Voodoo Around the World

Natsumi Lam · Apr 13, 2019

Cis.jd said:
Ok, so lets say your literal interpretation is correct and curses/voodoo is real and there is a supernatural source/outcome.. how are we still alive, especially since this has existed since the BC era?

Also, why is it that you had a problem understanding how saints or any person in heaven can have "abilities" like being a protector or interceding yet fully believe evil beings --beings fully disconnected rebelliously from God- have superpowers. You are telling me God gave evil powers while the good ones are completely muted doesn't that logically contradict the holiness taught about God?

I dont have a problem with saints having abilities...it is not biblically supported so i dont believe it.

It is very bad form to bring criticism from another thread into this one or any for that matter. Low blow.

Demons have powers ...they were created with them ie Lucifer. There is no indication in the entire word that saints in new bodies share the same talents as they do on earth. No where in the word. On the other hand my response is supported in the word.

Everyone is not dead because the restrainer is still present. Also God set rules in play...ones i only know according to the Word...the others God and the Enemy know. See Job

Cis.jd · Apr 14, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
I dont have a problem with saints having abilities...it is not biblically supported so i dont believe it.

It is very bad form to bring criticism from another thread into this one or any for that matter. Low blow.

Demons have powers ...they were created with them ie Lucifer. There is no indication in the entire word that saints in new bodies share the same talents as they do on earth. No where in the word. On the other hand my response is supported in the word.

Everyone is not dead because the restrainer is still present. Also God set rules in play...ones i only know according to the Word...the others God and the Enemy know. See Job

But don't you see how logically problematic that is? You believe that demons have powers and all this movie stuff about voodoo, yet you can't believe about Saints --people who are fully connected to God-- because of your view that it isn't biblically supported. So technically, due to "biblical support", God supports demons/evil more than he does with good because how do they have this much power? The only logical reason is that they where given it. Why? Also, where in the Bible does it say they were created by Lucifer, and how does he have that power when he is evil and rebelled against God?

At the same time, you are still being held to answer as to how we are still aiive if voodoo and curses are (supernaturally) real. With the billions of people that exist now, added with each year going back to BC -- with each persons in that quantity having anger towards someone or a group, mathematically speaking there is no logical way we'd exist to this day.

Swan7 · Apr 14, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Proverbs 26:2. What if a curse is deserved?

Well, according to the Bible, as born again Christians we are not under a curse but grace given to us (those who accept Him) by Jesus Christ. God does not curse us, remember when Adam and Eve sinned by disobedience? God cursed the ground and not them. God also did not curse Cain when he killed his brother, but instead cast him out and put a sign on him so if he was found, he would not be killed: Genesis 4. God does not curse his creation made in His image.

Does this answer your question? I dunno if I understood it in the way you were thinking.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 14, 2019

Swan7 said:
Well, according to the Bible, as born again Christians we are not under a curse but grace given to us (those who accept Him) by Jesus Christ. God does not curse us, remember when Adam and Eve sinned by disobedience? God cursed the ground and not them. God also did not curse Cain when he killed his brother, but instead cast him out and put a sign on him so if he was found, he would not be killed: Genesis 4. God does not curse his creation made in His image.

Does this answer your question? I dunno if I understood it in the way you were thinking.

That is of the curse of the law. It is a different curse i am refering to.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 14, 2019

Cis.jd said:
But don't you see how logically problematic that is? You believe that demons have powers and all this movie stuff about voodoo, yet you can't believe about Saints --people who are fully connected to God-- because of your view that it isn't biblically supported. So technically, due to "biblical support", God supports demons/evil more than he does with good because how do they have this much power? The only logical reason is that they where given it. Why? Also, where in the Bible does it say they were created by Lucifer, and how does he have that power when he is evil and rebelled against God?

At the same time, you are still being held to answer as to how we are still aiive if voodoo and curses are (supernaturally) real. With the billions of people that exist now, added with each year going back to BC -- with each persons in that quantity having anger towards someone or a group, mathematically speaking there is no logical way we'd exist to this day.

I answered as to why we are still alive.

"Also God set rules in play...ones i only know according to the Word...the others God and the Enemy know. See Job"

I do not accept the saints having abilities we can access. I know biblically demons have abilities.

Lucifer did not create the demons or abilities.

