Choosing a good college, help!

Mary Meg

Any large university will have a wonderful mix of people.

No need to fear college.
Instead ... Enjoy, grow, thrive!!

I loved college. I wish I could do all that stuff all over again!!

Most 1st year students drown in freedom. They do not have personal discipline. There is no-one forcing them to go to class, or to do assignments. If you do not work hard. you will fail. But if you do work hard, you will prosper!!

Success is up to you. And surely the Lord will guide you, if you keep him as Priority #1.

Blessings!

@Mary Meg:

In terms of taking a New Testament class, be cognizant of the biases that the instructor or text will have. This will color what they teach as "evidence," a liberal New Testament scholar is essentially an expert on his own biases and filtering evidence to suit them. Don't take everything they teach as Gospel truth.

Mary Meg said:

It's a pretty overwhelming decision, especially knowing so much is riding on it. Do you think it's true that a larger university is likely to have more of a mix of people and so more people like me? Or can a whole university tend towards liberal or conservative?

I'm pretty conservative but I would say open-minded. It doesn't offend me to hear other, even non-Christian viewpoints, but I don't want to feel like things are being shoved down my throat or like I'm being persecuted for being a Christian. Does that make sense?

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I edited my post probably after you read it, so please read my "Full disclosure" paragraph that I added at the bottom. I realized I had strayed out of total objectivity and intellectual honesty requires that I acknowledge that.

You cannot be a modern American conservative without being open minded. The definition of modern American conservative is open minded and thinking critically about what are the actual facts, circumstances, situation instead of some fuzzier emotion-driven concept. Conservatives invite different points of view and, while they do not give equal weight to all, they at least allow all. A conservative can respect and appreciate that everybody doesn't share his/her personal views and that it is okay to agree to disagree. All a conservative asks is that he/she be allowed to be heard and to hold his/her beliefs and convictions without being attacked and/or punished for them.

Modern day liberalism/progressivism demands total conformity of thought and beliefs. If you stray from that you are to be shunned, ostracized, silenced and/or punished/destroyed. They don't care whether you are right or wrong. You must conform. Conservatives can find a pretty hostile environment in a university that embraces that and you could have to lie on your course work to get decent grades from your professors. Acceptance, tolerance, open mindedness pretty much doesn't exist.

I was blessed to go to a university where I had no clue what the religious, political, or socioeconomic views of any of my professors were. The university invited to campus all manner of speakers and presentations from Birchers to Russian communists and everything in between ranging from the arts to history to economics to hard science etc. We students were never required to agree with any of these people but we were expected to offer them the utmost courtesy and hospitality. An organized protest or any kind of protest objecting to them was unheard of and would have resulted in quick reprimand from university authorities. We were sometimes assigned homework to attend this or that lecture pertinent to the subject matter of a particular class--we journalism majors got a LOT of those assignments --and would then discuss it or compose our impressions or in my case write a news story on it.

THAT kind of environment produces real education as opposed to indoctrination. And whether you are progressive or conservative you will likely find community because of the tolerance and acceptance that is characteristic.

Mary Meg said:

It's a pretty overwhelming decision, especially knowing so much is riding on it. Do you think it's true that a larger university is likely to have more of a mix of people and so more people like me?

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Probably more of a mix, but not necessarily more people like yourself unless you have chosen the university with that in mind.

Or can a whole university tend towards liberal or conservative?

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Absolutely. And it is not just professors. The administration can, and often does, favor one or another.

I'm pretty conservative but I would say open-minded. It doesn't offend me to hear other, even non-Christian viewpoints, but I don't want to feel like things are being shoved down my throat or like I'm being persecuted for being a Christian. Does that make sense?

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Sure. That usually IS the problem, not simply the hearing of the other view.

Mary Meg said:

Thanks for the advice! I think especially as I've gotten older as a homeschooler I've become more of a self-starter. So maybe I will do okay?

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Also, something important: Stay safe as a woman. Don't accept open drinks if you don't see what goes into them. Don't walk alone late at night. Stay with your friends. And there's probably a bunch more that I can't think of right now.

I had a couple of thoughts in reply to things you've said.

Mary Meg said:

Thanks for the advice! I think especially as I've gotten older as a homeschooler I've become more of a self-starter. So maybe I will do okay?

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This will help you in college. One of the important elements of transition from high school to college is that in college you take much more responsibility for your own education. If you're already used to doing that, you're ahead of the game.

Mary Meg said:

I think the Christian School might be "safe" (then again, maybe not) and familofa but also possibly limiting in some ways. They are definitely not as strong in sciences and I really think I would like to study STEM.

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If Big School offers a better education in your area of interest than Christian School, that's definitely something to take into account.

