Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

Absolutely, Man decides how God moves... and God laughs !!!

Blessings

Carl Emerson.

ml5363 said:

A truly saved person can not lose it

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Of course they can.

Read the scripture where Jesus explains the parable of the sower and find this, the first 3 verses:

Luke 8:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

We all know the seed is Gods word, and if you look closely at the second verse, you'll see they "heard" the word but the devil snatched it away before they had a chance to receive it, and be saved.

But the third verse, they heard and "believed" or were clearly saved for awhile, but were temped to the point they would "fall away" from their salvation.

Now the first thing those that choose no to believe that will do (and this or other parts of this post, are not necessarily directed at you, ml5363) is attack the fact that they were saved at all. That is of course clear to me, and others, but they will try to confuse that one issue, however, if they didn't "fall away" from salvation, what did they fall away from?

Then there is this comment.

James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Those people are "brothers and sisters", or saved people, and the fallen in this case is "one of you" or were saved like the rest of them. Now, if that saved person was "brought back" they had to have been gone from something, and in context, that can only have been their salvation.

Now I realize some of you are thinking "Well Duh, the meanings there is obvious" but I tell you, once some get on the kick they are saved forever no matter what they do, they don't take kindly to someone trying to convince them otherwise. They will fight the obvious truth tooth and nail, and will choose not to believe what was just quoted from the Bible They will throw all kinds of nonsense at the clear and simple truth. That's the reason I explain what is obvious to most, so a child can understand it.

They badly want to believe the very selfish, "We can do as we like and still go to heaven", because it's more fun then being obedient to God. At least that's been my experience with OSASr's, some of the meanest most ungodly selfish people I've had the displeasure of being around... and all because they can, at least in their mind.

Kenny'sID said:

Of course they can.

Read the scripture where Jesus explains the parable of the sower and find this, the first 3 verses:

Luke 8:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

We all know the seed is Gods word, and if you look closely at the second verse, you'll see they "heard" the word but the devil snatched it away before they had a chance to receive it, and be saved.

But the third verse, they heard and "believed" or were clearly saved for awhile, but were temped to the point they would "fall away" from their salvation.

Now the first thing those that choose no to believe that will do (and this or other parts of this post, are not necessarily directed at you, ml5363) is attack the fact that they were saved at all. That is of course clear to me, and others, but they will try to confuse that one issue, however, if they didn't "fall away" from salvation, what did they fall away from?

Then there is this comment.

James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Those people are "brothers and sisters", meaning they were all saved and if they were "brought back" they had to have been gone from something, and in context, that can only have been their salvation.

Now I realize some of you are thinking "Well Duh, the meanings there is obvious" but I tell you, once some get on the kick they are saved forever no matter what they do, they don't take kindly to someone trying to convince them otherwise. They will fight the obvious truth tooth and nail, and will choose not to believe what was just quoted from the Bible They will throw all kinds of nonsense at the clear and simple truth. That's the reason I explain what is obvious to most, so a child can understand it.

They badly want to believe the very selfish, "We can do as we like and still go to heaven", because it's more fun then being obedient to God. At least that's been my experience with OSASr's, some of the meanest most ungodly selfish people I've had the displeasure of being around... and all because they can, at least in their mind.

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Sin of presumption is certainly a dangerous one.

For not abiding in the vine and producing good fruit

Kenny'sID said:

Of course they can.

Read the scripture where Jesus explains the parable of the sower and find this, the first 3 verses:

Luke 8:11-15 King James Version (KJV)
"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

We all know the seed is Gods word, and if you look closely at the second verse, you'll see they "heard" the word but the devil snatched it away before they had a chance to receive it, and be saved.

But the third verse, they heard and "believed" or were clearly saved for awhile, but were temped to the point they would "fall away" from their salvation.

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Show us the words "saved for a while" and "fall away from their salvation" in Luke 8:11-15. Even though this shallow ground hearer is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved?" I will explain the reasons:

First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

*Unlike saving faith, temporary shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, (Matthew 13:5-6; Luke 8:6; 13) represent saving belief? It's interesting to see how people who are quick to say "faith without works is dead" in James chapter 2 suddenly disregard that in this parable. Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "pisteuo" mental assent that "there is one God," but they do not believe "pisteuo" on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" to some level but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus which "falls short of firmly rooted and established consummated belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their "belief" was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. YOU CALL THAT SAVED?

Then there is this comment.

James 5:19-20 New International Version (NIV)
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Those people are "brothers and sisters", or saved people, and the fallen in this case is "one of you" or were saved like the rest of them. Now, if that saved person was "brought back" they had to have been gone from something, and in context, that can only have been their salvation.

