What commandments is Jesus talking about?

yeshuaslavejeff

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I think you have our dual natures conflated to one. This is handled by Paul in Rom 7 and 8. John does this in 1 Jn 1-3.

Concerning sanctification - you either are or aren't. Sanctification isn't show as a process in Scripture.
Perhaps helpful (re sanctification)

Excerpt from "Finest of the Wheat" >>
"A minister of the word is one who has the revelation of Christ, one in whom God has been pleased to reveal His Son (see Gal. 1.16). It is more than that he just says this is so, but he inwardly knows that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. To say so takes only

440 The Finest of the Wheat (page break)

two or three minutes to recite, but the Lord says: “Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in the heavens.” To know Christ is better than to know words; it is a seeing. As one sees this vision of the Son of God everything but Christ recedes, be it sanctification, righteousness, or life. Out of this entire universe nothing can be compared with Christ; no spiritual thing can vie with Him, for Christ is all and in all.

Outside of Christ there is neither life nor light, sanctification nor righteousness. Once a man is brought by God into this revelation of Christ, he begins to realize there is nothing apart from Christ. Christ is everything: He is the Son of God as well as the word of God; He is love, sanctification, righteousness, salvation, redemption, deliverance, grace, light and work. He fills everything. All which we have seen in the past, however much it may be, fades away before Him. Nothing can stand its ground before this grand revelation. Moses and Elijah disappear, so do Peter, James, and John. The Lord Jesus alone remains. He fills all and is all. Christ is the center as well as the circumference. God’s center and periphery are found in Christ.

After a person passes through this basic experience of being brought by God to Christ for a true knowledge of His Son, he begins to know the word of God. Thus shall he be able to supply Christ. Without this revelation of Christ, no one is able to minister Him to others."
 
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mkgal1

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About sanctification and growing in the knowledge of God and His ways - His instruction? Even Jesus, Himself, grew in the knowledge of God (since He'd taken on our humanity and had "emptied Himself" as written in Phil 2:7).

Luke 2:39-52 ~ When they had completed everything according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth. The boy grew up and became strong, filled with wisdom, and God's grace was on Him. Every year His parents traveled to Jerusalem for the Passover Festival. When He was 12 years old, they went up according to the custom of the festival. After those days were over, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but His parents did not know it. Assuming He was in the traveling party, they went a day's journey. Then they began looking for Him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem to search for Him. After three days, they found Him in the temple complex sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. And all those who heard Him were astounded at His understanding and His answers. When His parents saw Him, they were astonished, and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for You." Why were you searching for Me?" He asked them. "Didn't you know that I had to be in My Father's house?" But they did not understand what He said to them. Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth and was obedient to them. His mother kept all these things in her heart. And Jesus continued to advance in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Hebrews 5:8-10 ~ Though He was God's Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. 9 And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him 10 and was designated by God as high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

I heard one pastor say something like, "Coming to Christ and taking off our old selves isn't like peeling a banana - it's more like peeling an onion". There are many layers.....and much knowledge for us to work out along with our false beliefs.
 
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mkgal1

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Thanks for sharing that page, @yeshuaslavejeff . I found this from that same site:


Quoting from Evangelist Thomas Cook: In a measure and to a certain extent the Christian is sanctified when he is regenerated. He is set apart for God. He is made a new creature in Christ Jesus [2 Corinthians 5:17]. A new and heavenly life is breathed into him by the Holy Spirit. He is translated out of darkness into marvelous light [1 Peter 2:9]. The dominion of sin is broken. The love of God is shed abroad in his heart [Romans 5:5], which is the incentive to obedience, and the germ of holiness. His desires, tastes, impulses, aims, and aspirations are all changed. He no longer “lives unto himself” [Romans 14:7], “his life is hid with Christ in God” [Colossians 3:3]. He has victory over the world and sin, enjoys inward peace, walks before God in newness of life, and, loving God, keeps His commandments.

Regeneration is holiness begun. Whatever is of the essence of holiness is found in germ in all who are children of God. But though all the elements of holiness are imparted, the work of inward renewal is only begun, not finished, by regeneration. On this point there is harmony of faith among all the Churches. They hold that regeneration does not free the soul from depravity. It introduces a power which checks the outbreaking of depravity into actual sin, but inward corruption remains, manifesting itself in a bias towards evil, in inclinations to sin, in a proneness to depart from God, “a bent to sinning.” Says Bishop Foster:3

Sin committed, and depravity felt, are very different; the one is an action, the other a state of the affections. The regenerate believer is saved from the one, and he has grace to enable him to have victory over the other; but the disposition itself to some extent remains, under the control of a stronger gracious power implanted, but still making resistance, and indicating actual presence, and needing to be entirely sanctified.