With that said, I wanted to say something positive about my Christian School experience, since I haven't seen anything in that direction so far in the discussion. I went to Wheaton College in Illinois for my undergraduate education; it is a well-regarded small Christian liberal arts college in the conservative Evangelical tradition. I was a math major, but the most valuable part of my experience there was the theology and Bible classes that I took. They were valuable exactly because they were not "safe". That was where I learned about church history, and that there were Christians in Rome and Constantinople a very very long time ago. (I am much more respectful towards Catholic and Orthodox Christians on CF than my 16-year-old self would have been.) I learned the details of the core Christian doctrines, and how those doctrines developed. I learned about higher criticism, and something of how to apply source criticism to the documents of Scripture. This was all taught by Christian professors who were bringing their scholarly knowledge to the subject. All of this changed me, and made me a more mature Christian. I don't know where else I would have learned all this; church education usually isn't this intellectual, and education in secular universities isn't usually going to be as Christian-oriented.

Everyone's college experience is different, and schools are different. I don't know if you have any interest in theology, church history, or Bible classes (it's okay if you don't). I also don't know that much about Samford. It encourages me that they take a strong, positive stand on evolution (https://www.samford.edu/arts-and-sciences/files/Biological_and_Environmental_Sciences/evolution.pdf: "Evolution, a foundational concept in biology, has been established through empirical evidence, and the consensus of the scientific community is that evolution is the best explanation for the origins of biological diversity."); there's no point studying the natural sciences at a school that rejects mainstream science. You'll probably just have to visit and talk to Samford faculty and students to get a feel for the place.

There are good things about the state schools on your list also, of course. I teach at a medium-sized state school, and our students get a good education at a relatively low cost; most of my (computer science) students get jobs in their field soon after graduation. I just wanted to point out a potential positive of the Christian school on the list.

"So maybe I will do OK?"

You will do GREAT!!!

Mary Meg said:

Thanks to everybody who has replied. I feel a lot better in some ways...

I think the needle has dipped a ways toward one of the Big Schools. Like I said, there are two, so maybe I will have to post about that decision too...

I like the idea of there being a lot of things I can study and do, a lot of opportunities to learn and experience and advance, better recognition by employers... I think the Christian School might be "safe" (then again, maybe not) and familofa but also possibly limiting in some ways. They are definitely not as strong in sciences and I really think I would like to study STEM.

I am pretty scared about the size of the Big School but encouraged by all everyone has said about Christian groups. I am worried about hostile, liberal professors... How can I allay that fear?

I might consider going to the Local School for a year, but as some of you have pointed out, I might lose my scholarships to the others if I turn them down now.

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I really relate to a lot of what you're struggling with in your decision. The university I go to is enormous - way, way huger than even the big state colleges in the US. I'm an introvert too. But I literally don't know of anybody who goes here who wasn't intimidated about the size, like even the extroverted social butterflies were scared about it. It's the most common fear. For me what allayed that fear was actually taking classes b4 enrolling full-time. I live close to the university & they let high schoolers take classes so I took advantage of that starting in grade 11. Other ppl have taken classes online 1st. I saw that as being sort of like a trial run. It was a super great experience. Like I said in a previous post, I made friends at a summer camp hosted by the Christian group I'm a part of b4 the school year began and made some of my best friends in life there. If you have your core group of friends then you're going to have ppl who know you & support you. You're not gonna just be another face in the crowd. I just looked it up for you & the same group is active in Alabama. https://ua.campuslabs.com/engage/organization/ivbama

I also struggled with whether I wanted to move away for college, bc that had always been my dream. We used to live in Chicago & in Seattle b4 moving to Canada, so my plan all along had been to go to University of Chicago or UW. I don't believe that was God's plan for me bc both of those paths weren't made clear. My sister went to Chicago on a full scholarship. They offered me a really big scholarship but not a full one like hers, and bc it's like $75,000 a yr, it still was going to be tens of thousands of dollars more. I didn't want my parents to spend that much or for me to take on debt. Especially when the college I'm going to is ranked higher for my major on global ratings & is 100% free for me.

I definitely think you'd be better off going to the big university that is stronger in STEM & is going to offer more opportunities, for a lot less money.

I'd just start out at the big school that offers you the most. Then if you don't like it after a yr, you can move back home & go to the local school.

I don't think you should worry that much about hostile liberal professors, tbh. Most are not going to talk about religion at all in class, bc that's just not professional the majority of the time. Then to flip the script, there's conservative professors who've been controversial & have caused damage to faith, so going to a Christian college wouldn't ensure that you never had a prof who is hostile towards your own beliefs. There's a famous / infamous professor at my school that a lot of conservative Christians respect. There's actually a thread that is new on here where conservatives talk about how much they respect him. But in his class he's actually demeaned religion a lot & been hurtful to Christians. In contrast most of our other professors really don't show a liberal or a conservative bias or talk about religion either way but instead just focus on teaching their subject. Obv for some majors there's going to be more of an injection of personal beliefs than with others but for most, especially with STEM, it's not going to. If you were gonna major in theology then that would be another matter.

