Can women talk about Jesus and the gospel?

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,301.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And yours is wrong. That's why women can't have authority in Church. Because Satan deceives their interpretation of Scripture and tries to lead men to disobey God.

Nonsense.
So women can never teach theology, write commentaries or factual books about the Bible? In fact maybe we women should stop reading the Bible altogether - what's the point if that nasty, mean devil is only going to trick us into believing something false?
Ever heard of the Holy Spirit? He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world, 1 John 4:4.

I'm teaching Paul's teaching which is God's Will

You're teaching a literal interpretation of one verse - which is not the same..

You're a prime example of why God doesn't give spiritual authority to women over the men of God.

Rather rude.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sam91
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
But this isn't taught.



No, but the verse says silence and if you are taking that verse of Scripture literally, that is what you must do and/or insist on. It would be wrong to say that one part of the verse applies but not the other.



If it is, and if this is so important then, why didn't Jesus teach it?
When he said, "I will build my church", Matthew 16:18, why did he not give precise instructions about leadership, different roles and say "oh, and don't let women anywhere near the place"? He could have easily done so and made it crystal clear.
Instead he did a lot to elevate women - he allowed them to speak for him, to be a witness for him, to sit at his feet and learn. He healed and forgave them - and reminded people that God made both men and women.



It is God's will that we ALL submit to Jesus and declare him as Lord.



No, because it's not a truth.
God is calling, has always called and probably always will call women to preach and be Ministers. He does not go against his word. I would guess your response to that might be "no, he doesn't go against his word so you are wrong about being called." Not at all. I have been called - as have others - and the reason God IS calling us is because there is nothing in his word which forbids it or says otherwise.

You said women should submit - God called Deborah to be judge over the whole nation and men came to her for advice. He called Huldah to be a prophetess, and the male priests had no problem about going to ask her for a word from the Lord. Women helped Paul to preach the Gospel and he commended them for doing so.
Women can speak in gatherings, but the kind of speaking is the issue. They can speak in prophecy, revelation, prayer in the Spirit as they are led, for them it is not so much them speaking but God hrough them. Also the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy so when women spoke of Jesus and the risen Lord they were giving testimony not teaching or rebuking or judging over men. The kind of speaking that is not allowed is to judge men and in thier own person for example to judge and teach over thier husbands or usurp thier authority in the home and in the church. God has a order in the homes where the man rules his own house to be able to be an overseer and care for the church. This is a make function. If any man desire the office of a bishop. It dies not say if any woman desire this.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You are assuming such, apparently. But the point was that while the Bible is the inspired word of God, some things in it are reports or observations, not directions given to us.

For example, Catholics try to prove Purgatory based upon a verse in Maccabees in which some Jews prayed for their departed brethren that they might be loosed from their sins. Leaving aside the question of whether or not that book actually is part of the Bible, there is nothing about the verse that says the approach taken by those Jews is correct; its just that this is what they did.

For another example, consider what John writes in the Book of Revelation. People often take literally every last item found therein, yet he begins by saying "I saw..." (because it was a vision), not "the Lord revealed" or "God commanded that..." or "It is our bounden duty" or anything of that sort.

The statements made by Paul that are under scrutiny in this thread are explicitly identified by him as being of this sort as well. "But I permit not a woman to teach, nor…." (1 Timothy 2:12)
No Paul explicitly said what he wrote were the commandments of the Lord, he also attaches a warning to those verses. Read the warning. He also is saying that if some don’t acknowledge that what he wrote we’re the commandments of the Lord they are not spiritual or true prophets and are ignorant or not known or to be received.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The issue of womens' role in the church is not as clear cut as some people would want to think. The letters of Paul, which date to the middle of the first century AD, provide some clues. For example, Paul greets Prisca, Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister, who worked and traveled as missionaries in pairs with their husbands or brothers (Romans 16:3, 7, 15) as equals and co-workers. Junia is praised as a prominent apostle, imprisoned for her faith. Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work (Romans 16:6, 12). Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Women were the leaders of house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19), Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship, such as the deacon Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and women were certainly praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). An order of widows served formal roles of ministry (I Timothy 5:9-10). Women prophets included Mary Magdalene, the Corinthian women, Philip's daughters, Ammia of Philadelphia, Philumene, the visionary martyr Perpetua, Maximilla, Priscilla (Prisca), and Quintilla.

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Patriarchy was simply part and parcel of their world view --- they simply were unable to think of the role of women in any other way. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men and in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and in society at large.

Any organization, religious or secular and including marriage, that fails to include women in leadership roles right up to the very top is guilty of several evils. First, it is the insult to the women themselves by viewing them as less worthy. Second, it is the insult to God by denigrating half of God’s creation. If we continue to treat women in this way, then the human race is condemned to stand on one foot, see with one eye, hear with one ear and think with one half the human mind ---- and it shows.

