Flat earth beliefs are totally in error.

Lost4words

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Let's look at two scriptures...

Matthew 14:25 New International Version (NIV)
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake.

Exodus 20:11 New International Version (NIV)

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Which one is not literal and why?

Thats exactly what flat earth believers do! PICK AND CHOOSE!
 
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YHWH_will_uplift

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Thats exactly what flat earth believers do! PICK AND CHOOSE!
You do understand that the word literal is the foundation upon which allegories, figures, metaphors, and idioms are built upon don't you? Therefore if scripture is not talking about the foundation (literal words) then scripture is referring to one or more of the parts of the building (figures, metaphors, allegories, or idioms).
 
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St. Helens

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JacksBratt

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Hey Jack, guess you will say the Israelis are faking this next?

Private mission to attempt Moon landing
We'll have to see.. Looks like, from the pictures in the article.. they have the same arch to the launch...up... then... across... then... down........ and it's taking a long time to get there.. maybe the CGI machine is having software issues or the astronauts are backing out...

Why would you think that this would be any different than any other space program?

With the technology we have today.. they could get Sandra Bullock to ride with them.

Oh.... do you think that Israel will share their secret on how they protect the astro nots from the radiation that NASA cannot seem to solve.. but.. didn't affect them in the 60's and 70's..

Or, does the Van Allen belt not affect Israel?
 
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Hawkins

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My interest is in the interface between science and religion. For me there is no differentiation, science is one of God's gifts and we need to use it wisely. I wanted to join in on a thread on this subject, but there are so many that I am starting my own.
To begin, there is no way in the reality of our physical observation of the earth it cannot be a sphere. Anyone who argues against that are ignorant. No disrespect there, we are all ignorant when we do not know about something.
God gave us the gift of science, and science is telling us that the earth is a sphere.
This argument must be shelved,, unless God encourages us to continue it.

That actually depends what assumptions have to be made.

Science relies on its predictability to confirm a truth. Satan is trying hard to twist this to re-define the term "science" in order to deceive even the most intelligent human scientists.

We can confirm that the earth is a sphere by the orbital behavior of stars inside our solar system. This behavior is 1) repeatable, 2) predictable. We can thus repeatedly and infallibly predict how each star moving following its orbital behavior. We can tell with no mistake its position today but next year.

The true nature of science is relying on the fact that humans don't have the capability to tell a future. If however a theory at hand can tell exactly what a future is, we thus can conclude with certainty that this theory holds the truth. So if our theory about the stars' orbital behavior has the power to predict how it repeats, and to predict without a single mistake, we can thus conclude that the theory we are having at hand can confirm a scientific truth (that our earth is a sphere).

This however is not without assumptions. The primary assumption is that our earth is a sphere as viewed inside our 3D environment. It's still possible to be "flat" when viewed from a high concept of multiple dimensions. "Viewing from our own space" is actually a paradigm within which our theory works.

That is to say, when one is working on another paradigm, he can well get to the conclusion that earth is flat. This paradigm however is unreachable to humans even when exists.
 
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JacksBratt

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We can confirm that the earth is sphere by the orbital behavior of stars inside our solar system. This behavior is 1) repeatable, 2) predictable. We can thus repeated and infallibly predict how each star moving following its orbital behavior. We can tell with no mistake its position today but next year.
Which also works for the movement of the stars in a firmament as the bible describes.

The true nature of science is relying on the fact that humans don't have the capability to tell a future. If however a theory at hand can tell exactly what a future is, we thus can conclude with certainty that this theory holds the truth. So if our theory about the stars' orbital behavior has the power to predict how it repeats, and to predict without a single mistake, we can thus conclude that the theory we are having at hand can confirm a scientific truth (that our earth is a sphere).
Again, works with the stars and heavenly lights, if they are in a firmament, as the bible describes.

This however is not without assumptions. The primary assumption is that our earth is a sphere as viewed inside our 3D environment. It's still possible to be "flat" when viewed from a high concept of multiple dimensions. "Viewing from our own space" is actually a paradigm within which our theory works.

And the fact that after 1000's of years of an earth that orbits a sun which is moving in the galaxy and all tolled we are moving a millions of miles per hour...BUT.. the constellations, made up of stars which are at varying distances of many light years from our vantage point.... have remained rock solid and in position without moving...

Science would conclude that as we move, our angle of view, would change.. for some it would change a lot... for others not as much... but.. it would change and the constellations seen today should not be the same as they were 100's and 1000's of years in the past.... and for decades, centuries and millennia of the future.
 
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Hawkins

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Which also works for the movement of the stars in a firmament as the bible describes.

Again, works with the stars and heavenly lights, if they are in a firmament, as the bible describes.

