What commandments is Jesus talking about?

mkgal1

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Quoting Dr. Michael Brown ~
In a January, 2015 interview in GQ magazine, basketball superstar Kevin Durant talked about his personal spiritual transformation after learning about God’s love from Pastor Carl Lentz.

He explained that he once lived with the fear that, “If I do something wrong, I’m going to hell. I felt like I had to follow the Ten Commandments.”

But,” he continues, “we don’t live by that no more. We live by the blood of Jesus. That’s how I feel.”

Now, I sincerely hope that what he meant was this: “I used to live in constant fear of an angry, vengeful God who was watching my every move, out to get me if I broke a single commandment a single time, with the penalty of hell hanging over me all the time. Now, I realize that Jesus died for my sins and gave me a new heart, so I serve God out of love, not terror.”

Yes, I truly hope that’s what he meant and that he wasn’t saying, “Because Jesus died for me, there’s nothing left for me to do, since God forgives me no matter what.”

Unfortunately, for many professing Christians today, that’s exactly what they mean, and they have forgotten the words of Jesus who said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments,” and, “Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me,” and, “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love” (Jn. 14:15, 21a; 15:10).


His commandments include living holy lives (see, for example the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7) as well as loving one another as he loved us – lofty goals, for sure, but things we are called to, nonetheless. His grace not only forgives us; it empowers us.

This is the consistent testimony of the New Testament: “And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says ‘I know him’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. . . . By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:2-3).

To quote Jesus again, “"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 7:21).

Or, as expressed by Paul, “. . . God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: ‘The Lord knows those who are his,’ and, ‘Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.’” (2 Tim. 2:19)

This does not mean that we are saved by the merit of our good works. Instead, it means that those who are truly saved – those who truly know the Lord; those who are true Christians – are transformed by God and no longer live the way they used to live. And if they profess to be followers of Jesus and offer no evidence of a changed life, their profession of faith is questionable. ~
If We Love Jesus We Will Keep His Commandments
********************************
What I read (and interpret) some posters to be saying is the same as what Kevin Durant said - and I completely agree with Dr. Brown - that I HOPE they don't really mean Because Jesus died for me, there’s nothing left for me to do, since God forgives me no matter what.” but instead mean "I used to live in constant fear of an angry, vengeful God who was watching my every move, out to get me if I broke a single commandment a single time, with the penalty of hell hanging over me all the time. Now, I realize that Jesus died for my sins and gave me a new heart, so I serve God out of love, not terror.”

That's my hope for what I'm reading.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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since God forgives me no matter what.”

To quote Jesus again, “"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 7:21).


This does not mean that we are saved by the merit of our good works. Instead, it means that those who are truly saved – those who truly know the Lord; those who are true Christians – are transformed by God and no longer live the way they used to live. And if they profess to be followers of Jesus and offer no evidence of a changed life, their profession of faith is questionable. ~ If We Love Jesus We Will Keep His Commandments

Yes. BUT as I always say, grace is not a license to sin. Also my question to others here, WHAT is the Father's Will?? Is it different than Yeshua's? He said "I do the Will of my Father"...
 
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mkgal1

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Also my question to others here, WHAT is the Father's Will?? Is it different than Yeshua's? He said "I do the Will of my Father"...
Yes! Excellent question. I'll be anticipating the answer to that. I'd like to park on that one question for now. Maybe that will bring some direction and focus here (see? I have hope.... :D).
 
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BABerean2

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I'm not sure why you're bringing that into the conversation - unless you're directing that towards me as the one "refusing to accept what the Bible says" ???

Why?
Because you cannot seem to let go of the Sinai Covenant.

Are we come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18?
Or, are we come to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24?


Do you keep the 4th commandment?

.
 
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Dkh587

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Why?
Because you cannot seem to let go of the Sinai Covenant.

Are we come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18?
Or, are we come to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24?


Do you keep the 4th commandment?

.