Saints do not have power according to word as far as being biblically supported. We do under His authority. The angels and demons have power biblically under His allowance.

Cis.jd · Apr 14, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
I answered as to why we are still alive.

"Also God set rules in play...ones i only know according to the Word...the others God and the Enemy know. See Job"

This tells me nothing as to how we are still alive if curses are true. Can you explain why this verse is relevant to answering as to how we (including countries with no Judeo Christian influences) are still alive. Take in account the population from the BC to the present time, with the amount of people who had whatever negative emotions towards someone.

I do not accept the saints having abilities we can access. I know biblically demons have abilities.

Lucifer did not create the demons or abilities.

Saints do not have power according to word as far as being biblically supported. We do under His authority. The angels and demons have power biblically under His allowance.

So demons have power due to God's allowing while Saints are incapable of even just praying for those on earth. This is like a President arming terrorists with weapons while banning his citizens from helping each other, yet you are going to convince someone that this "president" is holy and good because of sentences in the bible?

Natsumi Lam · Apr 14, 2019

Cis.jd said:
This tells me nothing as to how we are still alive if curses are true. Can you explain why this verse is relevant to answering as to how we (including countries with no Judeo Christian influences) are still alive. Take in account the population from the BC to the present time, with the amount of people who had whatever negative emotions towards someone.

So demons have power due to God's allowing while Saints are incapable of even just praying for those on earth. This is like a President arming terrorists with weapons while banning his citizens from helping each other, yet you are going to convince someone that this "president" is holy and good because of sentences in the bible?

Im not sure how you are not comprehending that there are certain things God allows satan to do. He doesnt have free reign. We can see that with Jesus in the desert and Job. Go on a mizsions trip to Africa and you will see it in action.

There is no biblical support that saints have abilities like we do on earth that we can access. There is biblical support of my claim.

That is all.

Cis.jd · Apr 14, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
Im not sure how you are not comprehending that there are certain things God allows satan to do. He doesnt have free reign. We can see that with Jesus in the desert and Job. Go on a mizsions trip to Africa and you will see it in action.

There is no biblical support that saints have abilities like we do on earth that we can access. There is biblical support of my claim.

That is all.

I understand what you are saying, but i'm asking you to logically defend it because it makes no sense. How do you rationally defend a good and holy God if his people can't even pray for each other after the physical life, yet entities who are evil are given powers by him. That is what I am asking. I'm not asking you about what you think the Bible says, i'm asking you on the logic of your beliefs. You are going into different directions in your answers and at the same time these answers are completely illiterate to what I've asked in how we are all still alive.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 14, 2019

Cis.jd said:
I understand what you are saying, but i'm asking you to logically defend it because it makes no sense. How do you rationally defend a good and holy God if his people can't even pray for each other after the physical life, yet entities who are evil are given powers by him. That is what I am asking. I'm not asking you about what you think the Bible says, i'm asking you on the logic of your beliefs. You are going into different directions in your answers and at the same time these answers are completely illiterate to what I've asked in how we are all still alive.

My logic: mine is in the bible. Ex Job.

Yours is not.

QED

But i will explain further:

As far as why we are not dead. There are certain rules biblically that God shows in His word where Satan is on a leash. Ex Job. Satan is a dog on a leash. We know some examples biblically of how God allowed Satan and His minions to afflict man. Other rules that are not in the Bible are known by God and the Enemy. If the HS reveals it to man...then we will know and have more insight. There are rules..some we know ...some we dont.

I am not understanding why you are confused. My logic is completely bible based. Yours is not. Why would i have to defend a supposition that saints dont have abilities. No where in the Word does it say they do or that we can access them. Nothing to defend. Saints having accessable abilities after they passed on is not in the Word; however, examples of how the Enemy is allowed to do certain things is in the Word. What do you expect human logic to accomplish if the Word is clear?

The Bible provides examples of powers and abilities the Enemy has. Again the BIBLE does. God is good but He set up rules and powers ...some we know of the Enemy...some we dont.

