Christians who scoff at paranormal

cloudyday2 · Apr 14, 2019

I have noticed many Christians scoff at paranormal/magic/spirits/UFOs/etc. In fact a casual observer might mistakenly assume they are atheists when reading their skeptical and joking responses. ... But then these same people become extremely serious and solemn when discussing paranormal claims in the Bible such as the resurrection of Lazarus.

It seems to me that standards should be applied uniformly. We can't have one standard for the religion we inherited and another standard for everything else.

SkyWriting · Apr 14, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
I have noticed many Christians scoff at paranormal/magic/spirits/UFOs/etc. In fact a casual observer might mistakenly assume they are atheists when reading their skeptical and joking responses. ... But then these same people become extremely serious and solemn when discussing paranormal claims in the Bible such as the resurrection of Lazarus.

It seems to me that standards should be applied uniformly. We can't have one standard for the religion we inherited and another standard for everything else.

Yes we can. ALL past events are a matter of faith.
We place our FAITH in the storyteller for every past event.
Scripture has proven itself worth of our faith. "Jethro" does
not make a good case for alien abduction or sasquatch.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Apr 14, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Yes we can. ALL past events are a matter of faith.
We place our FAITH in the storyteller for every past event.
Scripture has proven itself worth of our faith. "Jethro" does
not make a good case for alien abduction or sasquatch.

Space Aliens Are really just Demons.

fc53ee_9692ae9303104c5cb8a4d874adb47f2f~mv2.jpg

Thess · Apr 14, 2019

I can't understand why anyone would scoff when we have characters like the Nephilim and the Ananaki early in the bible, Gen 6:4-8ish, for starters.

Dave-W · Apr 14, 2019

It is due to a purely naturalistic world view. It also leads to the doctrine of cessationism, where the supernatural acts of the past were done by the end of the first century.

My friends (both Presbyterian pastors) wrote a book (I think it is still in print) called The Collapse of the Brass Heavens by Revs Brad Long and Doug McMurry. It tears that viewpoint apart piece by piece.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Apr 14, 2019

From : Alien Abductions and the Orthodox Christian

Here's a quote from the site written by: Archbishop Chrysostomos of Etna:

"It is worthy of note that the late Father Seraphim Rose, in his book Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future (Platina, CA: Saint Herman of Alaska Brotherhood, 1990; Revised Edition), has also examined the phenomenon of alien visitations to earth from an Orthodox standpoint. He devotes an entire chapter of this work, "‘Signs from Heaven:’ An Orthodox Christian Understanding of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs)," to the true nature and meaning of alien contacts with human beings. Though Father Seraphim, at a superficial level, approaches this matter in a way reminiscent of Protestant fundamentalistic thinking, and while his materials are dated and center only on more sensationalistic abduction reports—deficits compounded by the fact that some of the authorities whom he cites are clearly on the fringes of science—, his deeper analysis of the phenomenon is ingenious and supports much of what I have suggested about alien encounters with humans. He also observes that the aliens in contemporary abduction reports are similar in appearance to the demons which, for centuries, have been described in Orthodox literature (p. 134). In fact, he recounts two cases of demonic "kidnappings" in fifteenth- and nineteenth-century Russia that, in Father Seraphim’s words, are "quite close to UFO ‘abductions’" today (pp. 136-137). It is his conclusion that classical demonic possession, known to the Orthodox Church for centuries, accounts for the alien abductions that we see in modern times and that "...modern men, for all their proud ‘enlightenment’ and ‘wisdom,’ are becoming once more aware of such experiences—but no longer have the Christian framework with which to explain them" (p. 137). This conclusion perfectly reflects what I have said about alien abductions and how they should be understood and viewed by the Orthodox Christian."

https://www.amazon.com/Orthodoxy-Re...swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1551825634&sr=1-1

Rajni · Apr 14, 2019

Back when I was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian, I
believed that such paranormal manifestations were all
demonic in nature. Very black-and-white, simplistic
thinking on my part.

S.O.J.I.A. · Apr 14, 2019

I don't buy UFOs/aliens at all but spirits and magic, sure.

like most tongues and healings though, most claims turn out to be bogus.

SkyWriting · Apr 14, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
Space Aliens Are really just Demons.

The one on the right is not a church leader who protects pedophiles?

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Apr 14, 2019

SkyWriting said:
The one on the right is not a church leader who protects pedophiles?

Huh ?

cloudyday2 · Apr 14, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
Space Aliens Are really just Demons.