Both covenants are with Israel, not gentiles - since you claim to be a part of the new covenant, thus associating with and claiming to be Israel , do you keep the 4th commandment?
 
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mkgal1

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Why?
Because you cannot seem to let go of the Sinai Covenant.
I don't know how I'm "holding on to" the Sinai Covenant. ?? You're going to have to get more specific than that in your accusations (if it's something that's even possible for me to do).

Are we come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18?
Or, are we come to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24?
I'm not sure what you're trying to point out? You keep "speaking" in biblical quotes (and repeating the same ones) - and that doesn't really bring the conversation any further along.

Obviously we aren't included in v 18 - because we weren't with Moses (and that's what that verse is referring back to).
Do you keep the 4th commandment?
Nope. We've addressed that all ready.

.....and the merry-go-round keeps going 'round and 'round.

What about answering this:

Also my question to others here, WHAT is the Father's Will?? Is it different than Yeshua's? He said "I do the Will of my Father"...
 
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klutedavid

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Quoting Dr. Michael Brown ~
In a January, 2015 interview in GQ magazine, basketball superstar Kevin Durant talked about his personal spiritual transformation after learning about God’s love from Pastor Carl Lentz.

He explained that he once lived with the fear that, “If I do something wrong, I’m going to hell. I felt like I had to follow the Ten Commandments.”

But,” he continues, “we don’t live by that no more. We live by the blood of Jesus. That’s how I feel.”

Now, I sincerely hope that what he meant was this: “I used to live in constant fear of an angry, vengeful God who was watching my every move, out to get me if I broke a single commandment a single time, with the penalty of hell hanging over me all the time. Now, I realize that Jesus died for my sins and gave me a new heart, so I serve God out of love, not terror.”

Yes, I truly hope that’s what he meant and that he wasn’t saying, “Because Jesus died for me, there’s nothing left for me to do, since God forgives me no matter what.”

Unfortunately, for many professing Christians today, that’s exactly what they mean, and they have forgotten the words of Jesus who said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments,” and, “Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me,” and, “If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love” (Jn. 14:15, 21a; 15:10).


His commandments include living holy lives (see, for example the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7) as well as loving one another as he loved us – lofty goals, for sure, but things we are called to, nonetheless. His grace not only forgives us; it empowers us.

This is the consistent testimony of the New Testament: “And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says ‘I know him’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him. . . . By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:2-3).

To quote Jesus again, “"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 7:21).

Or, as expressed by Paul, “. . . God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: ‘The Lord knows those who are his,’ and, ‘Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.’” (2 Tim. 2:19)

This does not mean that we are saved by the merit of our good works. Instead, it means that those who are truly saved – those who truly know the Lord; those who are true Christians – are transformed by God and no longer live the way they used to live. And if they profess to be followers of Jesus and offer no evidence of a changed life, their profession of faith is questionable. ~
If We Love Jesus We Will Keep His Commandments
********************************
What I read (and interpret) some posters to be saying is the same as what Kevin Durant said - and I completely agree with Dr. Brown - that I HOPE they don't really mean Because Jesus died for me, there’s nothing left for me to do, since God forgives me no matter what.” but instead mean "I used to live in constant fear of an angry, vengeful God who was watching my every move, out to get me if I broke a single commandment a single time, with the penalty of hell hanging over me all the time. Now, I realize that Jesus died for my sins and gave me a new heart, so I serve God out of love, not terror.”

That's my hope for what I'm reading.
Do you mean obeying the ten commandments will reflect a holy life?
 
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klutedavid

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Both covenants are with Israel, not gentiles - since you claim to be a part of the new covenant, thus associating with and claiming to be Israel , do you keep the 4th commandment?
God annulled the Mt Sinai covenant between the nation of Israel and Himself, their house was left to them desolate.

God then later annulled the covenant in His blood with the nation of Israel, because they rejected the Christ, they were then grafted out, cutoff from Christ.

So the nation of Israel broke both covenants.