So, the short answer to your question is NO.
This may help

Womens roles in the church
 
Upvote 0

~Zao~

Wisdom’s child
Supporter
Jun 27, 2007
3,060
957
✟100,595.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
God has a order in the homes where the man rules his own house to be able to be an overseer and care for the church.
Yah we all know where that law comes from.
Esther 1
21 This advice pleased the king and the officials, and the king did as Memucan proposed; 22 he sent letters to all the royal provinces, to every province in its own script and to every people in its own language, declaring that every man should be master in his own house.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
in his judgment, that is.
No Jesus Christ spoke in him

2 Corinthians 13:3. Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.”

And he said of such commandment

1 Thessalonians 4:2. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.”
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yah we all know where that law comes from.
Esther 1
21 This advice pleased the king and the officials, and the king did as Memucan proposed; 22 he sent letters to all the royal provinces, to every province in its own script and to every people in its own language, declaring that every man should be master in his own house.
It comes from here

1 Timothy 3:1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)”
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,301.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The kind of speaking that is not allowed is to judge men and in thier own person for example to judge and teach over thier husbands or usurp thier suthority in the home and in the church.

Deborah was judge over the whole nation.

God has a order in the homes where the man rules his own house

Maybe - but some men are not able to do that.

to be able to be an overseer and care for the church.

No, a marriage relationship is nothing like the role of church Minister.
In most churches, the Minister does not dictate/command but everything goes before a church council who prayerfully decide. In the URC church, the whole church has a vote on choosing a new Minister. Only one person chooses her husband - the wife. (Except in cases of arranged marriages.)

If any man desire the office of a bishop. It dies not say if any woman desire this.

Because women were so downtrodden then no one would have let them desire it.
The Bible talks about women looking after their children - does that mean that men aren't allowed to because it doesn't say so?
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
No Jesus Christ spoke in him

2 Corinthians 13:3. Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.”

And he said of such commandment

1 Thessalonians 4:2. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.”
Where is the evidence as it might apply to the verse we were talking about?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ttalkkugjil

Social Pastor
Mar 6, 2019
1,680
908
Suwon
✟34,572.00
Country
Korea, Republic Of
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Nonsense.
So women can never teach theology, write commentaries or factual books about the Bible? In fact maybe we women should stop reading the Bible altogether - what's the point if that nasty, mean devil is only going to trick us into believing something false?
Ever heard of the Holy Spirit? He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world, 1 John 4:4.



You're teaching a literal interpretation of one verse - which is not the same..



Rather rude.

Believers belong to God, they're God's children, having been born again from Baptism and the Spirit. So they have the power to conquer their temptations.

Antichristian temptation is powerless against God's strength that lives in the believers. For though Satan is in the false teachers, yet God is greater and stronger than Satan with his evil angels.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Deborah was judge over the whole nation.



Maybe - but some men are not able to do that.



No, a marriage relationship is nothing like the role of church Minister.
In most churches, the Minister does not dictate/command but everything goes before a church council who prayerfully decide. In the URC church, the whole church has a vote on choosing a new Minister. Only one person chooses her husband - the wife. (Except in cases of arranged marriages.)



Because women were so downtrodden then no one would have let them desire it.
The Bible talks about women looking after their children - does that mean that men aren't allowed to because it doesn't say so?
Deborah was a prophetess speaking first person for God. So it was not her speaking but God through her. I addressed this before prophecy is allowed for women. This is not to speak of themselves or act of themselves (usurp)

But Deborah spoke of the reproach that would follow.

Judges 4:8. And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.9. And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.”
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,301.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Believers belong to God, they're God's children, having been born again from Baptism and the Spirit. So they have the power to conquer their temptations.

Temptations?
Being called to preach the Gospel is a temptation??
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,301.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Deborah was a prophetess speaking first person for God. So it was not her speaking but God through her.

Deborah undoubtedly spoke the words that God wanted, and inspired, her to say - but she spoke with her own, female, God given voice.

The reproach that followed was Barak's. HE was told to go and do something but would not unless Deborah went with him.
Deborah said that because of that, the honour for killing Sisera would not be his - it would go to a woman. Deborah told Barak what the Lord wanted him to do; Barak would only do it if Deborah went with him.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Deborah undoubtedly spoke the words that God wanted, and inspired, her to say - but she spoke with her own, female, God given voice.
Matthew 10:19. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.20. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”

Not ye that speak
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
1 Corinthians 14:37
I already knew that you had to kite together unrelated verses in order to make your point, but this is not even from the same book of the Bible, so it obviously is not throwing any light upon the verse we were looking at.
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I already knew that you had to kite together unrelated verses in order to make your point, but this is not even from the same book of the Bible, so it obviously is not throwing any light upon the verse we were looking at.
Paul speaks of women speaking in the meetings there

And what other verses do you bring
 
Upvote 0

Strong in Him

Great is thy faithfulness
Supporter
Mar 4, 2005
27,767
7,913
NW England
✟1,041,301.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 10:19. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.20. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.”

Apart from the fact that that verse was given hundreds of years after Deborah, and you are trying to apply it retrospectively - it doesn't apply.
Deborah was not being arrested or charged before a court.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Apart from the fact that that verse was given hundreds of years after Deborah, and you are trying to apply it retrospectively - it doesn't apply.
Deborah was not being arrested or charged before a court.
God spoke first person through Deborah

It is the same thing
 
Upvote 0