It is by no means uncommon for persons to imagine at the time of forgiveness that depravity is completely destroyed. The change is so great, even as “from death unto life,” that the work of moral renovation seems perfect. The love and gladness of the newborn soul is so overflowing, as for a time to create the impression that the heart is entirely cleansed. ~ New Birth and Entire Sanctification: Ch. 5 of “New Testament Holiness” | Finest of the Wheat
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Thanks for sharing that page, @yeshuaslavejeff . I found this from that same site:
....
I don't know about Thomas ..... (i.e. subject to testing/ proving) .....

Look okay for now ,

though everything must be tested and proven in line with all Scripure before accepting it. .....
 
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mkgal1

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....
I don't know about Thomas ..... (i.e. subject to testing/ proving) .....

Look okay for now ,

though everything must be tested and proven in line with all Scripure before accepting it. .....
Fair enough. I agree that everything must be tested and in line with all Scripture. I don't see anything "off" in what I'd shared, however.
 
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ace of hearts

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I can agree that the controversy was about more than circumcision or else the apostles, elders, and whole church wouldn't have come to this decision as to the resolution (the essential requirements given are directly from the Law of God):

Acts 15:19-21 ~ 19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God.20 Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood. 21 For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

Why did you bold verse 21 above?
Acts 15:23-29 ~
“The apostles and the elders, your brothers,
To the brothers among the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 It has come to our attention that some went out from us without our authorizationc and unsettled your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose men to send you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to tell you in person the same things we are writing you.

28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29 You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.”
 
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ace of hearts

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Correct. There were loads of laws pertaining to the Levitical priesthood that no longer applied since the priesthood was transferred to Jesus, our High Priest in the order of Melchizedek (whose priesthood is eternal and everlasting). He is the Lamb....He is the final sacrifice necessary....all of that pointed to Him and was then fulfilled. There was no further need for the Temple nor the human priesthood. Those were the laws that I believe were changed. The law never made a person complete. Those Temple practices covered sin....Jesus took away the sin of this world (but that's not a license to sin - our sins still carry their own consequences with them - that's not changed).
You seem to say the Christians is still obligated to the law. Why? Jesus says you can only access the Father thru Him.
The debate seems to be a lot like the debate in this very thread. The Judaizer *believers* (notice that the text does say they were a part of the early church - they weren't outsiders or non believing Jews) seemed to desire some sort of outward acknowledgement of belief from the Gentile believers. But the council realized (seems to me, anyway) that walking in His spirit is a process.....and doesn't manifest immediately....and they were confident that leading them away from their pagan idolatry practices was the priority (and seemed reassured that the weekly synagogue readings of the Law of Moses were going to help lead them in God's instruction and truth).
Do you attend the Jewish synagogue? If not why not? If not when did this requirement change?
 
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ace of hearts

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That's why I made an issue about the word translated to "change" in our Bibles - and how the root word means "transfer". Jesus, Himself, said He didn't come to *abolish* the Law, but to fulfill the Law and the words of the Prophets. Others here in this thread seem to disagree with Him. He's written the Law on our hearts - how can we be completely separated from it?
Jeremiah doesn't say the covenant made with Israel is transferred to anyone's heart.
 
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ace of hearts

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As usual, Tall73 is much more articulate than I am - so I wanted to re-share his post here. See the distinction? We are either "walking in the Spirit" (as the Galatian believers started off) or "under the law" (we are ALL guided by something - God or our idols/fear).

He is a seminary graduate.
 
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ace of hearts

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So if you were a male, the laws of menstruation would apply to you? If you were a female, the laws concerning the priests would apply to you? Give me a break...
You are set free from the CURSE of the law.
Not only am I free from the curse of the law, I 'm also free from the requirements of the law. You make the law nothing more than instruction. The law is a hard requirement.
 
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ace of hearts

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This was posted:

.....and the response was:


....is Jesus still saying "You shall not commit adultery" or not? This response (and all the others like it) seem to be missing that point. Jesus is retaining the same original instruction - He's just making it MORE stringent (not just an external behavior, but a heart attitude change as well). To abolish a law - it would mean it's no longer in affect. That would mean adultery is okay and acceptable (and I'm personally convinced Jesus was NOT stating that).​
Jesus changed the law. Jesus didn't change what sin is, He added to what sin is.
 
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ace of hearts

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About sanctification and growing in the knowledge of God and His ways - His instruction? Even Jesus, Himself, grew in the knowledge of God (since He'd taken on our humanity and had "emptied Himself" as written in Phil 2:7).

