Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

Jonathan Mathews

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I find it strange that you are telling lies about loss of salvation by clearly twisting words, something I already explained, yet you call me Satan? Was I not telling the truth in that post with the explanation, and if not, can you please show me where I
erred so we can sort out who was lying and who was not?

Trapped by the holy spirit? Id be careful of these off the cuff comments, you know, the ones you make up on the spot because they sound wonderfully wise for the moment.

Do you have any idea how that sounds?

Also, are you saying as long as we have faith, nothing else is necessary to retain salvation, and we need not do good? Or, no matter what we cannot lose that salvation?

You told me me destination is Hell. You are a false accuser of the Brethren. I used plenty of Scriptures to express my Assurance in Jesus Christ, the Hope of my Salvation. I am wearing my helmet and wielding the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17). You have no such armor on, and you are wielding no Sword. So get behind me.
 
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Neogaia777

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Also, there is a difference between perception before, and perception after choosing to voluntarily become brainwashed out of selfishness.
That would also be a point of view or perception... Relative to such, ect...

God Bless!
 
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Kenny'sID

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You told me me destination is Hell. You are a false accuser of the Brethren. I used plenty of Scriptures to express my Assurance in Jesus Christ, the Hope of my Salvation. I am wearing my helmet and wielding the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17). You have no such armor on, and you are wielding no Sword. So get behind me.

No one is going to try to force you to answer the questions I asked, but when you do not, it only makes the point, you cannot answer, and that's huge in a debate. Even Jesus answered the questions posed to him by people as well as Satan.

Also, why do you refuse to see I have the armor of truth, and I know that because i asked you to prove otherwise, yet nothing. While you have clearly started this debate with an, at best, serious deception designed to defend OSAS, meaning you have not spoken the truth.

My point? Your logic has been affected, and not in a good way, and to the point you automatically think you are in the right, and don't bother using any logic at all to discern if you really are, or if what you claim about me being Satan for instance, is even true.

I've proven my end thus far, so how about you...Who is truly more like Satan here, me or you?
 
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Jonathan Mathews

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No one is going to try to force you to answer the questions I asked, but when you do not, it only makes the point, you cannot answer, and that's huge in a debate. Even Jesus answered the questions posed to him by people as well as Satan.

Also, why do you refuse to see I have the armor of truth, and I know that because i asked you to prove otherwise, yet nothing. While you have clearly started this debate with an, at best, serious deception designed to defend OSAS, meaning you have not spoken the truth.

My point? Your logic has been affected, and not in a good way, and to the point you automatically think you are in the right, and don't bother using any logic at all to discern if you really are, or if what you claim about me being Satan for instance, is even true.

I've proven my end thus far, so how about you...Who is truly more like Satan here, me or you?

You already have the Scriptures I wrote. What do they say?
 
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Kenny'sID

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That would also be a point of view or perception... Relative to such, ect...

God Bless!

Then the bible is just a point of view and simply cannot be beleived as fact and any opposing thought towards you will become a point of view so no sense debating any of it and everyone is right about the way it is. End sarcasm

Please, get real. I mean seriously, is that the best you can do?
 
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Carl Emerson

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It would be impossible if one had God's foreknowledge and could infallibly predict who the elect are, who will persevere and who will not, remaining in obedience, remaining in subjugation, abiding in faith, hope, and love, doing His will. Believing oneself to be saved isn't the same as ultimately being saved.
Not so - Jeremiah correctly predicted that the New Covenant to come would involve the fear of Him indwelling believers to prevent them falling away.

It is not for us to judge who the saved are, but those who are saved are sealed by the Fear of Him.

In this New Covenant, knowing that man can not attain to the Holiness of God, He prevents them from sinning to the point of loosing salvation by His indwelling fear.

This truth brings great peace and assurance to the saved.

We can, however, loose out on the blessings of the kingdom by straying from Him.
This results in missing out on Kingdom blessings in this life and eternal rewards in the next.

I quote again this passage to read...
Jer 32:40
“I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me..."

and
Jer 31:31 following
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

and
Isaiah 11...
Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.

And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;
But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth"

It is important to note in Isaiah 11, seven spirits are associated with the anointing of Jesus which believers receive when they are born again.

This also links to the Seven Spirits of God mentioned four times in the book of Revelation.

Folks worried about if their salvation is secure need to prayerfully consider these promises.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You already have the Scriptures I wrote. What do they say?

I'm sorry but way to many OSASr's want opposing posters to react to their comment, while not reacting at all to the opposing views as in answering questions, a very unfair exchange, and a my way or the highway concept that gets us nowhere as in it only brings attention to your side. I have in the past and will still refuse to do it that way, as it ends up a one sided debate, that is no debate at all.

So now we are stuck at: Your turn to do your part, or not, and your verses will not cover any of what I addressed.
 
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Neogaia777

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Then the bible is just a point of view and simply cannot be beleived as fact and any opposing thought towards you will become a point of view so no sense debating any of it and everyone is right about the way it is. End sarcasm
Uh, no... and sorry if you see it that way...

But, the things you and I were discussing and/or talking about though, do greatly depend on a, or ones own perspective and/or point of view however...

But the fact that you think that "all is", if that is the case, just shows your lack of understanding of the subject, and your ability to distinguish between when it is, or would be, and when it isn't, or is, or would not be, so much...

So sorry for you...

Anyway,

God Bless!
 
