had his eyes put out, and Adam was cast out of the garden...etc. I would say His judgments were known back then too.

Yes, but they were still saved. God chastises those He loves.

And by the way, Nehemiah? LOL Don't you mean Jonah?
 
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dad

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Yes, but they were still saved. God chastises those He loves.
That's the point, though we get chastised we will not lose our salvation. Though our works are burned, yet are we saved. Though we fall, yet are we not utterly cast down....
And by the way, Nehemiah? LOL Don't you mean Jonah?
Right..not sure what I was thinking.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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From the 1689 confession of faith;
Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saints
1._____ Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace,

but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon;

notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation,

where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.
( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )
2._____ This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )

3._____ And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.
( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )
 
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1stcenturylady

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Right, and some get booted right out of the pot to save their souls.

The ones looped off, or "booted right out of the pot" as you say are not saved as they have no fruit. That is John 15.

Now if you are referring to 1 Corinthians 5:5 "deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," that is the destruction of his carnal nature/flesh, not the death of his body, that he may become sorrowful, then through repentance, his soul can be saved. That is the context of the young man sleeping with his step-mother, but we see the rest of the story in 2 Corinthians where he repents, and Paul tells them to bring him back into the fold.
 
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pasifika

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Ok if you will please explain John 15:1-10 I will be happy to explain Romans 9. Paul contemplates the idea that God may have endured mucoh patience on the vessels of wrath.

“What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭9:22‬ ‭NASB‬‬

This can also be supported by 2 Peter 3:9 although Peter says it with much more confidence.

“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
‭‭2 PETER‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭NASB‬‬

God being omniscient is able to know every possible outcome for each person even before creation and write their names in the book of life accordingly. The Greek word for predestinate also means to choose beforehand or preordain.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 also supports Peter’s statement that God desires all men to repent and be saved. So it doesn’t make much sense that while He desires all men to repent and be saved and of course God is omnipotent capable of all things that He would only save a portion of men. There are several ways that the idea of God’s elect does not make sense according to scriptures. First I would like to say that the early church never taught predestination.

Here’s a few questions to ask yourself.

Why did Jesus and the apostles tell people to believe if they are incapable of believing if they are not chosen and they are incapable of not believing if they are chosen? Either they are telling someone to do something that is impossible or they are telling someone to do something that they cannot fail to do regardless.

According to John 3:18 why are we judged according to whether or not we believe if God has not given those who do not believe the capability to believe? Ultimately that would make God responsible for everyone’s unbelief. This would make God unjust by judging people without making them capable of obeying. He might as well say if you swim to Jupiter and back you will be saved.

Now for my biggest question why does Jesus warn believers of receiving the consequences of failing to abide and bear fruit in John 15:1-10 if they are incapable of failing to do so? If predestination and eternal security is true then Jesus’ message here is useless.
OK, John 15:1-10- Jesus is the true vine, Father is gardener, and we are the branches..The purpose of every fruit bearing tree is to bear fruit..where do you find fruit on a tree?... on the branches..In order for the believer to bear the fruit of God which is Christ in Us...We must receive His word into our heart,meaning we must understand who God is and who the Son is in order for us to believe. This not by our doing but it's the work of God...this chapter is just telling the believer so they can understand.. But, the actual work is DONE BY GOD...1Corins3:6,7
So...who prepare the vessels of wrath and mercy?

For 2Pet 3:9, You must understand who is Peter is speaking to... he is not speaking to the world but the Church because the church is His family (family of God)
Not the world...Remember all the NT writing is for the Church the "people of God"..Ephesians 3:6

John3:18, those who believe and those who don't...in order to answer your question, we must go back to the beginning of creation and the fall of man (Adam ) in Genesis...

God desire man to be His Image and likeness before creating him..Gen 1:26
But man chose to disobey God by listening to his wife Gen 3:17...and he became a slave to the serpent.
And in order to fulfill the original desire of God for man to be His Image and likeness He has to fulfill it according to His own Will but not man...
So from Adam to the end of this age...we have two groups of people one group are those born according to the Will of God(born of the Spirit) and the other is according to the will of man (born according to the flesh)...Romans 5:19
Those who are born according to His Will have a tendency to do what is good..these are the ones will eventually repented of their sins. ..
Well, the other group will continue their disobedient until the end...
This where the Election comes from "God's Sovereign choice"...is for God to bring up children who are just like Him..

For your biggest question; why does Jesus warn believers of the consequences of failing to abide and bear fruit if they are incapable to do so?

For those who have the Spirit will responded in fear of falling off and receive the consequences...so they will cry out to the Father not to let them fall off and ask for mercy to remain..because they know they are powerless to remain attached to Him (vine) by their own strength. This what is called faith..."knowledge of Christ" This group will abide or remain as the result of their faith

Again, the other group when they hear this message they will complain...God is not love, why did he have to punish us we cannot do it, why punish us????
these group have lack of knowledge of God and His Son...
No faith! Therefore will eventually fall off.
 