Mary Meg said:

I'm pretty conservative but I would say open-minded. It doesn't offend me to hear other, even non-Christian viewpoints, but I don't want to feel like things are being shoved down my throat or like I'm being persecuted for being a Christian. Does that make sense?

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That's why I posted the links I did. Surveys suggest that conservatives are generally as happy with college as liberals, even at major schools. I won't say you'll never find a biased faculty member, but apparently not enough to affect overall satisfaction.

Andrew77 said:

So I have some odd advice for you. Don't go to school.

The key is that you said "now I have no idea what to do".

My advice to all students who are coming out of high school, without any idea what they really want to do with their life is... don't go to school.

You go to college when you have a career you wish to aim at. One of the best bits of advice I ever got, and still remember to this day is...... Never aim at nothing.... because you'll hit it every time.

You get my point? If you aim for nothing, and start shooting, you'll hit nothing a whole lot. Bad idea.

You go to college when you have a target. I want to be (X) whatever X is, and then you go to college to start hitting that target of being (X).

So here's my thought.

You can join a missions trip. You can do an outreach ministry. You can join an internship at some company you like. Check around, and see what is out there. Join a group going someplace, and help out in whatever way you can.

There are many things you can do. Determine to think about it over the next year. This time next year, with a goal in mind, then you can go to college.

because I could try studying different things to help me find what I love.
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I really don't like this idea. I've seen people do it, and then they end up bouncing around, changing their major 5 times, take 8 years to graduate, and end up $200,000 in debt.

Are there people who do that and find what they like? Sure. But... I have seen more people come out with a degree they don't want, more often, because they didn't know what they wanted when they went in.

I would rather you take a year off, and figure out what you want first, and then go into school with a target to aim at. Rather than going into school, shooting at nothing over and over, and hoping you hit something.

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Not going to school is not always the best advice. Statistically people who don't go college after high school are less likely to ever get a degree. Now if the person is going into the trades, for instance, then a degree may not matter.

A better option is going to a local community college to knock out the first two years of school. During this time, figure out what interests you and then transfer to a university for your last two years.

There are other options too, like the peace corps or enlisting (which would give the added bonus of the GI Bill that would pay for school after your enlistment is up). Or, of course, a trade school.

For most people who are unsure, I think the community college option is the safest bet.

mnphysicist said:

For the first couple years, curricula is pretty much identical, and there really isn't a whole lot of difference even in years three and four for a given major, whether you go to a huge ivy league or a smaller local state school. Ie, Calc 1 is going to cover pretty much the same material irrespective of where you attend.

That being said, there are huge differences...

In larger schools, in the first year, you could will be in a classroom with of hundreds of students, and it might be taught by TA's (teaching assistants), who may be teaching for their first time, who may or may not have command of the English language, and are often teaching material they themselves crammed for only a few years prior. Granted, a professor has overall responsibility for the class, but don't be surprised at the inexperience of the lecturer, grader, or tutor. If you are a motivated student and work hard, this is a non-issue, and can be a means of teaching yourself how to learn. If you are struggling, this can be too much to deal with.

In some schools, your classes may be taught be part time adjunct professors / lecturers. This can be a great thing if they bring real life work experience into the classroom. Ie, my music history prof was a session musician, one of my comp sci profs was an upper level programmer from an F500 company. In other cases, its a situation where the school is trying to be cheap... so rather than hiring folks for the long haul, they rely on 1 yr contracts, and your experience as a student can vary a great deal.

Information on the use of adjuncts, TA's, and classroom size is generally hidden from view... but this is where campus visits can be a huge deal. Ie, ask students who is the best prof for Calc 1, how big is the class, who teaches it, how hard is it to get into prof X class, as contrasted with a recently hired lecturer. (And define best as the best teacher rather than the easiest). You can get some prelimary info on this from cross checking dept staff listings with reviews on ratemyprofessor.com bearing in mind, some students are lazy, or may carry grudges as a professor wouldn't bend on grade inflation etc.

Connections you make in school can be invaluable during your career. Such is the primary value added of the Ivy league and some Christian schools but it is career path as well as regionally dependent. Alumni connections can be a means of getting past gatekeepers, and/or making immediate connection with a potential employer, or even buyer of goods and services. Likewise, some professor recommendations may carry huge weight in the STEM fields, ie, if professor Bob says hire this person, in some cases that's an 80% win on the hiring process right there. Lastly student to student connections can make a difference too. That being said... unless you are quite certain as to your career path, jumping into the ivy leagues and/or some Christian schools, short of a full scholarship, and/or being independently wealthy far too often come backs to haunt folks with insane levels of debt.

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You can also get those connections and other intangibles if you transfer in after your first two years, or you attend grad school at one of these prestigious universities.

How is this even a question? Heh. The Christian School is the obvious choice. Best of luck! God bless you!