Ex of Afflictions
1. Job
2. Legion
3. Demon causing epilepsy
4. Deaf and dumb
5.etc

Ex of satanic abilities
Lucifer being a musician

Ex of Saints passed on having abilities we can access
NONE

We fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities...powers... Eph 6

Natsumi Lam · Apr 14, 2019

https://www.faithwire.com/2019/04/13/from-witchcraft-to-worship/

Gregory Thompson · Apr 14, 2019

No Username Found said:
In regards to the things mentioned above. It doesn't matter what god, energy, or power they are worshiping or using. All these practices try to call upon or "manipulate" some power or energy to accomplish some goal or task. They are called various things and have various names. They are all demonic. The wiccan "god/goddess of the earth, wind, water, ect..."? A demon. Performing some voodoo hex? You are calling upon a demon to cause harm. Worshiping a pagan god? Worshiping a demon. Are you starting to understand the pattern? They are all demonic powers or entities that are being called or worshiped to achieve a goal. Even those who practice divination by using tarot cards, Ouija board, or other mediums to communicate with the dead or predict the future are demonic. After a person dies, their soul goes to either heaven or hell. There is no in-between. Demons are spiritual beings who can take any form they choose. They can appear benevolent and kind. Even Lucifer in his true form would be so beautiful that people could easily confuse him to be God. But he isn't. The point is that demons don't care what you believe as long as you don't believe in the one true God. Demons will even do rather nice things and perform healing miracles as long as God is not worshiped.

In regard to rape and molestation, not evil is demonic. There is deliberate evil that a person creates through their own volition, evil caused by demonic principalities and powers, systematic evil caused by organizations and governments, and even natural evil like tornadoes, famine, plagues, ect. So not all rape and molestation is caused by demons. I would argue that most are deliberate evil cause by fallen human beings who willfully chose to create it. But some may be caused by either someone under the direct control of a demon (possession) or by a demon influencing the actions of the human they are attached to. I believe these are found when rape and molestation are as part of some cultic ritual or practice. When someone is raped or molested because the perpetrator was trying to please some demonic power.

See above.

No, God does not influence it. He allows it. To say otherwise is to suggest that somehow God is powerless to stop or prevent it. That God is not omnipotent and sovereign. Because God is omnibenevolent, whatever evil God allows to a believer would be ultimately intended for a good purpose. Like allowing Jesus to be betrayed by Judas so that prophesy can be fulfilled and atonement for sin is achieved. Joseph is another example of God using evil for good purposes:
Genesis 50:19-21
"19 But Joseph said to them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. 21 So then, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your children." And he reassured them and spoke kindly to them."

I agree. See above paragraph regarding the different types of evil.

I recall this idea, it's a scripture with a worldly philosophy foundation excavated by culture moving on.

Cis.jd · Apr 15, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
My logic: mine is in the bible. Ex Job.

Yours is not.

QED

But i will explain further:

As far as why we are not dead. There are certain rules biblically that God shows in His word where Satan is on a leash. Ex Job. Satan is a dog on a leash. We know some examples biblically of how God allowed Satan and His minions to afflict man. Other rules that are not in the Bible are known by God and the Enemy. If the HS reveals it to man...then we will know and have more insight. There are rules..some we know ...some we dont.

I am not understanding why you are confused. My logic is completely bible based. Yours is not. Why would i have to defend a supposition that saints dont have abilities. No where in the Word does it say they do or that we can access them. Nothing to defend. Saints having accessable abilities after they passed on is not in the Word; however, examples of how the Enemy is allowed to do certain things is in the Word. What do you expect human logic to accomplish if the Word is clear?

The Bible provides examples of powers and abilities the Enemy has. Again the BIBLE does. God is good but He set up rules and powers ...some we know of the Enemy...some we dont.

Ex of Afflictions
1. Job
2. Legion
3. Demon causing epilepsy
4. Deaf and dumb
5.etc

Ex of satanic abilities
Lucifer being a musician

Ex of Saints passed on having abilities we can access
NONE

We fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities...powers... Eph 6

One of the worst things Christians here do is use the Bible as a cop out when they can't rationalize their arguments. When asked to provide an intelligent explanation the answer: "the bible" which is really why so many have left christianity.

Your answer with using Job is very bad and it doesn't even connect to the context of what i've asked. Not only does the book of Job have 0 relation to anybody casting voodoo on one another, it is not regarded as a true story but a moral. This is about a moral trying to show hope in during someones difficult times not about infliction for vengeance or greed. So your answer with Job is irrelevant to the question.