The Gentiles were grafted into the covenant of blood through faith in Jesus and stand only by that faith in the Christ. Gentiles are the recipients of God's kindness, i.e., God's grace.
 
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klutedavid

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Yes. BUT as I always say, grace is not a license to sin. Also my question to others here, WHAT is the Father's Will?? Is it different than Yeshua's? He said "I do the Will of my Father"...
The will of the father is stated below.

John 6:40
For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

You said, 'grace is not a license to sin'.

Everyone sins regardless of what they may declare, in fact if you claim to have no sin you are a liar.

Whether or not grace is a license to sin you will sin anyway, and you will never obey any commandment to the letter.
 
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klutedavid

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And that changes what...murder is against the law.
So is a nasty thought towards someone, both the thought and the act of murder deliver the same outcome: death.

Live according to the law and die through that same law. No one can obey the law and a personal righteousness was not the purpose or the goal of the law. The law delivers the knowledge of sin and death, anyone who dwells on the law should realize that they are evil and deserve rightly to die for their sin.

The law simply announces the need for the messiah, nothing more and nothing less.

The Christ is what the scripture is all about.

John 5:39
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me.

We are justified and sanctified already through and in Jesus Christ, already we are seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

The question is not how do I live a holy life rather we were given the very righteousness of Christ, when we first believed in Jesus.

The Christian life is a life of thankfulness, a life of rejoicing in what Christ did for us.

The alpha and the omega of all doctrine, the Christ first and last. It is not about, 'thou shall not covet', which results in death. We are led by the Holy Spirit in our walk, not the letter of the law.
 
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BABerean2

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What about answering this:

Is the Father's will for us the same as that of His Son?
Can we offer a sacrifice for sin?

We cannot save ourselves.
Only Christ could obey the Father's will to take away all sin, as found in Hebrews 10:16-18.

Are there two separate sets of commandments in John 15:10?
If there are, then the New Covenant and the Sinai Covenant cannot be one and the same.

Was Hebrews 12:18 addressed to the first century Church?


.
 
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ace of hearts

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I don't see where you answered ANY of my questions.

I'd asked:



I take that back. It does seem that you've partially answered one question. So far - you're seeming to state that the Sabbath is done away with (correct? Is that what you're implying?). If so, I agree. It's fulfilled. He is our rest. There's nothing wrong with celebrating feasts and holy days - but we're not under any obligation to do so (is what I believe). Feasts and holy days were shadows pointing to Jesus.

Obviously all the Temple rules and regulations have disappeared (as it states would happen in Hebrews)....what else has vanished? Anything?​
I would ask what part of the law does Jeremiah say would be replaced in 31:31-33? Since there is no specification I would take it as complete replacement. This is exactly what the word "new" means. It's backed up with the self defining verse 32 which happens to be the middle part of the sentence. There can be no change of subject.

Some people here are trying to say that means we can now murder. That is foolishness to try and get a confession we indeed do follow the law. So I counter with JN 13:34 and ask how one can do this and murder? Just gets ignored. Same goes for LK 6:31. Then I get told this is a quote from the law in Lev 19:18 trying to force the issue I'm not following Jesus but the law. But take this in light of JN 13:34 which is definitely not from the law. That too is followed with an oh yeah statement and similar statement from Lev by reference. I never see the requested comparative statement of both passages for some reason.
 
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ace of hearts

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I don't see where you answered ANY of my questions.

I'd asked:



I take that back. It does seem that you've partially answered one question. So far - you're seeming to state that the Sabbath is done away with (correct? Is that what you're implying?). If so, I agree. It's fulfilled. He is our rest. There's nothing wrong with celebrating feasts and holy days - but we're not under any obligation to do so (is what I believe). Feasts and holy days were shadows pointing to Jesus.

Obviously all the Temple rules and regulations have disappeared (as it states would happen in Hebrews)....what else has vanished? Anything?​
I want to revisit this post and ask again about what fulfil means. After this is discussed we can then discuss Mat 5:17-18.
 