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1stcenturylady

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That's the point, though we get chastised we will not lose our salvation.

Don't you see, we must repent if we rebel against God? If we don't repent we could quench the Spirit so much that we could go back to perdition. Read Hebrews 10, and start sooner at 26 about those who sin willfully.

Hebrews 10:
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: (the promise is salvation and eternal life)

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

If a Christian draws away from Christ, he is drawn back to perdition - an unsaved state.

Though our works are burned, yet are we saved. Though we fall, yet are we not utterly cast down....

Again, I repeat, the works that are burned have to do with false doctrines in ministry, not fulfilling the lust of the flesh - willful sins. I think you are quoting your teachers, but not the context of that scripture. Go read 1 Corinthians 3.

For instance, there are born again Christian preachers that honestly believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, and believe speaking in tongues today has to be of the flesh or the devil. That type of teaching in unbelief will be burned, but they are still saved. As in 1 Corinthians 14:23 they are not in the class of the unsaved, but the class of the uninformed.

In other words, you don't have to be a Bible scholar and know everything the Spirit has to teach us in His Word to be saved. And if we keep yielding to the Spirit, in His time, He will correct our understanding and we keep learning, and perfecting.
 
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dad

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The ones looped off, or "booted right out of the pot" as you say are not saved as they have no fruit. That is John 15.
I was talking about the ones who had to die physically that there spirits would be saved. They get taken from this earth physically. Booted out if you will.
Now if you are referring to 1 Corinthians 5:5 "deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," that is the destruction of his carnal nature/flesh, not the death of his body, that he may become sorrowful, then through repentance, his soul can be saved. That is the context of the young man sleeping with his step-mother, but we see the rest of the story in 2 Corinthians where he repents, and Paul tells them to bring him back into the fold.
The destruction of the flesh is not some psychological change.

" 5. Besides excommunication (of which the Corinthians themselves had the power), Paul delegates here to the Corinthian Church his own special power as an apostle, of inflicting corporeal disease or death in punishment for sin ("to deliver to Satan such an one," that is, so heinous a sinner). For instances of this power, see Ac 5:1-11; 13:11; 1Ti 1:20. As Satan receives power at times to try the godly, as Job (Job 2:4-7) and Paul (2Co 12:7; compare also as to Peter, Lu 22:31), much more the ungodly. Satan, the "accuser of the brethren" (Re 12:10) and the "adversary" (1Pe 5:8), demands the sinner for punishment on account of sin (Zec 3:1). When God lets Satan have his way, He is said to "deliver the sinner unto Satan" (compare Ps 109:6). Here it is not finally; but for the affliction of the body with disease, and even death (1Co 11:30, 32"

1 Corinthians - Chapter 5 - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary on StudyLight.org

Ananias and his wife fell dead for sins, and another time a sorcerer was struck blind. So God's judgments can include death for believers to save their soul, or diseases etc. All so that we learn things and that or eternal fate is not affected.
 
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dad

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Don't you see, we must repent if we rebel against God? If we don't repent we could quench the Spirit so much that we could go back to perdition. Read Hebrews 10, and start sooner at 26 about those who sin willfully.

Hebrews 10:
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: (the promise is salvation and eternal life)
The will and work of God concerning salvation is to believe, and ask for it. The promise we will receive after we are already saved in not salvation.


37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

Of course God doesn't like it when saved folks fall and allow themselves to backslide. That causes no pleasure and in fact must result in Him taking some tough actions. Parents do not like having to discipline a child harshly. Nothing to do with the child no longer being their child, and nothing to do with salvation.
39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

If a Christian draws away from Christ, he is drawn back to perdition - an unsaved state.
No. Those who depart from God and His people and go back to what they love doing are just unbelievers/unsaved that tire of playing games. When saved we cannot go back, and these folks who go back to perdition never were saved from it!

Again, I repeat, the works that are burned have to do with false doctrines in ministry, not fulfilling the lust of the flesh - willful sins.
Well, maybe some started some great work they said was for God and supporting missions or something, but it turned out to be a big mess. It got burned. Big mistake. Works are not limited to 'false doctrines in ministry'. Maybe some preacher involved in a scandal, and his life work is ruined...etc etc. Maybe just about everything some folks did for God or thought they did for Him was shown to be a waste of time and useless. They are still saved.

For instance, there are born again Christian preachers that honestly believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, and believe speaking in tongues today has to be of the flesh or the devil. That type of teaching in unbelief will be burned, but they are still saved. As in 1 Corinthians 14:23 they are not in the class of the unsaved, but the class of the uninformed.
Now you are using verses to support things you have come to believe are cool. 'works being burned refers to those nasty priests down the road that don't like speaking in tongues or holy rollers'.