Demons with sunglasses.

Seriously though, many ufologists have noted that UFO sightings are often followed by poltergeist experiences. I don't know if this is an application of Occam's Razor, but it seems simpler to hypothesize that the various types of paranormal experiences (if real) are different faces of ONE multi-faceted source rather than distinct.

SkyWriting · Apr 14, 2019

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:
Huh ?

The one on the right looks like a church leader who protects pedophiles.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Apr 14, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
Demons with sunglasses.

Seriously though, many ufologists have noted that UFO sightings are often followed by poltergeist experiences. I don't know if this is an application of Occam's Razor, but it seems simpler to hypothesize that the various types of paranormal experiences (if real) are different faces of ONE multi-faceted source rather than distinct.

Plus have you ever notice how the abductees are always terrified and the "Aliens" always want to "Probe" them and do experiements ?

It's close to sleep paralysis stories and in the same way these beings are stopped when the person cries out to The Lord Jesus Christ to save them during the events.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith · Apr 14, 2019

SkyWriting said:
The one on the right looks like a church leader who protects pedophiles.

The demon drawing or Aleister Crowley ?

cloudyday2 · Apr 14, 2019

RayJeena said:
Back when I was a fundamentalist evangelical Christian, I
believed that such paranormal manifestations were all
demonic in nature. Very black-and-white, simplistic
thinking on my part.

One thing I think about is the gospel story where Jesus exorcises some demons and the Pharisees suggest that Jesus is able to do this because he is serving the devil. A modern day Jesus would perform a miracle in front of Christians and they would react just like the Pharisees; they would say that the devil is empowering Jesus to perform miracles to deceive Christians.

As an aside, I have always felt that Jesus gave an extremely weak response to the accusations of the Pharisees. To assume that the devil would never empower an exorcist (as Jesus argues) is pretty naive. The devil is supposed to be the father of lies. The devil's "department of darkness and dirty tricks" would make the KGB look open and honest.

cloudyday2 · Apr 14, 2019

Dave-W said:
It is due to a purely naturalistic world view. It also leads to the doctrine of cessationism, where the supernatural acts of the past were done by the end of the first century.

My friends (both Presbyterian pastors) wrote a book (I think it is still in print) called The Collapse of the Brass Heavens by Revs Brad Long and Doug McMurry. It tears that viewpoint apart piece by piece.

I googled that title, but nothing came up, so it must be out of print.

cloudyday2 · Apr 14, 2019

THE W said:
I don't buy UFOs/aliens at all but spirits and magic, sure.

like most tongues and healings though, most claims turn out to be bogus.

I know somebody with the reverse position who is open to belief in UFOs/aliens but scoffs at ghosts and magic.

I am reading "Illuminations: the UFO experience a parasychological event" by Ouellet. I haven't gotten far enough to understand the author's ideas yet, but I'm assuming based on the title that he believes UFOs and other types of paranormal are related.

Swan7 · Apr 14, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
I have always felt that Jesus gave an extremely weak response to the accusations of the Pharisees. To assume that the devil would never empower an exorcist (as Jesus argues) is pretty naive. The devil is supposed to be the father of lies.

What Jesus said is that Satan cannot cast his kingdom out of people, however, that does not mean they can't "act" like they've gone out. They can lie dormant in people and deceive in that nature, but they themselves as devils cannot cast themselves out of people. They need and want a host to reside in just like how Jesus Christ' Spirit reside in Christians. In a broader spectrum, Satan wants to be just like God and even above Him, so he will try his best at every turn to do so. Which is why Jesus warns many that his tricks are powerful and can even (if it were possible) deceive the elect (His saints). Matthew 24:24

cloudyday2 · Apr 14, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Yes we can. ALL past events are a matter of faith.
We place our FAITH in the storyteller for every past event.
Scripture has proven itself worth of our faith. "Jethro" does
not make a good case for alien abduction or sasquatch.

At least we can interview Jethro and ask his friends if he is a bit kooky and so forth. We can't do that with the authors of the Biblical texts. Of course to whatever extent the claims in the Bible can be tested, its veracity can be demonstrated independent of the authors. I suppose many Christians feel that the Bible's teachings have proven themselves to be true as they have been applied to their lives.

Dave-W · Apr 14, 2019

cloudyday2 said:
I googled that title, but nothing came up, so it must be out of print.

The Collapse of the Brass Heaven - Presbyterian Reformed Ministries International

Christians who scoff at paranormal

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