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ace of hearts

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I've stated by what law I wish to live by - and I believe it's what God truly wants from all of us (and what's necessary for unity). The law of love. Love God/Love others as I've loved you. Didn't Jesus state that, Himself?

"On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." ~ Matthew 22:36-40


I certainly don't carry it out perfectly - but I do make my best attempts (and am thankful that God is gracious).


If you wish to ignore that instruction - you're going to leave a trail of destruction in your wake (which can be considered "death". Death of relationships - death of trust - death of honor....etc).
What is being attempted here is obligation to the law, not the whole, just partial. Two Apostles contend the whole law or none of the law. James says if you violate one part of the law, you violate all the law.

I refer you again to Jer 31:31-33. He doesn't say part of the law would be replaced. He does indicate something unprecedented would come.
 
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ace of hearts

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It's the fruit of God's love revealed to us.

"We love because He first loved us" ~ 1 John 4:19
Why avoid the context of what I said by posting a single sentence? Keeping the law is never called fruit.
 
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ace of hearts

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I'm not sure what you mean by "work for King David"? He had a relationship with God. King David realized his sin and grieved. David was repeatedly grateful for God's graciousness (that's not changed. God has always been gracious and merciful).

Just because we have the New Covenant doesn't mean there is no more adultery and even murder. There are still consequences from our sin (and we ought to remain cognizant of that fact).
Grace never stops sin. It wasn't intended to. Grace doesn't mean it's OK to sin either.
Please be careful about bringing up the loss of David's and Bathsheba's child. People still lose their children today - and it's not uncommon for the parents to blame themselves for that and agonize over it the rest of their lives.
I wonder why this rabbit trail is even brought up.
I'm not attempting to ignore anything, BABerean. I'm attempting to have a discussion, though. You've posted alongside me enough (I thought) to know that I recognize the temporary nature of the Sinai covenant related to the process of the forgiveness of sins (and how Jesus is "the perfect way"). But what about God's instruction and precepts that are NOT relevant to the Temple? That's what I'm wishing to discuss. We can't say that the ten commandments are to be tossed away.
This is double speak.
Because that's the main issue in this thread - Jesus didn't abolish the Law....He fulfilled it. Verses 21-48 build on what He'd already instructed. You can't build on top of something that's not there.
No that's not the main issue of the thread. Others try to make it that. So far you haven't defined fulfil as requested. You did post what someone said about a phrase.
 
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ace of hearts

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Can you let go of the condescension?

Yes, I know what a yoke is. Would you like to start another thread to talk about it, because I actually find it really interesting (but I'd be going off on a tangent)? Paul talks about how we choose our yoke (we will all be guided by something). Can't we call that a "law we live by"? Something that's guiding and influencing us? Didn't the author of Romans refer to either "being a slave to sin" or a "slave to God"?

Romans 6:20-23 ~ For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness. What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death. But now, having been set free from sin, and having become slaves to God, you have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end is eternal life.

Of course I can read Galatians 4 v 24 - what are you really asking? That verse is addressing the division that was happening in the church of Galatia.
Nice dodge. The verse says something about bondage which is part of the issue we're dealing with.
I've already posted the context of Galatians 4. Paul was addressing something specific (something that I'm not referring to, when I mention "the law" - which is why I've asked for YOU to offer your specific instructions you're referring to - because, otherwise, we are just talking past one another).


We don't. That's between them and God. I don't believe in "convincing someone". I just believe in sharing what I believe - and the rest is up to them and God to carry out.
What a novel idea. I think that's exactly what I'm doing. If one chooses to believe what I do they're said to be convinced.
 
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ace of hearts

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Do you have a comprehension problem? You said: "I'm led by the Holy Spirit, Who doesn't lead me to sin or the law." So are you sinless then?
Are you asking if I practice sin or commit an occasional sin? Are you talking about my soul or my body which isn't subject to the law of God. Rom 8:7
 
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