I think works is talking about actual works.
In other words, you don't have to be a Bible scholar and know everything the Spirit has to teach us in His Word to be saved.
True, even a 3 year old can get saved with a simple honest prayer.

And if we keep yielding to the Spirit, in His time, He will correct our understanding and we keep learning, and perfecting.
We are a work in progress, and keep learning. Salvation is not up for grabs, or something God is lurking around hoping to snatch back away from people.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I was talking about the ones who had to die physically that there spirits would be saved. They get taken from this earth physically. Booted out if you will.

What are you talking about - verses please.
I was talking about the ones who had to die physically that there spirits would be saved. They get taken from this earth physically. Booted out if you will.
The destruction of the flesh is not some psychological change.

" 5. Besides excommunication (of which the Corinthians themselves had the power), Paul delegates here to the Corinthian Church his own special power as an apostle, of inflicting corporeal disease or death in punishment for sin ("to deliver to Satan such an one," that is, so heinous a sinner). For instances of this power, see Ac 5:1-11; 13:11; 1Ti 1:20. As Satan receives power at times to try the godly, as Job (Job 2:4-7) and Paul (2Co 12:7; compare also as to Peter, Lu 22:31), much more the ungodly. Satan, the "accuser of the brethren" (Re 12:10) and the "adversary" (1Pe 5:8), demands the sinner for punishment on account of sin (Zec 3:1). When God lets Satan have his way, He is said to "deliver the sinner unto Satan" (compare Ps 109:6). Here it is not finally; but for the affliction of the body with disease, and even death (1Co 11:30, 32"

1 Corinthians - Chapter 5 - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary on StudyLight.org

Ananias and his wife fell dead for sins, and another time a sorcerer was struck blind. So God's judgments can include death for believers to save their soul, or diseases etc. All so that we learn things and that or eternal fate is not affected.

Are you thinking that Ananias and Sapphira went to heaven? Is that stated somewhere that they did? Not!

I printed your post because you've abbreviated all the texts so I'll have to manually look them up. If you type them out completely, all I would have had to do was mouse over to them and they would come up.
 
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dad

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What are you talking about - verses please.
In post 374 I answered that

"
" 5. Besides excommunication (of which the Corinthians themselves had the power), Paul delegates here to the Corinthian Church his own special power as an apostle, of inflicting corporeal disease or death in punishment for sin ("to deliver to Satan such an one," that is, so heinous a sinner). For instances of this power, see Ac 5:1-11; 13:11; 1Ti 1:20. As Satan receives power at times to try the godly, as Job (Job 2:4-7) and Paul (2Co 12:7; compare also as to Peter, Lu 22:31), much more the ungodly. Satan, the "accuser of the brethren" (Re 12:10) and the "adversary" (1Pe 5:8), demands the sinner for punishment on account of sin (Zec 3:1). When God lets Satan have his way, He is said to "deliver the sinner unto Satan" (compare Ps 109:6). Here it is not finally; but for the affliction of the body with disease, and even death (1Co 11:30, 32"

1 Corinthians - Chapter 5 - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown Commentary on StudyLight.org

Ananias and his wife fell dead for sins, and another time a sorcerer was struck blind. So God's judgments can include death for believers to save their soul, or diseases etc. All so that we learn things and that or eternal fate is not affected."



Are you thinking that Ananias and Sapphira went to heaven? Is that stated somewhere that they did? Not!
Sorry, since it doesn't say they went to hell why would I think God went back on His promise of eternal life? I mean should I think everyone that fudged their taxes a bit, or put in at work for a little more time than they actually worked, or lied to a police officer about the speed they were going when they got a ticket, or streamed a movie, or didn't go back to a cashier when they got too much change...etc etc etc etc...is going to hell and would lose eternal salvation if the had it?
I printed your post because you've abbreviated all the texts so I'll have to manually look them up. If you type them out completely, all I would have had to do was mouse over to them and they would come up.
Well, I guess you take these issues seriously.
 
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BNR32FAN

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OK, John 15:1-10- Jesus is the true vine, Father is gardener, and we are the branches..The purpose of every fruit bearing tree is to bear fruit..where do you find fruit on a tree?... on the branches..In order for the believer to bear the fruit of God which is Christ in Us...We must receive His word into our heart,meaning we must understand who God is and who the Son is in order for us to believe. This not by our doing but it's the work of God...this chapter is just telling the believer so they can understand.. But, the actual work is DONE BY GOD...1Corins3:6,7
So...who prepare the vessels of wrath and mercy?