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Kenny'sID

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Uh, no... and sorry if you see it that way...

But, the things you and I were discussing and/or talking about though, do greatly depend on a, or ones own perspective and/or point of view however...

But the fact that you think that "all is", if that is the case, just shows your lack of understanding of the subject, and your ability to distinguish between when it is, or would be, and when it isn't, or is, or would not be, so much...

So sorry for you...

Anyway,

God Bless!

"It's your point of view" has passed from rational/useful comment to an irrational catch all excuse for not addressing the issues...plain and simple.

I think their logic is rubbing off on you so, tis I that am so sorry for you, my friend. :)
 
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Jonathan Mathews

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Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Since our Salvation is GOD Himself (Isaiah 12:2), the only way to lose "it" is to lose God Himself. But God's Presence in us (the Holy Spirit) is a Gift that God cannot "repent" of giving (Romans 11:29). Once you're KNOWN (to be inside of) by God, you cannot be "unknown". Once you're Born of God, you cannot be unborn. Once you are made a "new creation", you cannot be unmade. Judas lost Jesus because He never had GOD. He never had Salvation and that is why fell away from the Faith, the Way, who is Jesus Christ. The Word says he was a devil and Satan entered him. But the thief can only enter a house if they first bind the Strong Man (Mark 3:27). The Thief entered Judas because the Holy Spirit was not inside him, only Judas was, and the devil is stronger than men alone. The Word was very close to Judas, but Judas never had the Word "dwelling in [him] richly" (Colossians 3:16). Peter, however DID. Jesus said "Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in Heaven." and from Peter's heart came the Word saying "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God." Peter denied Christ and was STILL saved because Jesus Christ kept Him and the Word dwelt in Peter. Judas was not so. This is why he found no repentance after Jesus released Him to Satan and committed suicide (1 of the 3 unpardonable sins), for even repentance is a Gift of God.
 
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Jonathan Mathews

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I'm sorry but way to many OSASr's want opposing posters to react to their comment, while not reacting at all to the opposing views as in answering questions, a very unfair exchange, and a my way or the highway concept that gets us nowhere as in it only brings attention to your side. I have in the past and will still refuse to do it that way, as it ends up a one sided debate, that is no debate at all.

So now we are stuck at: Your turn to do your part, or not, and your verses will not cover any of what I addressed.

Sorry, I don't dual with a wet noodle. I dual with the Sword of the Spirit. You can go back and read the Scriptures I wrote and come back to me when you have Scriptures of your own and we'll see if you know how to handle the Sword.
 
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Neogaia777

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"It's your point of view" has passed from rational/useful comment to an irrational catch all excuse for not addressing the issues...plain and simple.

I think their logic is rubbing off on you so, tis I that am so sorry for you, my friend. :)
Look Earlier you were spouting you belief's about OSAS's ect, and that crowd, and whatever, and then later on, or just a minute ago, you told a "story" about being "brainwashed" or something, and I said to the first, and tried to explain, how I thought it was greatly dependent on one's point of view, ect, trying to engage in discussion, then, "then to the second", I said that "that" (story) was "most definitely dependent on a certain perspective or point of view" basically, and wasn't in any way trying to imply that everything is, or everything was, ect... You "assumed" or whatever, "whatever" or/and for whatever reasons, basically... (clearly "some bias or prejudice" though) (anyway)...

I was just trying to talk to you, was all, but whatever... I don't even know if your even capable of comprehending so...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Since our Salvation is GOD Himself (Isaiah 12:2), the only way to lose "it" is to lose God Himself. But God's Presence in us (the Holy Spirit) is a Gift that God cannot "repent" of giving (Romans 11:29). Once you're KNOWN (to be inside of) by God, you cannot be "unknown". Once you're Born of God, you cannot be unborn. Once you are made a "new creation", you cannot be unmade. Judas lost Jesus because He never had GOD. He never had Salvation and that is why fell away from the Faith, the Way, who is Jesus Christ. The Word says he was a devil and Satan entered him. But the thief can only enter a house if they first bind the Strong Man (Mark 3:27). The Thief entered Judas because the Holy Spirit was not inside him, only Judas was, and the devil is stronger than men alone. The Word was very close to Judas, but Judas never had the Word "dwelling in [him] richly" (Colossians 3:16). Peter, however DID. Jesus said "Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in Heaven." and from Peter's heart came the Word saying "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God." Peter denied Christ and was STILL saved because Jesus Christ kept Him and the Word dwelt in Peter. Judas was not so. This is why he found no repentance after Jesus released Him to Satan and committed suicide (1 of the 3 unpardonable sins), for even repentance is a Gift of God.
It a circular argument, and I knew that going in, and the question was kind of rhetorical anyway, but thanks for participating...

God Bless!
 
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Jonathan Mathews

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It a circular argument, and I knew that going in, and the question was kind of rhetorical anyway, but thanks for participating...

God Bless!

A man told me once "the only stupid question is the one you already know the answer to."
 
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Neogaia777

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A man told me once "the only stupid question is the one you already know the answer to."
Most of the time he would be right, except with a few exceptions...

God Bless!
 
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Jonathan Mathews

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Most of the time he would be right, except with a few exceptions...

God Bless!

You're right. Jesus asked questions that He already knew the answer to. And I love that about him.
 
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Natsumi Lam

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What do you think that is...?
Revelation 19:20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
 
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