Luke 2:39-52 ~ When they had completed everything according to the law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth. The boy grew up and became strong, filled with wisdom, and God's grace was on Him. Every year His parents traveled to Jerusalem for the Passover Festival. When He was 12 years old, they went up according to the custom of the festival. After those days were over, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but His parents did not know it. Assuming He was in the traveling party, they went a day's journey. Then they began looking for Him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem to search for Him. After three days, they found Him in the temple complex sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. And all those who heard Him were astounded at His understanding and His answers. When His parents saw Him, they were astonished, and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for You." Why were you searching for Me?" He asked them. "Didn't you know that I had to be in My Father's house?" But they did not understand what He said to them. Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth and was obedient to them. His mother kept all these things in her heart. And Jesus continued to advance in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Hebrews 5:8-10 ~ Though He was God's Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. 9 And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him 10 and was designated by God as high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

I heard one pastor say something like, "Coming to Christ and taking off our old selves isn't like peeling a banana - it's more like peeling an onion". There are many layers.....and much knowledge for us to work out along with our false beliefs.
Maybe you could define sanctification and give Scripture support about sanctify.
 
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BABerean2

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Those were the laws that I believe were changed.

Based on the verse below the 10 commandments are the Sinai Covenant.
The Apostle Paul never divided the Law of Moses in any of his letters.


Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


Based on the verses below the 4th commandment has been fulfilled in Christ.
It was the "sign" of the Sinai Covenant.


Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Do you believe the 4th commandment is still to be observed as a day of the week?
.

.
 
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BABerean2

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Jesus is retaining the same original instruction

A sexual act between an unmarried man and woman under the Old Covenant was adultery.

Under the New Covenant, a man viewing inappropriate contentography is guilty of adultery.

They are not the same instruction, if Jesus said "But I say..."


How many modern Christians are guilty of the second and believe they are not breaking the 10 commandments?


.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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A sexual act between an unmarried man and woman under the Old Covenant was adultery.

Under the New Covenant, a man viewing inappropriate contentography is guilty of adultery.

They are not the same instruction, if Jesus said "But I say..."


How many modern Christians are guilty of the second and believe they are not breaking the 10 commandments?


.

And yet under the NC that same physical act is STILL adultery...as well as even thinking of it.
 
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ace of hearts

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And yet under the NC that same physical act is STILL adultery...as well as even thinking of it.
So you seem to think abstinence is following the law. Why? Many non religious people do as you require with out reference to the Bible.
 
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mkgal1

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And yet under the NC that same physical act is STILL adultery...as well as even thinking of it.
@BABerean2 - now I'm really confused as to what your argument is, since you rated Yeshua HaDerekh's post here as a "winner".
57564577_10218788993107050_8213272737599193088_n.jpg 57289429_10218788993347056_775606845241819136_n.jpg
Earlier you'd kept emphasizing a *change* in the Law (and continued to use this example about adultery). My point has been that this isn't a *change* - it's revealing the heart attitude that results in this righteous outward behavior (which was desired all along).

Did you read Tall73's posts?
 
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mkgal1

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How many modern Christians are guilty of the second and believe they are not breaking the 10 commandments?
Without further explanation - this would appear to be even GREATER bondage than the original law (that you've repeated is a "yoke of bondage"). If a yoke is too heavy to bear - and one ADDS even more to it - that makes it an even greater burden to bear. You're going to have to do some explaining, instead of just repeatedly posting the same passages over and over again, because so far.....you've not formed much of an argument.
 
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mkgal1

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I'm re-sharing Tall73's post below - as it seems to have maybe been overlooked:

In the old covenant the promises were

God: Make you of all nations a special people, make you a nation of priests, etc.
People: We will do all the Lord has said.

God kept His promises. The people did not. Therefore the weakness of the old covenant was in the fact the people did not keep their promises.

However, while the old covenant is a suzerainty covenant with imposed regulations on the people, the new covenant is not based on the promises of the people. It is unilateral. God is the one who writes the law on the heart and in the mind. It is not dependent on the people's ability to do it.

In this way it is far better. The law is still involved. But it is not the law on the stone tablets, but Christ Himself living in us by His Spirit to do in us what our sinful flesh could never do. Now to Romans 7 where this is spelled out in more detail.


7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and saidb]">[b]:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”c]">[c]


13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
I believe it's worth going back to page 76 and reading all that Tall73 shared....but this post is a good place to begin.
 
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klutedavid

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And yet under the NC that same physical act is STILL adultery...as well as even thinking of it.
Which proves that your a law breaker and everyone else is also. So why bind people to a written law that no one has a ghost of a chance of obeying?

Jesus destroyed that law of sin and death; which means that you will not die even though you do sin.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

The power of the law (sin and death) was nullified, the law can no longer condemn you, you will no longer die even if you do do sin.

The perfect sacrifice fulfilled everything that was required of us and to the letter, we have the righteousness of Christ. We thank Jesus now and rejoice that we are now the elect, the chosen, and we are loved by Him.
 
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