For 2Pet 3:9, You must understand who is Peter is speaking to... he is not speaking to the world but the Church because the church is His family (family of God)
Not the world...Remember all the NT writing is for the Church the "people of God"..Ephesians 3:6

John3:18, those who believe and those who don't...in order to answer your question, we must go back to the beginning of creation and the fall of man (Adam ) in Genesis...

God desire man to be His Image and likeness before creating him..Gen 1:26
But man chose to disobey God by listening to his wife Gen 3:17...and he became a slave to the serpent.
And in order to fulfill the original desire of God for man to be His Image and likeness He has to fulfill it according to His own Will but not man...
So from Adam to the end of this age...we have two groups of people one group are those born according to the Will of God(born of the Spirit) and the other is according to the will of man (born according to the flesh)...Romans 5:19
Those who are born according to His Will have a tendency to do what is good..these are the ones will eventually repented of their sins. ..
Well, the other group will continue their disobedient until the end...
This where the Election comes from "God's Sovereign choice"...is for God to bring up children who are just like Him..

For your biggest question; why does Jesus warn believers of the consequences of failing to abide and bear fruit if they are incapable to do so?

For those who have the Spirit will responded in fear of falling off and receive the consequences...so they will cry out to the Father not to let them fall off and ask for mercy to remain..because they know they are powerless to remain attached to Him (vine) by their own strength. This what is called faith..."knowledge of Christ" This group will abide or remain as the result of their faith

Again, the other group when they hear this message they will complain...God is not love, why did he have to punish us we cannot do it, why punish us????
these group have lack of knowledge of God and His Son...
No faith! Therefore will eventually fall off.

Bless you friend but in the illustration Jesus gave us in John 15 we are not trees we are the branches that are attached to the vine which is Jesus Christ as stated in verse 5.

I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Verse 2 says The Father cuts off or removes every branch IN ME (Christ) that does not bear fruit.

Verse 4 Jesus says remain in Me. According to predestination and eternal security branches who are in Christ and attached to the vine which is Christ cannot fail to remain in Him. So why would Jesus tell them to remain in Him if they are incapable of falling away? Is He warning them of doing something that is impossible for them to do?

Verse 6 again according to predestination and eternal security would seem to be another warning even stating the consequences of doing the impossible failing to remain in Christ. A person cannot remain in Christ unless they are currently in Christ. The consequences in verse 2 and verse 6 indicate a loss of salvation as a result of failing to remain in Christ and failing to bear fruit. The consequences being they are cut off or removed from Christ, thrown away (without care or regard of one’s wellbeing) to wither (dry up and waste away) then thrown (again without care or regard) into the fire to be burned. The consequences given here result in the loss of salvation.

I will address the other questions in another post I would like to keep these separated just to make it easier. I prefer not to get too many subjects mixed up into one post. God bless:)
 
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Ananias and his wife fell dead for sins, and another time a sorcerer was struck blind. So God's judgments can include death for believers to save their soul, or diseases etc. All so that we learn things and that or eternal fate is not affected."

Acts 5:
Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

5 Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last.

Mark 3:29
but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”

Luke 12:10
“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.

Sorry, since it doesn't say they went to hell why would I think God went back on His promise of eternal life? I mean should I think everyone that fudged their taxes a bit, or put in at work for a little more time than they actually worked, or lied to a police officer about the speed they were going when they got a ticket, or streamed a movie, or didn't go back to a cashier when they got too much change...etc etc etc etc...is going to hell and would lose eternal salvation if the had it?

Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit and thought they could get away with it. Mark 3 and Luke 12 above shows they committed an unpardonable sin. And the sorcerer already belonged to Satan. He wasn't a Christian, but working against them. But if a Christian chose to become a sorcerer, he would also be damned as that would be a willful choice in rebellion against God.

This is what Paul says about receiving the promise of eternal life from a previous post. (Do you read the scriptures I send you to discuss?):

Hebrews 10:
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: (the promise is salvation and eternal life)

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

If a Christian draws away from Christ, he is drawn back to perdition - an unsaved state.

I also printed out that section from your commentary. (I have that one too in hardback c.1872) I like some of the old commentaries, to brainstorm and see how good they were at interpreting the word. I have a whole library of commentaries. This one - not so good on that passage.

I wrote notes all over the printed post. But I need a cup of tea. Will talk to you later.
 
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From the 1689 confession of faith ...
Any of those boys and girls have the baptism with
the Holy Spirit? Which is an anointing to give more
of the Spirit, more spiritual insight, more spiritual
understanding, more of everything, such as the
9 spiritual power gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12.

IMO, everyone in ministry back in the NT had it
i.e. those leaders in Ephesians 4:11.

This is available to any BAC!
Just believe it ... and ask Jesus for it.
Believe Matthew 7:7-11 ... and ...
please don't forget the persistent widow!
 
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