Being Christian and belonging to a Church

Dave-W said:

It would have been culturally understood in most circles in the first century. So the NT texts ASSUME that the individual believer is part of a local assembly. But to be sure, the author of Hebrews makes a point of stating it.

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Hmmm... So you are saying unless someone belongs to a church, they can not be a Christian? Would it follow then that all of those on CF who profess to be Christian, but don't currently belong to a church are not Christians? Do you believe they should even be allowed to post in the Christian only areas of his forum?

jacks said:

Hmmm... So you are saying unless someone belongs to a church, they can not be a Christian?

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Not saying that. They can still be a Christian, but if their not being in a congregation is of their own choice, they are being rebellious.

Dave-W said:

Not saying that. They can still be a Christian, but if their not being in a congregation is of their own choice, they are being rebellious.

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Thank you for the clarification. I agree wholeheartedly. Being part of a congregation is an important aspect of being a Christian. I've been a member of mine (Baptist) for 7 years now (Methodist before that) and the benefits of being part of a group of believers is a wonderful thing. There was a time however, (I lived in China) that I couldn't be part of a congregation, but I still loved the Lord and prayed daily and of course still considered myself a Christian. As you said, I really didn't have much of a choice at the time. Also there are circumstances when people are looking for the right place to fit in. Maybe new Christians, or those between congregations. The Lord loves them all!

The church is the bride of Christ, its global in scope and outside of time, past, present, and future.

Dave-W said:

If you do NOT become a member of some local assembly you are in violation of this scripture:

Hebrews 10:25
not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

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How do you get local from this?

I concede, local is the most obvious and for most the easiest, but its not an exclusive means of assembling and encouraging others.

There are tons of Christian's who will never enter the walls of a church again. I think of a buddy whose brother was sexually molested by their pastor, who then went on to kill himself. No way will he enter a church, and if I were in his shoes, I probably wouldn't either.

I think of the pedophile released from prison, where in a order was issued to keep him away from church due to the dangers presented. I actually saw photos on the admin walls to keep watch for the fellow if he showed and if he was ever seen, to call the police.

I think of the multitude of homebound and sick folks who can no longer assemble together....

Sometimes one has to deal with the situation at hand, even if its the 2 or 3 thing.

I also question the part about membership...

I remember beating this around with a colleague some 30+ years ago where he was vehemiently anti-membership, despite the fact both of us were working in the same ministry. He made a lot of really good points from the scriptures as to why it was to be avoided... and yet again from an insider point of view, it can make things easier. Also, depending upon polity, voting rights and the ability to influence church direction ie speaking at annual meetings etc membership can be pretty important.
T

mnphysicist said:

There are tons of Christian's who will never enter the walls of a church again. I think of a buddy whose brother was sexually molested by their pastor, who then went on to kill himself. No way will he enter a church, and if I were in his shoes, I probably wouldn't either.

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This would be a good reason not to attend that particular church but it isn't a reason to refuse to attend any church.

samwise gamgee said:

This would be a good reason not to attend that particular church but it isn't a reason to refuse to attend any church.

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That's not how human psychology actually works. People don't think "This church hurt me, but this one I'm perfectly fine with", typically.

After 9/11, peoples attitude about religion in the US started changing. After an initial upsurge in church attendance, it started declining again. Young people started associating religion, all religion, with extremism. Even though Islam and Christianity of course are very different, people still put them into the same categories. If people can overlook huge differenecs like that, then its understandable when they don't parse out the details of Christian Denomination A vs. Christian Denomination B

FireDragon76 said:

That's not how human psychology actually works. People don't think "This church hurt me, but this one I'm perfectly fine with", typically.

its understandable when they don't parse out the details of Christian Denomination A vs. Christian Denomination B

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There is an old joke about a Jewish mariner Robinson Carusowitz.

After being shipwrecked on a desert island for 25 years, a ship stopped off to take on water and supplies and found him. Near the beach were 2 huge beautiful buildings, both obviously synagogues. When the captain asked him about why he built the 2 synagogues, Robinson replied:

(points to one) "That synagogue I go to." (points to the other) " But that synagogue I DON'T GO TO!"

Dave-W said:

There is an old joke about a Jewish mariner Robinson Carusowitz.

After being shipwrecked on a desert island for 25 years, a ship stopped off to take on water and supplies and found him. Near the beach were 2 huge beautiful buildings, both obviously synagogues. When the captain asked him about why he built the 2 synagogues, Robinson replied:

(points to one) "That synagogue I go to." (points to the other) " But that synagogue I DON'T GO TO!"

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Lutherans have a similar joke. At least in the US, that is the reality for us, also.

seeking.IAM said:

While I think it may be possible to become a Christian without a church, I'm not sure one can stay a Christian without a church. At least, I doubt I can. Church helps nurture one's faith.

You can plant a seed but it you never water or fertilize it, what you planted is not long for this world.

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That would make me not a Christian then because I have not had a church since I moved to Florida. I am just not able to join a church because my mom is a Methodist and ruled out returning to the Vineyard.

ChristianForCats said:

That would make me not a Christian then because I have not had a church since I moved to Florida. I am just not able to join a church because my mom is a Methodist and ruled out returning to the Vineyard.

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That is not exactly what I meant. I do not believe one is not a Christian if they don't go to church. What I meant to emphasize is that, for me, church nurtures my faith and helps keep me more mindful of the faith and my obligations as a Christian. In my own life during periods when I have stopped going to church, I eventually drifted away and my mind became occupied by other more worldly things. I need church to help me retain my focus. That was the intent of my post.

friendl said:

Hi there,

A question, do you think that you have to belong to a Church to be classed as a Christian?

Lee

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I jes' need to belong to Jesus Christ to be a Christian.

friendl said:

Hi there,

A question, do you think that you have to belong to a Church to be classed as a Christian?

Lee

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What do you mean by, "belong to a church?" Do you mean to be a member?

I watched a youtube video recently, a TED talk, about how limited the individual human mind is, one scientist estimated each of us can only remember about a gigabyte of information. So we are dependent on things like collective deliberation and consensus to get anywhere together. One person cannot do everything. That is why Paul uses the metaphor of a body to talk about the Church.

No you don't HAVE to belong to a church to be a Christian. By accepting Christ you automatically become part of THE Church of which all believers belong to.

However, the local assembly (local churches) are supposed to be an important part of a believers life. We as a body are to show live to one another give to one another, share with one another, learn from a teacher, gather together, and sharpen one another as iron sharpens iron. All which can be supported with scripture. If we separate ourselves from a body of believers we are not able to participate in the things that God has called us to do. Forgiveness is learned through interacting with other believers, love is learned, patience, grace etc. Why? Because God uses us as imperfect, human vessels to develope Godly characteristics. How do we learn to forgive when there is no one that sins against us. How to we learn patience unless there is someone to challenge our character. How do we learn to speak with grace unless someone hurts us with actions and words. How do we learn to be King toward one another unless someone challenges our ability to be kind or presents us with an opportunity to be kind.

We have much to learn from one another.