Are Democrats On The Right Side Of The Immigration Issue?

KCfromNC · Apr 10, 2019

mark46 said:
Please post when the Democratic led House passes immigration legislation which is bi-partisan enough to get a hearing in the Senate.

bi-partisan? Senate? Thanks for the laugh.

KCfromNC · Apr 10, 2019

mark46 said:
Posters, analysts, and politicians have criticized Trump for not passing immigration legislation in his first 2 years. These same folks have no criticism of Obama for not passing such legislation.

Really? I see lots of people critical of Obama also upset that Trump didn't get the wall he promised them.

mark46 · Apr 10, 2019

I understand.

Personally, I do NOT believe that the individual mandate provided medical services, nor did taxing medical equipment. NONE of the services of Obamacare were reduced.

With regard to paying for healthcare, that is another issue. We could afford the military increases as well as the tax cut. We can afford paying for medical care. Even now, the issue for Republicans is federal vs. state. When they are forced to come up with a plan, it will included various protections plus moving the monies to the states through block grants. The keys, for me, are the protect for those who have pre-conditions and allowing the states to expend Medicaid. Those were most important elements of ACA. Access to the "everyone" can happen at the state level, through Medicaid.

SimplyMe said:
As was pointed out, it was a repeal of legislation. A better analogy -- there is a house and you attempt to knock down a wall, without any type of plan to do any further work on the house, just remove the wall. You would have me believe that is building/improving the house.

mark46 · Apr 10, 2019

KCfromNC said:
bi-partisan? Senate? Thanks for the laugh.

Are you laughing over the criminal justice law? Over the laws improving the VA?

mark46 · Apr 10, 2019

Yes, any legislation proposed by the other side is a waste of money. That has been the case for centuries.

KCfromNC said:
I don't think the complaint is that he hasn't passed anything. I think the issue is that what he's trying to do is a dumb stunt to waste taxpayer money to pander to his the base.

KCfromNC · Apr 10, 2019

mark46 said:
Are you laughing over the criminal justice law? Over the laws improving the VA?

Nope, but thanks for asking.

KCfromNC · Apr 10, 2019

mark46 said:
Yes, any legislation proposed by the other side is a waste of money. That has been the case for centuries.

I don't see any reason why anyone would believe that your assertion here is true, especially since you're bringing it up out of the blue with zero to back it up.

KCfromNC · Apr 10, 2019

mark46 said:
I understand.

Personally, I do NOT believe that the individual mandate provided medical services, nor did taxing medical equipment. NONE of the services of Obamacare were reduced.

Seems like this is an attempt to confuse the issue by implying that the ACA provided medical services in the first place.

When they are forced to come up with a plan, it will included various protections plus moving the monies to the states through block grants.

I'm not sure why anyone would believe this.

super animator · Apr 10, 2019

mark46 said:
The bill only removed the individual mandates (public and employee) and also the medical device tax. No services were cut in the bill. It was simply a repeal of the "tax" elements of Obamacare.

I was referring to the attempt of replaying ACA entirely here!

FenderTL5 · Apr 10, 2019

IMHO, block grants to the states are a disingenuous, farce of policy.
How it works in theory: The federal Government is currently paying $1000 for XYZ.
Let's stop paying at the federal level, send the state a block grant of $600 and have them figure out the rest.

rjs330 · Apr 11, 2019

hedrick said:
There are, as often, competing goals. I understand from a sense of fairness, treating people who came in illegally the same as those who did it right is unfair. But the consequences of creating a permanent underclass that can't work legally, can't report problems to police, etc, is probably worse than the damage caused by making people legal at a certain point.

This is such a touchy topic that even liberals have been reluctant to create blanket legalization programs. Instead we get things like deportation policies that say we won't actually deport people unless they are criminals. Maybe that's the best we can do at the moment. But if so, these policies shouldn't be abused by counting traffic offenses as causes for deportation. (How a Father Gets Deported for a Traffic Violation). Note that this example occurred under Obama.

The issues aren't new with Trump. He's just tweaking policies to make them more visible and increase the number of people caught up in them. They're the result of the US not being able to come up with a rational set of goals, and so giving DHS discretion to do whatever it wants with undocumented aliens, with "priority" going to criminals.

Hmm... Let's look at this from another angle. There wouldn't be the permanent underclass you mentioned if they weren't here illegally in the first place. We have set a really bad precidence when we tell people "hey you can come here illegally and if you get away with it, then we'll let you stay. There has to be consequences for being here illegally. You have to be willing to accept the risks if you break into the country. Those risks may include the inability to work or call the police if you don't want to be deported. You should be deported if you're here illegally not matter how you got caught or when.

Now that being said, I think a strong law with huge penalties for those hiring illegals would actually do more good. If businesses were scared of being shut down for hiring illegals then we may have a lot fewer illegals because they couldn't find work.

Then we could work on allowing more of them in on work visas.

rjs330 · Apr 11, 2019

inquiring mind said:
The native-born labor problem will miraculously disappear when and only when easy-to-get government handouts are limited. I’m sorry, if you have no skills and no education, then you’re not above menial labor jobs. There’s nothing wrong with working your way up, and educating yourself on the way.

I think there is some real truth there. If Americans were not able to get such a long stretch of unemployment or other welfare benefits then they may take jobs that are available, or attend school. You first have to work before you can work your way up. We Americans are very generous people. We are willing to help people and make it easier for them to help themselves. Paying them to stay home is a bad plan. Paying for daycare so they can attend school? Good plan.

Ringo84 · Apr 11, 2019

Yes. They are right on the issue of immigration.

Any reduction of refugees or asylum seekers is unacceptable.

The Bible said:
Exodus 22:21 – Moses gives God’s law: “You shall not wrong or oppress a resident alien; for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.”

Leviticus 19:33-34 and 24:22 – When the alien resides with you in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

Deuteronomy 6:10-13 – The people of Israel are made aware that the land had come to them as a gift from God and they were to remember that they were once aliens.

Deuteronomy 10:18-19 – “For the Lord your God...loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing. You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.”

Deuteronomy 14:28-29 and 26:12-13 – Tithing was begun, in part, for resident aliens.

Deuteronomy 24:14 – “You shall not withhold the wages of poor and needy laborers, whether other Israelites or aliens who reside in your land...”

Deuteronomy 24:17-18 – “You shall not deprive a resident alien...of justice.”

Deuteronomy 27:19 – “Cursed be anyone who deprives the alien…of justice.”

Jeremiah 7:5-7 – “If you do not oppress the alien…then I will dwell with you in this place…”

Jeremiah 22:3-5 – Do no wrong or violence to the alien.

Ezekiel 47:21-22 – The aliens shall be to you as citizens, and shall also be allotted an inheritance.

Zechariah 7:8-10 – Do no oppress the alien.

Not that the self-professed Christians who run our government care about what the(y think they) Bible says when it comes to things other than abortion or homosexuality.
Ringo

Are Democrats On The Right Side Of The Immigration Issue?

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