Additionally, it doesn't even go into the logic hole i showed you in regards to your disbelief on saints. As said, it being in the Bible isn't what I'm asking. I'm asking you to logically explain how God is a holy/good God if he arms evil yet doesn't give his people (who are connected to him in Heaven) even just the ability to pray for each other. So how can a logical thinking non-christian ever see God as good just based on your views?

Natsumi Lam · Apr 15, 2019

1. From this standpoint nonchristians WOULD see God in a bad light. I am not trying to hide that fact. I never tried to conceal it.

2. The bible is never a cop out. It is our foundation we have to go to at ground zero. It is not my fault you have a broken foundation. Logic is to go to your foundation which is the Word.

3. Job was used as an example of demonic power and how the enemy is on a tether. Not for voodoo. Btw you dont "cast voodoo" on another. Its hard to talk basic with someone if they dont know the basics. Just know an undeserved curse has no effect Prov 26:2. If it is deserved it has an effect. Only God and the Enemy know when it is deserved unless the HS reveals it...ie keeping accursed objects( detestable duet 7:26 devoted things josh 6:18). Please also see Duet 18...spell casting is an abomination.

Cis.jd · Apr 15, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
1. From this standpoint nonchristians WOULD see God in a bad light. I am not trying to hide that fact. I never tried to conceal it.

2. The bible is never a cop out. It is our foundation we have to go to at ground zero. It is not my fault you have a broken foundation. Logic is to go to your foundation which is the Word.

3. Job was used as an example of demonic power and how the enemy is on a tether. Not for voodoo. Btw you dont "cast voodoo" on another. Its hard to talk basic with someone if they dont know the basics. Just know an undeserved curse has no effect Prov 26:2. If it is deserved it has an effect. Only God and the Enemy know when it is deserved unless the HS reveals it...ie keeping accursed objects( detestable duet 7:26 devoted things josh 6:18). Please also see Duet 18...spell casting is an abomination.

1. You are supposed to present God in a good light.
2. The way you used it to answer my question was a cop out.
3. The topic is on voodoo and all the black magic-demon power stuff that we've been talking about. Job is a moral that is meant to be a message to those who are going through difficult times, why you are associating this with magic (which is the point of my arguments) clarifies the #2 on you using the Bible as a cop out answer because clearly you didn't get what I was saying in the first place.

Now what you don't see is that you created a massive logic flaw in your own stance just by your previous topics. There is no rational person who will ever see God in a good light if you are saying the Bible tells you that he gives demons power to inflict on people while Saints who have given their lives to him are completely incapable of interceding for christians who are still making their way out of the physical life.
You don't even need to be a non-christian to see God negatively in that.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 15, 2019

Cis.jd said:
1. You are supposed to present God in a good light.
2. The way you used it to answer my question was a cop out.
3. The topic is on voodoo and all the black magic-demon power stuff that we've been talking about. Job is a moral that is meant to be a message to those who are going through difficult times, why you are associating this with magic (which is the point of my arguments) clarifies the #2 on you using the Bible as a cop out answer because clearly you didn't get what I was saying in the first place.

Now what you don't see is that you created a massive logic flaw in your own stance just by your previous topics. There is no rational person who will ever see God in a good light if you are saying the Bible tells you that he gives demons power to inflict on people while Saints who have given their lives to him are completely incapable of interceding for christians who are still making their way out of the physical life.
You don't even need to be a non-christian to see God negatively in that.

1. God is not always in a good light..where does it say we must?

2. Not a cop out. The bible is not a cop out.

3. Job did not have to do with magick. I am relating it to Satan on a leash and cosmic rules. Just because that is how Job speaks to you as a moral for difficult times... does not mean that it doesnt means different things to different people. I see it as a cosmic battlefield relating to Eph 6

4. Not my fault if they see God killing people for witchcraft and other sins. He also opened up the ground and killed tons of people. He is multifaceted.

5. Not my fault if you think the Word is a cop out

Cis.jd · Apr 15, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
1. God is not always in a good light..where does it say we must?

2. Not a cop out. The bible is not a cop out.

3. Job did not have to do with magick. I am relating it to Satan on a leash and cosmic rules. Just because that is how Job speaks to you as a moral for difficult times... does not mean that it doesnt means different things to different people. I see it as a cosmic battlefield relating to Eph 6

4. Not my fault if they see God killing people for witchcraft and other sins. He also opened up the ground and killed tons of people. He is multifaceted.