And the fact that after 1000's of years of an earth that orbits a sun which is moving in the galaxy and all tolled we are moving a millions of miles per hour...BUT.. the constellations, made up of stars which are at varying distances of many light years from our vantage point.... have remained rock solid and in position without moving...

Science would conclude that as we move, our angle of view, would change.. for some it would change a lot... for others not as much... but.. it would change and the constellations seen today should not be the same as they were 100's and 1000's of years in the past.... and for decades, centuries and millennia of the future.

Firmament is more about how our atmosphere was created.

Science is about how a phenomenon repeats itself from now to the future predictably. Science doesn't retain the same accuracy when one applies it to the past, including the Big Bang Theory. BBT is just to provide the best we can conclude based on what we can reach. It's not equivalent to a confirmable (and repeatable) scientific truth. That's actually there are other theories co-exist with the BBT.
 
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Oldmantook

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I did, for many hours and after that, I still from time to time watch some videos of Flath earthers, just for fun (like some kind of sci-fi).


Do few mouse clicks and see that such model does not work :)

1. Regarding day and night, the author of the video asks how is it possible that the light from the sun shines on one-half of the flat earth and not reach the other half? He has committed an a priori assumption thinking that day and night can never converge at the same place at the same time. That is not so. For an explanation, rather than paste the link, just type "Day and night side by side on a flat earth" in Youtube search.
2. Same thing with the seasons as the author mistakenly presumes that the seasons on the flat earth model are based upon the distance of the sun from the earth; i.e., higher in the Winter and closer in the Summer. If you bothered to read my explanation I already wrote that the sun is close and small and circles around and above the flat earth in a spiral pattern on the Tropic of Cancer in the Northern Summer months, and then down to the Tropic of Capricorn in the Northern Winter Months. So when the sun is further away from the North Pole, it’s winter in the north and summer in the south. Seasons are not function of the suns' distance from the earth. The author did not even bother to find out how the flat earth works and instead proposed his own superficial, not to mention false analysis.
3. Regarding the coriolis effect, the fact is not all storms consistently rotate clockwise in the N. Hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the S. Hemisphere.
4. Regarding the stars, I've seen various explanations including the hypothesis that the firmament/dome creates distortion that accounts for why the stars appear differently in the Southern and Northern hemispheres. I'm not particularly convinced of that explanation though since I haven't done enough study in that area.
5. Regarding eclipses, flat earthers as far as I can tell don't have any adequate explanation and can only speculate but that does not by default make the heliocentric model the only single explanation. For the example the ancient Mayans were skilled in mathematics and their observations of the stars were surprisingly accurate including their predictions of solar eclipses - yet they believed in a flat, stationary earth. Unfortunately their ancient working knowledge of astronomical observances/calculation is lost to us today.

The point of the above is that there are plausible explanations in support of the geocentric model but the most damning evidence against the heliocentric model in my opinion is that Scripture never describes creation in terms approximating the heliocentric model. The earth in Scripture is always described as flat and stationary with the moving sun and moon, each having their own light, together with the stars placed in the firmament.
 
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A_Thinker

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And the fact that after 1000's of years of an earth that orbits a sun which is moving in the galaxy and all tolled we are moving a millions of miles per hour...BUT.. the constellations, made up of stars which are at varying distances of many light years from our vantage point.... have remained rock solid and in position without moving...
Once again .... the stars have changed position.

Polaris was not the North Pole star 3,000 years ago ...
 
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A_Thinker

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Let's look at two scriptures...

Matthew 14:25 New International Version (NIV)
25 Shortly before dawn Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake.

Exodus 20:11 New International Version (NIV)

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Which one is not literal and why?
The disciples witnessed ... and recorded Christ walking across the water, .... while the scriptures, themselves, say that a day with the Lord is as a thousand years ...
 
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JacksBratt

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The disciples witnessed ... and recorded Christ walking across the water, .... while the scriptures, themselves, say that a day with the Lord is as a thousand years ...
Thank you for your reasoning...

My argument is that the disciples witnessed it while God dictated the creation to Moses...
Also... there may be a verse that a day with the Lord is a thousand years.. however, the Genesis account reinforces "there was evening, there was morning" for each of the days. To me, IMO, that trumps the thousand day concept.


Both scriptures describe supernatural events... People will only accept supernatural events that contradict science.... due to the fact that it is paramount to the salvation of their soul. Discount any of the miracles in the life of Christ and you are in danger of denial of Christ, who saved your soul.
 
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JacksBratt

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yeshuaslavejeff

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Is it your contention that the world was better fed in times past ???...
It is that before the air and food and water supply was altered, polluted, contaminated and corrupted on purpose and otherwise, it was better.
 