Now I realize some of you are thinking "Well Duh, the meanings there is obvious" but I tell you, once some get on the kick they are saved forever no matter what they do, they don't take kindly to someone trying to convince them otherwise. They will fight the obvious truth tooth and nail, and will choose not to believe what was just quoted from the Bible They will throw all kinds of nonsense at the clear and simple truth. That's the reason I explain what is obvious to most, so a child can understand it.

Click to expand...

In regards to James 5:19-20, *notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died." In 1 Peter 3:20, ..God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, [psuche-souls] were brought safely (saved from drowning, physical death) through the water by the ark (Hebrews 11:7).

"Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit." In 1 Corinthians 5:5, we read - I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (no spiritual death).

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in verse 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

They badly want to believe the very selfish, "We can do as we like and still go to heaven", because it's more fun then being obedient to God. At least that's been my experience with OSASr's, some of the meanest most ungodly selfish people I've had the displeasure of being around... and all because they can, at least in their mind.

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When all else fails, play the straw man card. I've met people in the NOSAS camp who are very judgmental, mean spirited and self righteous, but I refuse to paint everyone in the NOSAS camp with a broad brush.

Danthemailman said:

I even heard one NOSAS proponent claim that continuing in the faith, abiding in Christ is an extremely difficult burden that most Christians will surely fail to do and even implied that around 90% of born again Christians will end up losing their salvation.

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yes correct how can a man hold onto to something he could never earn. a free gift is a free gift. paul knew this and was aware of his inability to walk in his own in perfection. im not saying he sinned just to sin but he was aware that a sinful nature does still exists romans 7:15-20 .this is why paul walked in so much power and the holy spirit used him to author roughly 2/3 of the new testament. he gave all glory to God as the one who alone saves and took none for himself by trying to perform works 2 corinthians 11:30 .people struggle with Gods grace and mercy and have a hard time letting go and just receiving the goodness of God. Jesus is to receive all glory for we are the ones who are in need of the savior and our own works and attempts amount to nothing in the eyes of God. Jesus is the one who saves and he is the one who maintains john 6:37-40 john 10:28

It's an impossibility for certain people to be renewed, to be brought back again to repentance.

Who are these people?

- They've been enlightened by the Spirit through the Word.
- They've an understanding of Christ and of their redemption through Christ.
- They've been called out of the darkness to Christ's light.
- They've tasted the heavenly gift, salvation as grace's gift.
- They've become partakers of the Spirit, they've been sealed with her.
- They've tasted God's Word and the future life's powers.
- They've experienced God's power unto salvation.
- They've anticipated being partakers of heaven's glory.

Neogaia777 said:

Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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A person can loose their salvation by no longer believing in the Gospel of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. All other "sins" are worked out through sanctification. Some have a very long and torturous walk due to weakness of the flesh while others have a more fruitful relationship with the Lord. Both are Christians and both are at risk of rejecting the Gospel and loosing their salvation. This is why we need to equip ourselves with the power of the Holy Spirit in order to stay the course.
Blessings

Ttalkkugjil said:

It's an impossibility for certain people to be renewed, to be brought back again to repentance.

Who are these people?

- They've been enlightened by the Spirit through the Word.
- They've an understanding of Christ and of their redemption through Christ.
- They've been called out of the darkness to Christ's light.
- They've tasted the heavenly gift, salvation as grace's gift.
- They've become partakers of the Spirit, they've been sealed with her.
- They've tasted God's Word and the future life's powers.
- They've experienced God's power unto salvation.
- They've anticipated being partakers of heaven's glory.

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See - Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?
Hebrews 6:4-5 Commentary | Precept Austin

Danthemailman said:

See - Does Hebrews 6:4-6 mean we can lose our salvation?
Hebrews 6:4-5 Commentary | Precept Austin

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Seeking to engage me in a game of dueling links?

Neogaia777 said:

Who loses their Salvation, and for "what" do they lose it for...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

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We turn to God, and later, like Adam did originally, we freely turn away from Him, even after 'tasting of the heavenly gift' (Heb 6:4). Persistent serious sin, always an act against love of God and neighbor, is generally the turning point, the expression of our distaste for Him.

Neogaia777 said:

For one who believes, this is the only kind of sin that can cost one their salvation, and as for all other sins, they cannot separate you from the Love of God, but this one, can...

God Bless!

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It's our lack of love for God that can separate us from Him; His love is always consistent and true.

Neogaia777 said:

So it is "our love for Him" that saves us...?

God Bless!

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It's both/and. It's how His love for us has changed us-and continues to change us in a walk with Him taking place throughout our lives.

Neogaia777 said:

And if "others do not see any evidence of how God's Love has changed us", (by our own Love maybe), then we are not saved...?

God Bless!

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Well, evidence should definitely be present, even though it also can be false, done for wrong reasons. In any case God judges by the heart, which He knows infinitely better than we do. The rest can judge as they see fit but human judgment can be faulty as we know, for many reasons.