5. Not my fault if you think the Word is a cop out

1. Because one of the things Jesus says is that "he is the light of the world". He is the light/hope in a world that is filled with darkness. Matt 5 says we must let this "light" shine in other words we are supposed to share and inform a message of an actual God who is hope and is all good. I can't believe you asked this question.

2. It's a cop out. Your usage of the bible is the cop out. Again, with understanding what you are reading.

3. So then why are you bringing it up on an argument about black magic (voodoo). This is why your Job reference is irrelevant and the fact that you went "my logic is the bible - job" in answering my argument against Voodoo clarifies #2. The cop out answer that christians here use to cover their lack of knowledge on real things.

4. It is your fault because you are presenting it wrong. Christianity isn't an unintelligent religion therefore being logical and showing reason in explaining certain passages and what is going on is necessary. If you can't do that and just go "the Bible" as a single answer, than you are using it as a cop out.

5. Here you go again not understanding what I am saying in context.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 15, 2019

Cis.jd said:
1. Because one of the things Jesus says is that "he is the light of the world". He is the light/hope in a world that is filled with darkness. Matt 5 says we must let this "light" shine in other words we are supposed to share and inform a message of an actual God who is hope and is all good. I can't believe you asked this question.

2. It's a cop out. Your usage of the bible is the cop out. Again, with understanding what you are reading.

3. So then why are you bringing it up on an argument about black magic (voodoo). This is why your Job reference is irrelevant and the fact that you went "my logic is the bible - job" in answering my argument against Voodoo clarifies #2. The cop out answer that christians here use to cover their lack of knowledge on real things.

4. It is your fault because you are presenting it wrong. Christianity isn't an unintelligent religion therefore being logical and showing reason in explaining certain passages and what is going on is necessary. If you can't do that and just go "the Bible" as a single answer, than you are using it as a cop out.

5. Here you go again not understanding what I am saying in context.

1. God is also a God of justice. Example the Red Sea. Noah. Samson..the list goes on. Justice can be seen as love too. Depends how you look at it. If you are doing a subject study on Gods justice it will appear that He is evil. But in actuality He knows what is best. You can choose how you look at it.

Isaiah says 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.

2. Believe what you will about cop outs

3. Who really cares about my logic...its what the Word says that matters.

James 3:10 blessings and curses from the same mouth.

Pretty much i can thoroughly see you just want the last words so you keep repeating.

Are we done now?

Natsumi Lam · Apr 15, 2019

Questions to ask ones self to examine your walk and authority in Christ Jesus.

1. Do you know the Lord?

2. Are you living a biblical life

3. Are you taking proactive measures to fight the fight not against flesh and blood

4. Do you know where your authority originates?

5. Are you taking authority?

Cis.jd · Apr 16, 2019

Natsumi Lam said:
1. God is also a God of justice. Example the Red Sea. Noah. Samson..the list goes on. Justice can be seen as love too. Depends how you look at it. If you are doing a subject study on Gods justice it will appear that He is evil. But in actuality He knows what is best. You can choose how you look at it.

Isaiah says 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.

2. Believe what you will about cop outs

3. Who really cares about my logic...its what the Word says that matters.

James 3:10 blessings and curses from the same mouth.

Pretty much i can thoroughly see you just want the last words so you keep repeating.

Are we done now?

1. Based on this, you need to look up what Justice means.
2. no need to respond to this
3. But this also shows you are misrepresenting the Word. If you are going to talk nonsense and then go "this is what the Bible says" as as "safe guard" towards invalidity then you are using it as a cop out.

Natsumi Lam · Apr 16, 2019

Cis.jd said:
1. Based on this, you need to look up what Justice means.
2. no need to respond to this
3. But this also shows you are misrepresenting the Word. If you are going to talk nonsense and then go "this is what the Bible says" as as "safe guard" towards invalidity then you are using it as a cop out.

What does justice mean to you? Example Noah and the Flood? Sodom and Ghmorrah? The Red Sea? Samson.

I define it as just behavior or treatment.

I define just as based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.

Do you believe God's justice is an evil or fair thing?

You can look at God in a bad light cuz He is just or in a good light cuz he is just.

We dont have to view it either way. It is our choice how we take it.

Personally it can be both accepting His love and knowing He thumps people on the head.

Isaiah says 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I, the Lord, do all these things.

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