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JacksBratt

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1. Regarding day and night, the author of the video asks how is it possible that the light from the sun shines on one-half of the flat earth and not reach the other half? He has committed an a priori assumption thinking that day and night can never converge at the same place at the same time. That is not so. For an explanation, rather than paste the link, just type "Day and night side by side on a flat earth" in Youtube search.
2. Same thing with the seasons as the author mistakenly presumes that the seasons on the flat earth model are based upon the distance of the sun from the earth; i.e., higher in the Winter and closer in the Summer. If you bothered to read my explanation I already wrote that the sun is close and small and circles around and above the flat earth in a spiral pattern on the Tropic of Cancer in the Northern Summer months, and then down to the Tropic of Capricorn in the Northern Winter Months. So when the sun is further away from the North Pole, it’s winter in the north and summer in the south. Seasons are not function of the suns' distance from the earth. The author did not even bother to find out how the flat earth works and instead proposed his own superficial, not to mention false analysis.
3. Regarding the coriolis effect, the fact is not all storms consistently rotate clockwise in the N. Hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the S. Hemisphere.
4. Regarding the stars, I've seen various explanations including the hypothesis that the firmament/dome creates distortion that accounts for why the stars appear differently in the Southern and Northern hemispheres. I'm not particularly convinced of that explanation though since I haven't done enough study in that area.
5. Regarding eclipses, flat earthers as far as I can tell don't have any adequate explanation and can only speculate but that does not by default make the heliocentric model the only single explanation. For the example the ancient Mayans were skilled in mathematics and their observations of the stars were surprisingly accurate including their predictions of solar eclipses - yet they believed in a flat, stationary earth. Unfortunately their ancient working knowledge of astronomical observances/calculation is lost to us today.

The point of the above is that there are plausible explanations in support of the geocentric model but the most damning evidence against the heliocentric model in my opinion is that Scripture never describes creation in terms approximating the heliocentric model. The earth in Scripture is always described as flat and stationary with the moving sun and moon, each having their own light, together with the stars placed in the firmament.
If I may.... a comment on "Coriolis".

I have watched several videos, created by military marksmen and others who are experts in ballistics and fire arms, in conjunction with long range accuracy. One even talks about the longest sniper kill on record.


These men will mention:
Elevation,
Altitude,
Humidity,
Air Temperature,
Ammunition temperature,
Bore caliber,
Rifle rotations per inch
Wind,
Barometric pressure...
and other variables that are things that determine success.

NOT ONCE.. did they ever mention the sacred Coriolis.

I did find one vid where a random guy discusses it..

However, since the earth rotates west to east... A shot directly west or east would need no compensation.

Any shot south or north would be affected the most..

Any shot at any varying degree between North and south would need at least 180 different calculations as to the compensation that would be necessary...

However, as I said... only in one vid did I see any mention and it had nothing to do with 23 degrees compared to 39 degrees...

It's a school book farce. Not a reality.
 
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A_Thinker

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If I may.... a comment on "Coriolis".

I have watched several videos, created by military marksmen and others who are experts in ballistics and fire arms, in conjunction with long range accuracy. One even talks about the longest sniper kill on record.


These men will mention:
Elevation,
Altitude,
Humidity,
Air Temperature,
Ammunition temperature,
Bore caliber,
Rifle rotations per inch
Wind,
Barometric pressure...
and other variables that are things that determine success.

NOT ONCE.. did they ever mention the sacred Coriolis.

I did find one vid where a random guy discusses it..

However, since the earth rotates west to east... A shot directly west or east would need no compensation.

Any shot south or north would be affected the most..

Any shot at any varying degree between North and south would need at least 180 different calculations as to the compensation that would be necessary...

However, as I said... only in one vid did I see any mention and it had nothing to do with 23 degrees compared to 39 degrees...

It's a school book farce. Not a reality.
The big point with the Coriolis Effect is that storms rotate in opposite directions in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres.
 
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A_Thinker

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Then... I refer you to post # 432... Love to hear your view.

Also....If you are going to "leave it to others"... Why then, start a thread making a statement as you have here:
Flat earth beliefs are total are totally in error
I cannot find post 432.
I started this thread because I am old, confused, but entitled to my opinion. I respect the opinion of flat earthers but they are wrong. Apologies for my error when typing the title.
Thank you for your prayers, I too pray for everyone, even the very wicked ones. It was never my intention to challenge anyone. I did not know that flat earthers were so sensitive. I have learnt a lot about the flat earth idea in this thread, but also the counter-arguments. I believe God is guiding me to the truth here as my opinion is being fortified. Many thanks to all, those for and those against a flat earth. I will try to study the Scriptures quoted with an open heart, even if my mind is closed. As I have already said, we must all humble ourselves before God.
 
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